official respitory infection thread

if a snake shows early symptoms of an RI can they be reversed by raising temps and humidity?

is it a must to take a snake with an RI to a vet or can it be cured by raising temps and humidity?

if one snake has it in your collection will the rest of your collection in the area contract it from the infected one?

if a bp is not in shed and you hear it whistle when it breathes that is probably an symptom of RI but if the snake just breaths loudly with no whistle that is not?

what is the best way to relieve RI symptoms while waiting fo a vet appointment?

these are just some questions i have because i have never had to deal with a respitory infection and i am getting conflicted opinions from hobbyists and even books.

correct information and personal experience would be great!

thanks guys!

this may assist you:

http://www.ball-pythons.net/modules....warticle&id=50

thats great! thanks!


people have told me to raise the humidity when they show symptoms of RI but i have always read on here that it should be lowered so i was kind of confused...

The raised humidity will help break up the mucas in the lungs. Its the same idea behind putting a humidifier in the room of a kid with broncitius(sp). The raised humidity with the meds the vet gives will do worlds of help. Raise the humidity to where it is when they are in shed maybe a little higher. Also bump you temps up alittle over norm this should help.

Its the combo of low temps and humidity that allows an URI to set in. not humidity alone

Hope this helps -Ed

ok that makes sense but the link above says that humidity should be lowered?


is that only for early stages of RI?

i think that one of my bps may have RI thats why im asking all these questions.

thanks for the help it is appreciated...

For and early RI I would lower the humidity and raise the temps and get to the vet.

Hope this Helps -Ed

so even for early RI symptoms a vet is needed?

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Keep in mind that the aforementioned data does not forego a vet-check. Any sick animal, regardless of species, should be examined by a knowledgeable practicioner.

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I would because what we think is the on set of an RI might be the precursor to something bigger or the RI might be worse than what you think. Its always a good idea to take your herp to a pro when its sicks they can better asses whats going on and what you think is an RI could be something as simple as a nose scale whistling or something as bad as cancer. I'm not trying to scare you I just want you to see that for any illness a vet is 99% of the time needed. The only time an experienced heper want take there snake to the vet is for minor injuries, stuck shed and so on.

It just me and if it were my snake I'd rather be safe than sorry.

Hope this helps -Ed

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Originally Posted by bigballs

so even for early RI symptoms a vet is needed?

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Yes, even an RI caught early needs to be treated by a vet. Tweaking the environment can mask the symptoms, while the bacteria causing it continue to grow stronger...eventually it'll come back even worse.

so then i should disinfect the whole enlosure aswell after a vet check right?

random question: can an RI from a boa get contracted by a python?

thanks guys. im not doubting your knowledge with my questions or by saying things that i've heard that may contradict what your telling me im just double checking. the help is greatly appreciated.

[Quote]-if a bp is not in shed and you hear it whistle when it breathes that is probably an symptom of RI but if the snake just breaths loudly with no whistle that is not?-[Quote]


My female Morrighan just went in to shed a few days ago and I have noticed an almost whistle or squeak if you will but I've only heard it like twice when i picked her up to clean does shedding have something to do with it or is it a possible RI my temps are dead on just for reference

With temps dead on and she is in shed its more than likely just dry skin whistleing as she breeths out. Waith till she sheds and see if this clears up. But thats what it sounds like to

Hope this helps -Ed

i medicate my own snakes with tylan 200. in the rare occurance one of them pops up with a ri.

not trying to jack this thread but how much would it cost for a vet to give the medication for an RI?:snake:

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Originally Posted by rmune0750

not trying to jack this thread but how much would it cost for a vet to give the medication for an RI?:snake:

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Ryan...see this thread:
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=39369

I doubt Tylan works very well as it is meant for mycoplasmosis based infections(and snakes don't carry mycoplasmosis). Rats and pigs(and sometimes poultry) are the ones who normally carry myco bacteria but aren't affected by it. It is just in times of stress that the myco reduces the immune system's ability to fight off infection, and that is when other bacteria can get in and make the animal sick.

Tylan may help mask the symptoms, but I am really doubting the efficacy. Get some Baytril or Fortaz, etc, and use that. Leave the Tylan for what it was meant for, for treating hogs.

I've used it in rats before in combination with baytril(enrofloxacin) and it didn't work very well. Baytril and Doxycycline is what I use in my rats if they are stressed from shipping or travelling and aren't coping well.

Your best direction for treating a respiratory infection in a reptile is to first take it to a vet and get a tracheal wash. You then send that fluid off for a culture. After you get the results of what bacteria it is and what ABs the bacteria is sensitive too, you have the vet write you a prescription for the antibiotic treatment regimen and you get your snake well(not just mask the symptoms for next time your husbandry is off-par).

That's just my $0.14 :)

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Originally Posted by SatanicIntention

... That's just my $0.14 :)

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And worth every penny! :D Awesome post, Becky! Thanks!!!

Great post Becky!

For me it's pretty straightforward, I'd bet that most of us on here have pretty limited real time experience with snakes and how to diagnose a brewing illness, when to call in the vet and when to do other things first. We have some top people here at BPNet that have those combined numbers of snakes/years of experience that can do that but for most of us that's just way over reaching our current skill levels.

I wouldn't risk a snake in this house by over-estimating what I can do. I'd rather do the vet run, find out what's really up, combine that with some supportive advice from those here far more experienced than I currently am and call it good.

ok so some people didnt vote for the very popular first option of the poll.


do you guys want to explain why you feel that way???

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Originally Posted by bigballs

ok so some people didnt vote for the very popular first option of the poll.


do you guys want to explain why you feel that way???

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i'm guessing... this is just my guess of course... that the ones who voted otherwise simply were unaware? :confused:

it's kinda like saying... if i have an infection in my arm... if i just sit down and relax it'll pass. unfortunately that's not the case, although i sure wish it was (i don't like taking meds especially antibiotics)

youre right that they may be unaware but i know people that believe that correcting the husbandry issues will cure the infection(which we all know is not true).
and i dont take meds either...

I'm really slow in reading some threads...
However I have heard of quite a few people who successfully use Tylan to treat RIs, it'd be interesting to have some of them post about their experiences.

The RI's I've had to get treated were treated with Fortaz.

Just wondering if there is a particular time of year , or season, when RIs seem to be more prevalent, like flu season with people.

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Originally Posted by snakeLVR

Just wondering if there is a particular time of year , or season, when RIs seem to be more prevalent, like flu season with people.

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Yes, winter ... cold temps cause RI's ... keep your snakes warm and you'll never see them ... ever. And if you think you're temps are "perfect" and they're still getting RI's, you probably are missing something. :sweeet:

Hope this helps.

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Yes, winter ... cold temps cause RI's ... keep your snakes warm and you'll never see them ... ever. And if you think you're temps are "perfect" and they're still getting RI's, you probably are missing something. :sweeet:

Hope this helps.

-adam

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That was dead on the nail!

Thanks Adam, that was a big help!

and what about humidity?

u gotsta go to tha Vet if ur snake has an RI...there is no udda option:colbert:

how easy is it for a bp to catch an RI? can they get it in a day or does it take time? can one stressful event or improper husbandry for a short duration cause it?

since this thread got brought back up...anyone have the website to find out certified vets in your area?

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Originally Posted by mricyfire

since this thread got brought back up...anyone have the website to find out certified vets in your area?

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Here's two:

http://www.arav.org/USMembers.htm

http://www.anapsid.org/vets/index.html#vetlist

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Originally Posted by JLC

Here's two:

http://www.arav.org/USMembers.htm

http://www.anapsid.org/vets/index.html#vetlist

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thanks!

I was hearing a little bit of a whistle/wheeze from my snake every so often, was worse during her shed but she still had it after so I brought her in to get checked out. The vet told me to just keep the temps a solid 95/80 with 50%, now she seems to be better but every so often I think she might make a little noise again. Should I find a new vet? (Granted he did seem a little odd when he was talking in general). If I need to get her shots I have no issue with it, esp since I wont be the one getting the shot :P .

And does anyone suggest a vet whos in CT? I ask because the vet I went to was on the http://www.anapsid.org/vets/index.html#vetlist list.

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Originally Posted by Nikki0326

I was hearing a little bit of a whistle/wheeze from my snake every so often, was worse during her shed but she still had it after so I brought her in to get checked out. The vet told me to just keep the temps a solid 95/80 with 50%, now she seems to be better but every so often I think she might make a little noise again. Should I find a new vet? (Granted he did seem a little odd when he was talking in general). If I need to get her shots I have no issue with it, esp since I wont be the one getting the shot :P .

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Sometimes they will make a teeny little sound when you're handling them...kinda like a little micro-hiss. If it's just a small and isolated thing and not a constant noise that you hear with every breath, I'd think it is ok. In the meantime, you can console yourself that you haven't seen any other signs develop....such as open-mouthed breathing...head always tilted up...slime smeared on the sides of the enclosure....drooling.....etc. ;)

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Originally Posted by JLC

Sometimes they will make a teeny little sound when you're handling them...kinda like a little micro-hiss. If it's just a small and isolated thing and not a constant noise that you hear with every breath, I'd think it is ok. In the meantime, you can console yourself that you haven't seen any other signs develop....such as open-mouthed breathing...head always tilted up...slime smeared on the sides of the enclosure....drooling.....etc. ;)

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Well as of yet I haven't heard anything else. But when I did take her in he (the vet) said that she did have the very beginning signs of an RI (foam at the back of the throat is what I believe he said). So should I just leave her alone for now and just keep an eye on things?

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Originally Posted by Nikki0326

Well as of yet I haven't heard anything else. But when I did take her in he (the vet) said that she did have the very beginning signs of an RI (foam at the back of the throat is what I believe he said). So should I just leave her alone for now and just keep an eye on things?

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Hmmmm.....definitely leave her alone for awhile. The stress of being handled won't help things. If my vet said she had the "beginnings" of an RI, I'd insist on a culture and a course of treatment. So, under those circumstances, it might be wise to seek a second opinion. (Sorry I can't help you with names...not familiar with docs in that part of the country)

Hmm I just got ym snake and I am worried about that head always up thing. You mean ALWAYS up or just once in awhile? The snake is still ewn to it's enclosure so it may be just getting curious is what i was thinking. I know I am pretty much probably being over protective but what can I say the snake is too cute to take chances :sunny:

Quick question...do ball take deep breaths? Mine usually doesnt make any noise...but sometimes at night when he is up and about, he might make one or two deep exhales...but they dont sound like a whistle...it sounds just like it would if you took a deep breathe now and exhaled.

Anything I should be worried about?

About a year ago my ball python started wheezing. At first it was barely noticable, then I realized it happened with nearly every breath. Took her to the vet, got the shots, administered them as instructed. Still wheezing! Turns out my husbandry was waaayyyy off (had not yet found these boards, just went by a few caresheets online)... she was too cold, and way too dry. So this summer I've gotten her humidity up, and temps correct (though still fiddling with that) and she hasn't wheezed at all in a few months now.

Though sometimes she does let out a deep breath, but I don't think that's anything to worry about. Kinda just like how they randomly yawn, right?

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Originally Posted by Tripppysmurf

Hmm I just got ym snake and I am worried about that head always up thing. You mean ALWAYS up or just once in awhile? The snake is still ewn to it's enclosure so it may be just getting curious is what i was thinking. I know I am pretty much probably being over protective but what can I say the snake is too cute to take chances :sunny:

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It certainly can't hurt to take your snake in for a general check up if you're concerned about something. But if a snake has an RI to the point where it is holding its head up in order to breathe more easily, you'll likely notice other symptoms as well, such as "drool" or mucus around its mouth or smeared around the enclosure.

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Originally Posted by mricyfire

Quick question...do ball take deep breaths? Mine usually doesnt make any noise...but sometimes at night when he is up and about, he might make one or two deep exhales...but they dont sound like a whistle...it sounds just like it would if you took a deep breathe now and exhaled.

Anything I should be worried about?

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Sounds normal to me.


Let me caveat the things I've said in this thread by saying that I'm not a vet, nor have had any veterinary training, nor do I even have a ton of snakes. I'm just speaking about things I have read and studied and listened to experienced folks talk about. Always...when in doubt about your snake's health....ask a vet!

Well to update I've called around to a few different vets, I found one that said they would treat with injectable antibiotics. I have an apt on the 22nd to bring her in. They sounded like the best bet (closest to where Im living atm too) considering one of the vets I talked to was treating another snake (although it was a boa) who had an RI with oral meds, tube feeding, and xrays. And I read on previous posts that shots were more effective so I'd rather stick with that. So hopefully I should have a fully healthy girl, treated by a vet who will get rid of the problem in the correct manner. Thanks for posting the link to the sites Judy, that was a tremendous help.

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Originally Posted by bigballs

how easy is it for a bp to catch an RI? can they get it in a day or does it take time? can one stressful event or improper husbandry for a short duration cause it?

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okay to bring this thread back up because I noticed that these questions were not answered and Im reallly curious about the answers. :D thanx everyone.

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Originally Posted by Ladydragon

okay to bring this thread back up because I noticed that these questions were not answered and Im reallly curious about the answers. :D thanx everyone.

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My vet told me today that there was a bad ice storm in '03 that kicked out a bunch of power around here. She said the office was flooded with birds and reptiles with respiratory illnesses and that even as little as 12 hours of cold can cause a snake to become ill.

I would hope that's the exception, not the rule... but it's very important to keep snakes at the proper temperatures and maintain good husbandry otherwise. :)

I haven't read every thread in between the first post in here, but here's my .02 on RI. Even mild RI should be treated with antibiotics in addition to adjusting the environment.

In some cases making adjustments to the environment will clear it up, but on those that it does work, you have lost precious time and will further endanger your snake by delaying treatment.

Justin

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Originally Posted by bigballs

if a snake shows early symptoms of an RI can they be reversed by raising temps and humidity?

Yes they CAN

is it a must to take a snake with an RI to a vet or can it be cured by raising temps and humidity?

No, but highly recommended if you're wanting insurance on a good outcome. Antibiotics that a vet will give you will greatly help your snake fight the bacteria causing the RI.

if one snake has it in your collection will the rest of your collection in the area contract it from the infected one?

There is bacteria living every one of your snake's enclosures at all times. The rest of your snakes that do not have RI are keep it in check with healthy immune systems. If your animal with RI has a unique bacteria that it cannot fight well, then I would be very careful not to spread that bacteria to the other animals.

Often RI is caused by the snake's immune system being compromised by low temps or some other environmental issue, the snake is unable then to fight off the infection effectively and gets sick in much the same way you and I would.

I haven't ever had transference but I've be painstakingly careful to prevent it. Make sure you have several bottles of the antibacterial "no-water" hand wash sitting around your snake room.. and use it liberally.

if a bp is not in shed and you hear it whistle when it breathes that is probably an symptom of RI but if the snake just breaths loudly with no whistle that is not?

If you think you see one symptom but not others, look around for some collaboration... such as:

1. resting with the head tilted up
2. any dried saliva on the walls of the enclosure
3. excess saliva floating in the water bowl
4. the lower jaw looking puffy
5. the forks of the tongue consistently sticking together
6. any rasping sound you can feel with your hand when you place it over the lungs
7. OR if you feel comfortable carefully open the snakes mouth and see if it looks abnormal



what is the best way to relieve RI symptoms while waiting fo a vet appointment?

Increase the heat on the animal and start those antibiotics ASAP. Don't put off your vet appt.

these are just some questions i have because i have never had to deal with a respitory infection and i am getting conflicted opinions from hobbyists and even books.

Like any science project, its all about trial and error. sometimes its hard to know what is a slightly better protocol than another and people find and use what works for them!

correct information and personal experience would be great!

thanks guys!

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I put my comments in the post above, I hope they are helpful!!

thank you.. they are very helpful.. if not to the original poster, they are to me and I'm sure countless other people. :D

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Originally Posted by jkobylka

I put my comments in the post above, I hope they are helpful!!

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Great post.
RI's need to be nipped in the bud immediately before they get worse. People forget they can be FATAL if not cured. Snakes have very primitive lungs and can drown on fluid build up, they don't have the capacity(diaphram) to cough like we do.

This thread is too long for me to read the whole thing, so this question might have already been answered on here, but what do you guys recommend doing if a Ball isn't responding to Antibiotics and a temp and humidity increase.

P.S. - She didn't respond to Baytril and now she's on Genocin and not showing improvement.