Frustrated..I need help...

Ok, I've been trying my best at setting up a ball python hatchling cage and I'm having all the worst luck and I need some advice.
I have a 20 long with a meshtop (taped with foil to keep in humidity) with a Flukers heat mat (the only kind I can get ahold of that is any good) and a thermostat with that, a heat lamp with a 75 watt bulb a a human heat pad I was trying to use to add a little extra heat, a temp gun and a hygrometer. I can not return any of this and I spent a fortune on it so if we can work with this stuff I'd be so happy.
Anyway, I can not keep heat nor humitity up in this cage. I have the heat mat taped to the bottom but it does not tape very tighly against the cage so the temp varies a little in different spots on the mat. Also I was using paper towels as substrate but the temp is different by up several degrees under an over just one sheet of paper towel! If I use two sheets I end up with 90*F on top of the paper towels and 96-97*F on under them. I know BPs like to burrow under substrat so how do I keep temps good above the substrat without risking burning them if they go beneath? Also the temps seem to drop instantly by 10 degrees off the mat and barely effect the opposite side. So I added a heat lamp in the middle which works well there but the opposite end of the cage stays at 73*-75* and I tried using a human heat pad, but it is getting too hot and if I plug it into the thermostat it won't work becaue the thermostat's probe is on the other side controlling the heat mat. I'd prefer not to use a human heat pad any way. Also, because of the heat lamp the humidity drops to 40% even with a water bowl in there. If I mist the tank it goes to 55% but drops quickly everytime I open the cage.
Also I just dropped the end of my temp gun in the water bowl and now it is not working correctly, do any of you know how to fix it? It is a PE-mini, is there anything I can do apart from buying a new one? They are so expensive too!
I already e-mailed Matt from MGreptiles and he recommended two sheets of flexwatt and two thermostates, but I don't think I can afford that considering I should only need that much extra heating for 2-3 months. I also don't trust flexwatt very much. I spent so much on this set-up and I need to save some to actually buy the BP, so any afforable suggestions? I'm at my witts end with all this.
I wa shoping to get a BP by this weekend, but I'm thinking that probably won't happen.::cries::

EDIT: By the way, the temp in the room the cage is in is 71 degrees. I can't do much about that because it is winter and heating expenses are crazy.

Get an oil-filled heater to go in your room. There are models that have built in thermostats. They aren't awesome thermostats, but it will help. You can get one for ~$40.00 at Wal-Mart. Set it up close to your tank. That should eliminate the need for the heat lamp and the low humidity.

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Originally Posted by Rapture

Get an oil-filled heater to go in your room. There are models that have built in thermostats. They aren't awesome thermostats, but it will help. You can get one for ~$40.00 at Wal-Mart. Set it up close to your tank. That should eliminate the need for the heat lamp and the low humidity.

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I would but I'm terrified something like that would cause a fire. How safe is it?

ADIT: ALso, what about the substrat issue?

How long were you letting it sit to measure the temps? I can't imagine one piece of paper towel would stop that much heat.

OK 20 long, heat mat with thermostat, 75 watt heat lamp, human heating pad.

Heat mat with thermostat on one end on the bottom glass. With a thermostat your temps should not go beyond 94 on the glass, so to insure that the entire mat is flush you can use little rubber feet stuck to the bottom of the mat (pick up at any hardware shop)

Heat lamp on top at the other end (not in the middle). Insure that the foil is good and well sealed. Create an opening that is smaller than the lamp's cover but big enough that the bulb does not touch any tape or screen. 3" diameter should be big enough.

Stretch the human heat pad across the back (but not touching the glass directly) You are just using this to create ambient warmth.

To add humidity to the tank get a heavy bowl and put a large sponge in it(one that will fill it nicely) fill the bowl with water and let the sponge soak up the water, then add more water until about 1/4 inch of water is left standing in the bowl. PLACE this directly under the heat lamp. You should notice an increase of at least 10% with this method. Make sure that this is a second water bowl -- the snake still needs fresh water to drink from another primary water bowl (without a sponge.)

give this a try and lets see what happens.

Thanks so much for the advice guys, I really appreciate it.

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How long were you letting it sit to measure the temps?

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Well, before I screwed up my temp gun I was putting it on top of the paper towel and then immediately under it in several different spots with the same result. I thought it was insane too but I don't know how tha tis happening.

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Heat lamp on top at the other end (not in the middle). Insure that the foil is good and well sealed. Create an opening that is smaller than the lamp's cover but big enough that the bulb does not touch any tape or screen. 3" diameter should be big enough.

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I did have it on the other end (before adding the human heat pad) and I had a temp pattern like this 90-80-75-77. and with it in the middle I'm getting temps like this 91-85-78-73. Would it still be better to have it on the end with the human heat mad (Btw, I forgot to mention it's size, 12" by 12" I think) or leave it in the middle?
I'm thinking about doing what Matt said with two mats and and two t-stats, but if I do that I'll have to dip into my savings to actually buy the snake and it'd take longer too. I'll keep trying with this for now.

On the bright side the temp gun guy said my temp gun should dry out and be fine.
Againt thanks for all your help.

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Originally Posted by Shadow

90-80-75-77.

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That is not bad for a 20 long. For winter time 77 is not too low. Just don't go above 94 on the hot side glass.

The humidity needs to be above 45%. If it hovers around 49% that is ok except when your snake is shedding. I used to panic when my humidity went below 50%, but I was reasured by the group that at 49% it was ok. Over 70% is just as bad as below 40%. It is nice to keep it in the 50s.

Also when you know that you are going to open up the cage just make sure to spray some water on the sides of the tank. I would not spray on the substrate as that could get moldy.

Good luck.

Oil filled heaters are one of the safest only most are 1500 watts which can use up a whole 15 amp breaker itself and trip it! I got a small under desk oil filled heaters they are only 400 watts which my herstat pro can control (or any avereage t-stat) and they are thin and out of the way. Made for under your desk. They have them at www.air-n-water.com . I have one in each snake room and they are controled perfectly!

I moved my lamp and added the heat mat on back and my temps dropped. I went out to see if I could find another heat mat or t-stat or r-stat or even a good lamp dimmer of the cool side, I found mats but nothing else. I found a couple lamp dimmers but they only had like on-dim-off and nightlight-med.-regular-off. So I'm still stuck. I need to win the lottery, then I'd send my butler to fetch these things, lol.

I have the oil filled heater + some others. They all work great just keep them away from things that easily catch fire and you should be fine. As far as the humidity goes I tried something that seems to work for me. I covered about 70% of the top with wet and warm paper towels (keep away from the light source if you use one). Then I cover that with something hard like plastic or w/e. It seems to keep humidity well and all I have to do is spray water on the paper towels a couple times a day or until they dry out then replace when needed.

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Originally Posted by Shadow

I moved my lamp and added the heat mat on back and my temps dropped. I went out to see if I could find another heat mat or t-stat or r-stat or even a good lamp dimmer of the cool side, I found mats but nothing else. I found a couple lamp dimmers but they only had like on-dim-off and nightlight-med.-regular-off. So I'm still stuck. I need to win the lottery, then I'd send my butler to fetch these things, lol.

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Here is an idea. It is winter now. By the time your snake gets big enough to need a 20 long tank it will be next winter. I would suggest that you get a small tub with lid. You will be able to control the temps and humidity throughout the whole winter with what you have now.

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I have the oil filled heater + some others. They all work great just keep them away from things that easily catch fire and you should be fine. As far as the humidity goes I tried something that seems to work for me. I covered about 70% of the top with wet and warm paper towels (keep away from the light source if you use one). Then I cover that with something hard like plastic or w/e. It seems to keep humidity well and all I have to do is spray water on the paper towels a couple times a day or until they dry out then replace when needed.

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I'd going to check a couple more pet stores for some kind of t-sstat and then I'll check into the heaters. I'll also keep them in mind if my collection grows because I have a room that I could turn into a herp room.

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Here is an idea. It is winter now. By the time your snake gets big enough to need a 20 long tank it will be next winter. I would suggest that you get a small tub with lid. You will be able to control the temps and humidity throughout the whole winter with what you have now.Yesterday 06:42 PM

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I was thinking about that and I might have to do that if nothing else works.

The oil filled/electric heater I use to bump the ambients in our snake room has two switches...one is 900 watts, the other is 600 watts...so I can use one or the other (but not both) to get the temps I want without tripping fuses. It's from WalMart and retails for just under $40.00.

Personally I'd give up on the 20 long glass tank and go right to a tub at least for this winter. Why continue to fuss with it when you can have a tub setup, running perfectly and a snake settling in with barely any expense or time involved. You should be able to find an appropriate Sterlite, Rubbermaid or even better an Iris brand at most any store for well under $10.00 (Iris are harder to find...I get mine from Office Max...slightly more costly but a far superior quality). With the smaller tub, a few vents holes I bet your loss of heat and humidity issues will disappear in no time.

With tubs you just have to make sure you melt or drill in vent holes and secure the lid if it has any give (most do and anything over 1/8 inch can allow your snake to escape). Large black binder clips are great for this and cheap as dirt.

Easy as pie young BP setup....runs like a dream...takes no time at all to organize and cleaning is simple as it can be....the snakes love it, I love it....it's all good! :)

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e2...MuirnesTub.jpg

I haven't had time today to go out and buy anything yet. I still wanted to go over the substrate thing, because no matter what I do it is going to be a problem. I've found with paper towels that not only do they block 6-7 degrees of heat they were building heat underneath slowly. It was good for the cold side warming it up, but was reaching up to a deadly 101* under the paper towel on the warm side (which quickly dropped back to 94 degrees after removing the papertowel for a minute) . I tested this several times with the same result. I'm trying regular writing paper with lots of little slits and so far I am getting better results about a 2-4 degree differences below and above. I'm not sure how absorbent It'd be though. I can't use newpaper because no one on this street gets a paper delivered (our newspaper are not great obviously) so I have none. So I'm going to have to have a trail and eror session to fix this, but I'm imagining thin substrate with lots of ventilation will have to be the way to go. That or really heavy substrat a bp could not move and I high temp underneath. What a pain. Does anyone else have this problem or am I just that kind of unlucky person?
Maybe I'm just going overboard, I temp test ever inch (just about) of the cage floor and because flukers heat mats have to be taped on in is tighter against the glass in some places more than other so I get slightly different temos in the different spots. If I had a thermometer I would not notice this at all because I'd get one read out on one side and one on the otehr and go by that. If an ich or so is too hot (lets say 96*F) but the area around it is not is it ok? Should I stop being such a perfectionist?

Well you can get too fixated LOL. If you're concerned about this try grabbing a bag of fine aspen from WalMart. It's about $3.99 and is very compressed so one small bag lasts a long time with only one snake. Once in awhile just finger fluff the aspen (make it a part of your cleaning routine) as it does tend to compress inside the hides where the heavy bodied BP is laying on it most often. Fluffing it up lets heat come through more efficiently. If your BP has two appropriate and identical hides it's not likely it will burrow in the aspen (at least none of mine ever did it much when I used aspen). Just put a nice layer down, not overly deep but just deep enough to provide nice cover and comfort for the snake but not 8 inches deep or anything like that.

Ok, I was brainstorming all day and I think I came up with a good solution. I put a second heat mat (that will have to be controlled by a Rheostat for now) under the side with the lamp. I'll drop the heat of the other side until both sides are arounf 80-85 on top of the paper towels and no more than 94 under. Then I attached the heat lamp to another Rheostat and will use it to create the actual basking spot of 90-94. That way heat can not build up under the paper towel. So far so good with this techniqe.:D