Query: One black snake vs. another

So, I currently have rather a lot of ball pythons, and not looking to get another snake anytime soon, but eventually would like to own one of the larger black species. I've been fascinated by Indigos since I read about them in Ranger Rick when I was six or seven. Also used to catch quite a lot of Black Rats, Eastern Kings, and Black Racers growing up in the Appalachian mountains.

From what I understand, Eastern Indigos require permits to keep due to their threatened status in the wild, whereas other species do not, and some get larger than others.

I'd like a big gorgeous shiny black snake that's easy to handle. The banded kings and stuff are pretty in their own right, but I really like the solid black.

So...what are the various species I should be researching? What can I expect for adult sizes, and what would be the approximate price ranges from a reputable breeder?

Black milk snakes are totaly awsome snakes if you are looking for a larger black snake. They avg 6-7' are real easy going animals also. only down side if its take about 1-2 years of there life to turn totaly black they start out banded.

Three words: Mexican Black King. They're completely black and inexpensive. I believe they stay at 3-5 feet like most king snakes, so probably an adult cage size would be between a 32 and 41 quart tub, or between a 20long-30 gallon tank.

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Originally Posted by Python-77

Black milk snakes are totaly awsome snakes if you are looking for a larger black snake. They avg 6-7' are real easy going animals also. only down side if its take about 1-2 years of there life to turn totaly black they start out banded.

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Ditto that. And the San Antonio Zoo stock animals tend to get bigger & blacker than the Bell line animals. But a FANTASTIC species to keep!!! :D

Thanks for the input.

Mexican Blacks sound perfect, but of course that doesn't eliminate the romance of my long adoration of the Indigo, LOL.

Any experience with Indigos, as far as handleability/calmness? Do they make a decent pet?

Someday I think I'd like to have a big pretty well-lit decorated cage, and of course the balls are totally inappropriate for that. Would any of these species be more inclined to spend more time out of their hides and hanging about decoratively, while still being amenable to being held on a regular basis?

From what I've heard of indigos.. they are quite intelligent as far as snakes go and make very good captive snakes.

I have a mex black king.. they don't get as big as some other kings (3-4' I think is average) but they are solid black and very beautiful. Mine has a face like a little dinosaur. lol

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Originally Posted by slartibartfast

Mexican Blacks sound perfect, but of course that doesn't eliminate the romance of my long adoration of the Indigo, LOL.

Any experience with Indigos, as far as handleability/calmness? Do they make a decent pet?

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I have a LOT of admiration for Indigos. They're very intelligent, could probably take on any other N. American snake, and are pretty docile. They shouldn't be kept in a glass cage as they will kill their prey by smacking it around and can break the glass. Also, they're notorious for having explosive, runny, messy, and frequent bowel movements. If it wasn't for that last one, I'd probably consider keeping them.

But speaking of black snakes, I have a pair of Black Milks and couldn't be happier. They're just over a year old and one is about 70% black and the other is about 85% black. Voracious eaters, but they've never so much as hissed at me.

as a display snake my mexican black is awesome! she always sits out in the open or burrows under the aspen, sticking her head out to look around.


she started out as a nervous snake always trying to slither away and musking people but now she loves chilling in in my hand while i do anything around the house...

shes great!

The Mexican Blacks are great snakes.

Another to consider is the Black Pine Snake. They are shiny as well, and very pretty.

I have a Black Rat and love her. She doesn't have the SHINE that the Kings and Milks have, but there is just something about her that I love.

Oh, and most Kings and Milks max out at 5 ft, and this is not too common. They take several years to reach this length. I have only seen a few that actaully made it over 4 1/2 feet. Most people exagerate the length of their snake, or they are just over estimating.

Pines and Black Rats, however, routinely reach 5 feet or more. Legitimate 6 feet is not all that uncommon for these snakes.

Pines will hiss and puff, but this is generally just a show and usually calm down once outside thier enclosure. However, I would make a snake stick to take them out once they reach 4 feet just to be sure when taking them out.

Black Rats are a gamble. If you routinely handle them, they should grow up quite tame. I have come across a few that were down right nasty, though. Mine is tame as a kitten.

Hope this helps. Any of these will make beautiful pets, though the Black Rat is the least attractive of them (I still love em, though).

My advice for low cost, good attitude, no permet and big are a few

1. Black Milk Snake - They easily top six feet and are gentle and cost under a hundred bucks at any reptile show. They also breed easy and you get to watch their color change. Here is a beautiful one with a happy young herper,

http://www.jackspirko.com/images/snakes/blackmilk.jpg

Next would be a Black Pine, they often get close to seven feet, are shining black gems and even the hissy ones seldom actually bite. Here is a shot that shows the girth these guys get.

http://www.jackspirko.com/images/sna...kpinesnake.JPG

Now if you want a snake that is mostly black and just like an Indigo, gets ever loving huge but does not require a permit to own think Yellow Tail Cribo This is really an indigo of a different color and comes from south america. Expect to pay 2-300 for a captive bred one but it is worth it. Wild ones generaly bite and do a damn good job of drawing blood once they get big. As you can see in this shot they get very big.

http://www.jackspirko.com/images/sna...wtailcribo.jpg

Black rats are cool and get nice and big too. Over all based on what you want a Black Milk probally fits the bill best.

Here is a shot of a nice black rat

http://www.jackspirko.com/images/snakes/blackrat2.JPG

The deal with them as you can see is they don't usually end up solid black, most tend to show some pattern even once mature,

That black milk snake picture is the sort of heart-stopping beauty that I'm looking for. Thanks so much for sharing it!

As far as the cribo, it's cool and all but too much yellow :-P. I'm not worried about the cost/permit of an Indigo at this point...it's far enough in the future that I've got plenty of time to work out the details. I was looking more for info on their personalities and daytime activity level, since I'd like a display snake who will sometimes do *something* other than just sleep in its hide (although if they decide to do that too, that's okay).

I tend to read obssessively on whatever I'm researching before I make the plunge, and this query is part of that information-gathering process.

All cribos (Indigos are cribos) are awesome snakes. They have so much personality. Far more like lizards rather then most snakes. They are active all the times so that fits your needs.

The problem is the crap, they crap more then they eat and I am not kidding. They eat on average like three times a week so consider cleaning an almost daily chore. If you are ok with that it is hard to do better.

On the milk yes they are stunning but more like typical milk/king/corn/bulls in that they hide a lot and are most active at night.

Yet they are hard to beat. So easy to care for, attitude is gentle like a baby lamb. You really have to mess up bad to not keep one doing well. Cribos take more work, more maintaince and sometimes even docile animals just want to be put down and bite. Most such bites are not that bad but one that is mad can really give it to you.

Back to the milks I have NEVER seen one bite in anger, only SFEs (stupid feeding errors).

Also in this thread some have said milks don't get much over five feet. That cute little girl in the pic is 49 inches tall so you do the math,

We just got a pretty young black mexican king, and black milk at school. The milk we have its still VERY banded. We also have several black rat snakes. I have only had the black mexican king's tub open a few times, but he has gone totally defensive on me every time. He raises up and strikes, but doesnt actually try to bite, he just strikes sorta at me and bumps into me. I would like to add that it hasn't been handled much yet, so thats probably a big part of it. The milk is only interested in getting away, no agression at all that i have seen. The adult black rats have all been fine for me, but one of them has bit a person or two from what i hear. Of the two baby black rats (clutch mates) we have one is very sweet and one is an absolute terror. They are both housed in the same conditions, handled about the same amount, but they still have totally different personalities (which backs up the statement about the black rats being a gamble). Also if you're after a really solid black snake, they're probably not your best choice since they do tend to have that paterning that stays with them (all of ours still have some pattern on them). We have some other black kings (not sure of where they're from) that are pretty friendly, and one that can be real pain. It has struck at me and hit the glass in its encloser more times than i can count, but once you get it out, it calms right down. Over all, they seem to be pretty good natured. We have a northern pine, and the earlier comment about their temperment pretty well fits how ours is, it'll hiss and act all bad, but hasn't ever made any effort to actually bite. I'll try to remember to post pics of some of these guys tomorrow (especially the young black milk).

I wont be able to post those pics today. The guy i get the key from wasn't in today, and i wasnt able to get in there to take the pics. Sorry.

That Milk and Pine are stunning!

Hmmm, I may need to add one of those to my collection :carrot:

More pics of that MILK!