Zoo-Med UTH not enough heat?

Hi all, this is my first post here :)

I recently got a male BP 4 days ago, and I'm having trouble figuring out the heating aspect of things. I've got a zoo-med UTH under one side of the tank, and an overhead red heat bulb up top. I'm having a really tough time keeping temps up, while still keeping acceptable humidity. I've got about 80% of the top of the glass tank covered in 3 layers of tin foil, and packing tape on top to seal it up. There's a square cut out where the heat lamp is, as well. Looks pretty similar to the glass tank setup in the sticky thread.

I've also made the homemade humidifier, and it's doing it's job to an extent - raising the humidity to 52% on the cool side, which is currently sitting at around 78-80 degrees. I know this is a bit low, but if i put another light on the cool side turned down to the lowest, it heats up to about 85 degrees and sucks the humidity right back out of the tank.

Now, unfortunately, the only place I can put the tank is up in my room, in which ambient temps can get around 66 degrees when its below freezing outside.

I've got a zoo-med UTH on one side of the tank, but i can't see how this could possibly warm the entire tank up. It's hot and all, but the surface of the inside is warm at best. Could my substrate be too thick? Does newspaper-only bottoms heat better than thicker substrate? (it's 1" thick approximately.)

If i could get it to where i used only the UTH, i would imagine keeping the humidity at acceptable levels would be much easier. Or should i just scrap the glass tank in favor of a tub?

Also, I have a Herpstat ND thermostat in-transit being shipped here. Should I invest in flexwatt instead of this seemingly-useless zoo-med UTH?

Thanks! And by the way, this is a great site, I love it! :)

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Originally Posted by ntrent1

Hi all, this is my first post here :)

I recently got a male BP 4 days ago, and I'm having trouble figuring out the heating aspect of things. I've got a zoo-med UTH under one side of the tank, and an overhead red heat bulb up top. I'm having a really tough time keeping temps up, while still keeping acceptable humidity. I've got about 80% of the top of the glass tank covered in 3 layers of tin foil, and packing tape on top to seal it up. There's a square cut out where the heat lamp is, as well. Looks pretty similar to the glass tank setup in the sticky thread.

I've also made the homemade humidifier, and it's doing it's job to an extent - raising the humidity to 52% on the cool side, which is currently sitting at around 78-80 degrees. I know this is a bit low, but if i put another light on the cool side turned down to the lowest, it heats up to about 85 degrees and sucks the humidity right back out of the tank.

Now, unfortunately, the only place I can put the tank is up in my room, in which ambient temps can get around 66 degrees when its below freezing outside.

I've got a zoo-med UTH on one side of the tank, but i can't see how this could possibly warm the entire tank up. It's hot and all, but the surface of the inside is warm at best. Could my substrate be too thick? Does newspaper-only bottoms heat better than thicker substrate? (it's 1" thick approximately.)

If i could get it to where i used only the UTH, i would imagine keeping the humidity at acceptable levels would be much easier. Or should i just scrap the glass tank in favor of a tub?

Also, I have a Herpstat ND thermostat in-transit being shipped here. Should I invest in flexwatt instead of this seemingly-useless zoo-med UTH?

Thanks! And by the way, this is a great site, I love it! :)

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First off Welcome to the group :) .Now how big of a tank are you using? Now take that Zoo med undertank i wish i was a real heat source back to the store and buy a Exo-terra UTH.Now the correct size varies on the size of the tank you are placing it on.Next your overhead light is and will always dry up your humidity.I use newspapers for the substrate and the snake hides under it on the heat source and of course they are controled bt Tstats.The UTH will not heatup your whole tank just the area above it.

Hmmm....Could i use flexwatt instead? 32"X14"X18" is the dimensions of the tank - 35-40 gallon i think? I'm not totally sure.

Ok, i'll take that so called heater back :) I didn't think it was doing much, anyway. Also- can thick substrate hinder the use of the uth? i think i'm gonna replace it with newspaper....

Now, one more question...If the UTH only heats the floor of the tank, how do you raise the ambient temp and humidity without effectively sucking out all the humidity with other heat lamps and such?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ntrent1

Hi all, this is my first post here :)

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Welcome!! :handshake:

Here are some suggestions:

--Consider switching to a plastic tub. It holds heat and humidity far better than a glass tank. It may not look as pretty...but you can still see your snake through it and watch it moving around. (I know, because I watch mine whenever she's out and about. ;) ) I currently live in Tucson and it gets VERY dry here...and yet, with the plastic tub, I have to watch it to make sure the humidity doesn't get too high!

--Consider a second UTH for the "cool side" of the tank. Two UTH's running will do better than one. You'll need a second t-stat, or at least a rheostat for the second UTH.

--Insulate three sides of the tank with thick cardboard.

--Consider buying a strip of 3" flexwatt to wrap around three sides of the tank about 1/3 of the way up to help keep the ambient temps inside the glass warm enough without having to use lights that suck the humidity out of the air.

--So long as you're having humidity problems, keep an eye on your snake and be ready to notice when it goes into shed...then provide a humid hide.

--Humidity levels in the upper 40's is fine...so don't beat yourself up trying to reach some "magic" number of 50%. (Just remember that humid hide for sheds. ;) )

--Decrease the substrate until its just a thin layer across the floor of the tank. They don't need a "cushion" of aspen..just enough to soak up any waste. Or switch to newspaper.

Hope this has helped some... Good luck with it!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ntrent1

Hmmm....Could i use flexwatt instead? 32"X14"X18" is the dimensions of the tank - 35-40 gallon i think? I'm not totally sure.

Ok, i'll take that so called heater back :) I didn't think it was doing much, anyway. Also- can thick substrate hinder the use of the uth? i think i'm gonna replace it with newspaper....

Now, one more question...If the UTH only heats the floor of the tank, how do you raise the ambient temp and humidity without effectively sucking out all the humidity with other heat lamps and such?

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Is this a baby ball python? If so that tank is way to large for it.If its a juvie or sub-adult then the tank is kinda ok.Ball pythons need more floor space then height.I have my Adult breeders in a 41qt tub rack and i kept babies in either a ten gal or a 20 gal tank.I now have a hatchling rack for next springs babies.I just place maybe 2 sheets of newspaper in the enclosure for babies and a full section or 2 spread in the adult enclosure.My snakes hide under the paper and keep warm or they hide on the other side and keep cool when its needed.The ambient temp comes from the room the enclosure is in.So if your room is cold it will be a problem for your ambient temps.Do you have a way to keep your room warmer? Is there another room that is warmer?

Thanks for that info!

I'm a little confused about a couple things.. I've read in several posts that a humidity of at least 60% is needed for BPs, is that a myth? or just a suggestion?

Well, i guess that was just one thing...lol

OH, also, when using a T-stat, do you put the probe on the bottom of the tank/on the substrate to measure bottom temps?

Nope, supposedly he's about a year and a half - that's him in my avatar, i'd say around 2 1/2 to 3 feet. think he need a bigger tank? he seems fairly comfortable, but i'm new to this :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ntrent1

Thanks for that info!

I'm a little confused about a couple things.. I've read in several posts that a humidity of at least 60% is needed for BPs, is that a myth? or just a suggestion?

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Most people suggest maintaining daily humidity in the 50-60% range. And while this may be ideal, BP's will do just fine in the 40's if all other conditions are met.

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OH, also, when using a T-stat, do you put the probe on the bottom of the tank/on the substrate to measure bottom temps?

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I like to put mine inside the tank/tub...but directly on the bottom with the substrate on top of it. (As I mentioned earlier...a very thin layer of substrate) This way, I know exactly how hot the floor of the enclosure is getting. And I place the thermometer probe on top of the substrate, but under the warm-side hide....so that I can be sure the t-stat setting is doing its job.

it sounds like your less expensive option is to switch to a tub. i use them... a 41 qt tub is perrrrfect for an adult ball!

some flex watt on one side of your enclosure... two hides, a water dish and you are set!!!

i personally use aspen cause i love it and have it at about 1-2" thick.

Here is a pic of my largest adult female(Elvira 5lbs+) in her 41qt tub in the rack i mentioned above.She has plenty of room and since ball pythons prefere close areas they love every minute in them lol. http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...vira112006.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ntrent1

Thanks for that info!

I'm a little confused about a couple things.. I've read in several posts that a humidity of at least 60% is needed for BPs, is that a myth? or just a suggestion?

Well, i guess that was just one thing...lol

OH, also, when using a T-stat, do you put the probe on the bottom of the tank/on the substrate to measure bottom temps?

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I placed the probe for the Tstat on the 4th shelf of my 7 shelf rack and its taped to a lid.This imitates the same as placing the probe inside of one of the 41qt tubs,only the snakes can not move it lol.If you like i can get some pics showing this :).

I've switched to a new setup today! I followed some of yall's advice and went and got me a 41qt rubber tub! It's working great so far, and the temps and humidity are stabalizing really quickly. Heres some pics!

http://www.kustom-built.net/bpnetpics/tub1.JPG
http://www.kustom-built.net/bpnetpics/tub2.JPG
http://www.kustom-built.net/bpnetpics/tub3.JPG

Yes, I know the half-logs are a no-no, and i plan on getting tighter hides as soon as i can (probably tomorrow), but it's better than nothing for now!

Any suggestions or comments? :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ntrent1

I've switched to a new setup today! I followed some of yall's advice and went and got me a 41qt rubber tub! It's working great so far, and the temps and humidity are stabalizing really quickly. Heres some pics!

[IMG]www.kustom-built.net/bpnetpics/tub1.JPG[/IMG]
[IMG]www.kustom-built.net/bpnetpics/tub2.JPG[/IMG]
[IMG]www.kustom-built.net/bpnetpics/tub3.JPG[/IMG]

Yes, I know the half-logs are a no-no, and i plan on getting tighter hides as soon as i can (probably tomorrow), but it's better than nothing for now!

Any suggestions or comments? :)

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some binder clips to lock the top and something more stable to keep it on

hmm, how do you get pics to show up in-post? mine didnt show up for some reason/...

Sorry lol, theyre showing up now! :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ntrent1

hmm, how do you get pics to show up in-post? mine didnt show up for some reason/...

Sorry lol, theyre showing up now! :)

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Yeah, I fixed 'em for ya. Two things to note when posting pictures: 1) Make sure the [img] tags are lower case....and 2) make sure to include http:// in the picture url.

Thank you!

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Originally Posted by tmlowe5704

some binder clips to lock the top and something more stable to keep it on

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Definitely get some binder clips to keep that lid on, or else you may be dealing with an escape. That, or some luggage straps to strap that lid on. You can see how I used binder clips on some temporary baby tubs:

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...b/BabyRack.jpg

You already acknowledged the change in hides, you definitely want something more snug for them. Dollar Tree has nice plastic soup bowls that make fantastic hides, just pick up a solder wand from WalMart or Home Depot for about $10 and solder out the entrance to the hides for them.

Here's an example - and I'm using the larger sized bowls for my bigger girls:

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...aEnclosure.jpg

Ok, I think I'll do that! I've got a question though, just how small of a hide do they need? i mean, i dont want to get something and have it be too small and have him get stuck in it or somethin when im gone! :P Any particular way to judge how tight it should be?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ntrent1

Ok, I think I'll do that! I've got a question though, just how small of a hide do they need? i mean, i dont want to get something and have it be too small and have him get stuck in it or somethin when im gone! :P Any particular way to judge how tight it should be?

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Here's a fun little story about hides that has pictures for illustrating how small they like it. You don't have to use hides like I have here...but do make sure its something you can just lift off the top of them. They won't ever get stuck in there.

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=35212

:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ntrent1

Ok, I think I'll do that! I've got a question though, just how small of a hide do they need? i mean, i dont want to get something and have it be too small and have him get stuck in it or somethin when im gone! :P Any particular way to judge how tight it should be?

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The smaller the better!

Seems pointless to switch from Glass down to Plastic.

btw very good suggestions JLC. Do you think blocking 3/4 of the walls would reduce stress? Make it feel more secure? Not have the snake "testing" the glass on each side?

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Originally Posted by Rascal

Seems pointless to switch from Glass down to Plastic.

btw very good suggestions JLC. Do you think blocking 3/4 of the walls would reduce stress? Make it feel more secure? Not have the snake "testing" the glass on each side?

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plastic is easy to maintain because it is light and easily moved for clean up, holds temps and humidity real easily and is extremely easy to heat. they take up minimal space and can be kept in a rack system and you can keep multiple snakes in the same space as one in a larger tank

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rascal

Seems pointless to switch from Glass down to Plastic.

btw very good suggestions JLC. Do you think blocking 3/4 of the walls would reduce stress? Make it feel more secure? Not have the snake "testing" the glass on each side?

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I don't think it's pointless to switch from glass to plastic...however, if someone doesn't want to, that's fine. And yes, I think covering 3/4 of the walls not only provides insulation, but also makes it more likely your snake will feel secure.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ntrent1

Ok, I think I'll do that! I've got a question though, just how small of a hide do they need? i mean, i dont want to get something and have it be too small and have him get stuck in it or somethin when im gone! :P Any particular way to judge how tight it should be?

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In the Barkers' book, they caution keepers to make sure the snake can fit double it's width through the opening to the hide. There is a story about a hatchling that went halfway out, turned around and tried to go back in. It got stuck and died.

Otherwise, you would be amazed how small a space they can stuff themselves into!