Soaking for extended periods of time?!?

My snake had mites awhile ago... I used pam 2 days ago and did't notice any mites alive anymore.. But for some reason when i got home today I notice her soaking in the water... I did't think much about it... I went out again and came home now hours later its still soaking... should I be worried?

i would guess the mites aren't all gone yet. how did you apply the Provent A Mite?

YES! I did use PAM... The mites on her should die once I put her back in her treated tank..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by recycling goddess

i would guess the mites aren't all gone yet. how did you apply the Provent A Mite?

---

how did you apply it?

I followed directions on the bottle :confused:

okay then sorry i can't help you. i can't suggest what may or may not have gone wrong without any info.

later dude...
aleesha

What are the temps in your enclosure? How are you creating and measuring them? And what/when did your snake last eat?


If you're sure the mites are gone (and it sounds like they should be!)...then the snake may be soaking due to improper temps.....or trying to cram itself into a more secure-feeling "hide" (if your hides are really big or open-ended).....or maybe taking the pressure off her belly from a large meal.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 581775017

My snake had mites awhile ago... I used pam 2 days ago and did't notice any mites alive anymore.. But for some reason when i got home today I notice her soaking in the water... I did't think much about it... I went out again and came home now hours later its still soaking... should I be worried?

---

Ok when you used it did you spray the snake and the enclosure from top to bottom? Depending on how bad the mites were did you spray around the outside of the enclosure also? What are you using for the substrate at this time? I would remove everything(if your using reptibark or such) and place newspapers or paper towels for the substrate until you are 110% sure all mites are gone.I will keep an eye out for your response here.:)

I did not spray the snake or water bowl as instructed on the can.. Im using aspen right now... I do notice some dead mites in the water though... Is she trying to get rid of the dead mites on her? She ate 3-4 days ago... I fead her many times she never soaks... shes been soaking for 4hrs+ now.. should I remove her from the water?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 581775017

I did not spray the snake or water bowl as instructed on the can.. Im using aspen right now... I do notice some dead mites in the water though... Is she trying to get rid of the dead mites on her? She ate 3-4 days ago... I fead her many times she never soaks... shes been soaking for 4hrs+ now.. should I remove her from the water?

---

OK i am confused here,the can says not to spray the snake:confused: .I have never used PAM so of course i have no idea what the directions say.Thats really weird though because thats where the mites are is on the snake.I have used Reptile Relief in the past and sprayed the snake,enclosure from top to bottom and the water bowl upside down.Could you please reread the instructions? I am not saying you are lieing just that i am lost to as why it would say not to spray the snake.Could it just say not in the snakes face maybe?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by joepythons

OK i am confused here,the can says not to spray the snake:confused: .I have never used PAM so of course i have no idea what the directions say.Thats really weird though because thats where the mites are is on the snake.I have used Reptile Relief in the past and sprayed the snake,enclosure from top to bottom and the water bowl upside down.Could you please reread the instructions? I am not saying you are lieing just that i am lost to as why it would say not to spray the snake.Could it just say not in the snakes face maybe?

---

Joe, if you've never read the directions on PAM, then I wouldn't suggest that someone is doing it wrong. It's not the same thing as Reptile Relief...and your post could actually encourage someone to spray something dangerous right on their snake. :O

Spraying the enclosure and the substrate with PAM (and letting it dry completely) is what gets rid of the mites. If the snake still had some on him, maybe he's trying to get rid of the last ones. Or maybe a second application of PAM is needed in this case. But I'm quite sure it should not be sprayed ON the snake.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JLC

Joe, if you've never read the directions on PAM, then I wouldn't suggest that someone is doing it wrong. It's not the same thing as Reptile Relief...and your post could actually encourage someone to spray something dangerous right on their snake. :O

Spraying the enclosure and the substrate with PAM (and letting it dry completely) is what gets rid of the mites. If the snake still had some on him, maybe he's trying to get rid of the last ones. Or maybe a second application of PAM is needed in this case. But I'm quite sure it should not be sprayed ON the snake.

---

Sorry i just attempted to help the poster out like i was asked.Could you please delete my incorrect comments in this thread?

Shes still soaking!!! should I remove her or just let her soak???

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by joepythons

Ok when you used it did you spray the snake and the enclosure from top to bottom? Depending on how bad the mites were did you spray around the outside of the enclosure also? What are you using for the substrate at this time? I would remove everything(if your using reptibark or such) and place newspapers or paper towels for the substrate until you are 110% sure all mites are gone.I will keep an eye out for your response here.:)

---

Please ignore these comments since i have never used PAM.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 581775017

Shes still soaking!!! should I remove her or just let her soak???

---

Here's what I would do, if I were in your shoes. I'd take everything out of her cage and replace the substrate with white paper towels. And then put in a water dish that is too small for her to soak in. Check back in the morning and see if you see any mites on the paper towels.

soaking for long periods of time wont hurt her right? shes been in there for 5 hrs now..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 581775017

soaking for long periods of time wont hurt her right? shes been in there for 5 hrs now..

---

Well, I told ya what I would do. If she gets taken out and stays clean and dry, I'm sure she'll be fine. Things like scale-rot and blisters come after days of sitting around in wet, dirty water or substrate...probably not after a few hours in a clean waterbowl.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by recycling goddess

okay then sorry i can't help you. i can't suggest what may or may not have gone wrong without any info.

later dude...
aleesha

---

sorry for being short with you. i'm not feeling well and never meant to take it out on you. :(

i was attempting to find out exactly what you sprayed. did you spray the lid on the outside as well as the inside. did you spray the container and any crevices which may be on the tub. did you spray your substrate?

you do not spray their water dish (you soak that in a bleach solution) and you do not spray your snake and P.A.M. in liquid form is highly toxic :eek: - that's why you need to make sure it's very dry before putting your snake into the enclosure and why you need to spray outside!

judy has given you excellent advice... (thanks judy)

and again... i'm sorry i was short with you... i was in pain and wanted to get off the computer but i wanted to assist you before leaving... unfortunately i didn't end up being any help to you at all. :hug:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by recycling goddess

sorry for being short with you. i'm not feeling well and never meant to take it out on you. :(

i was attempting to find out exactly what you sprayed. did you spray the lid on the outside as well as the inside. did you spray the container and any crevices which may be on the tub. did you spray your substrate?

you do not spray their water dish (you soak that in a bleach solution) and you do not spray your snake and P.A.M. in liquid form is highly toxic :eek: - that's why you need to make sure it's very dry before putting your snake into the enclosure and why you need to spray outside!

judy has given you excellent advice... (thanks judy)

and again... i'm sorry i was short with you... i was in pain and wanted to get off the computer but i wanted to assist you before leaving... unfortunately i didn't end up being any help to you at all. :hug:

---

No problem...Everyone has there days... Im not in a good mood either seeing my snake go all werid... This morning when I woke up there she was in the water again!!! I think shes just trying to get the dead mites off her... I don 't see any live ones anymore... lets see how things go... Does soaking and RI have anything to do with each other?

Do you see any dead mites in the water? When mine had mites, you could plainly see them in there.
Never spray PAM right onto the snake!

Yeah I do see mites in the water.. but what worries me is that my snake stays in water for the whole day without comming out...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 581775017

Yeah I do see mites in the water.. but what worries me is that my snake stays in water for the whole day without comming out...

---

Then why not take the waterbowl OUT of the tank and put in a small dish that she won't fit into?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JLC

But I'm quite sure it should not be sprayed ON the snake.

---

That is correct, PAM should NEVER be sprayed directly on the snake. The treatment in the enclosure will kill any mites and eggs still on the snake when it's introduced to the treated enclosure.

I've used Reptile Relief and PAM. Reptile Relief is great for killing mites on the snake, but not the eggs and re-infestation can occur in 2-4 weeks. PAM takes away all worries for me, because I know that the eggs are being killed as well.

As for soaking, have you thought about replacing the water bowl with something smaller?

How are you measuring your temps? Is it possible it's too warm in the enclosure?

Are the hides that you are offering your snake nice and snug (can he feel the hide touching him on all sides and above?). If the hides are too large, it could be he's using the water dish as a hide, because he can "feel" the water touching him all around.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JLC

Then why not take the waterbowl OUT of the tank and put in a small dish that she won't fit into?

---

Hes soaking for a reason.. I don't want to take away that option for him to soak... and your the one who said aslong as its clean water he shouldn't have a problem being in the for long periods of time right?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 581775017

Hes soaking for a reason.. I don't want to take away that option for him to soak... and your the one who said aslong as its clean water he shouldn't have a problem being in the for long periods of time right?

---

hehe...yeah, but I'm not the one that's so worried about it. :P ;)

And I also suggested removing it earlier. While I don't think a few hours that he's already been in there is likely to cause issues....letting him continue to soak day after day certainly can.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rabernet

That is correct, PAM should NEVER be sprayed directly on the snake. The treatment in the enclosure will kill any mites and eggs still on the snake when it's introduced to the treated enclosure.

I've used Reptile Relief and PAM. Reptile Relief is great for killing mites on the snake, but not the eggs and re-infestation can occur in 2-4 weeks. PAM takes away all worries for me, because I know that the eggs are being killed as well.

As for soaking, have you thought about replacing the water bowl with something smaller?

How are you measuring your temps? Is it possible it's too warm in the enclosure?

Are the hides that you are offering your snake nice and snug (can he feel the hide touching him on all sides and above?). If the hides are too large, it could be he's using the water dish as a hide, because he can "feel" the water touching him all around.

---

Shes been living in the tank for a month now... She use to always hide in her hide all the time.. so I dont' think the hide is the problem... The Temps are 93F and I use probe to measure right underneth the aspen.. So is RI and soaking related?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 581775017

Shes been living in the tank for a month now... She use to always hide in her hide all the time.. so I dont' think the hide is the problem... The Temps are 93F and I use probe to measure right underneth the aspen.. So is RI and soaking related?

---

I've never heard of soaking being related to RI symptoms, nor causing RI.

You say "hide" as in singular? Maybe she wants another one? If they only have one hide, they have to choose between the security it offers, and the proper temp for thermoregulation that may be on the other side of the enclosure.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JLC

hehe...yeah, but I'm not the one that's so worried about it. :P ;)

And I also suggested removing it earlier. While I don't think a few hours that he's already been in there is likely to cause issues....letting him continue to soak day after day certainly can.

---

OMG she been soaking for 5 hours already!! My wife just called and told me she saw her in the water when she woke up already and thats 6AM!! I guess when I get off work and if shes still soaking I will have to remove the water bowl... Shes not soaking in the bowl she drinks from.. shes soaking in the hot side where I keep water to raise the humidity... By the time I get home if shes still in the water It would of been 15hrs+ :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 581775017

Shes been living in the tank for a month now... She use to always hide in her hide all the time.. so I dont' think the hide is the problem... The Temps are 93F and I use probe to measure right underneth the aspen.. So is RI and soaking related?

---

That's nice - you still didn't answer the question though - how SNUG is the one hide you are offering her?

She should have two - one on the warm side and one on the cool side. What are the temps on her cool side? 93 sounds right for the warm side. Maybe you aren't offering her a cool side, and she's using the water bowl to cool off?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JLC

I've never heard of soaking being related to RI symptoms, nor causing RI.

You say "hide" as in singular? Maybe she wants another one? If they only have one hide, they have to choose between the security it offers, and the proper temp for thermoregulation that may be on the other side of the enclosure.

---

Yeah I only have one hide.. I don't have space.. I only got a 25gal tank.. One hide one nice piece of wood and one water bowl.. But I keep my hide right in the middle... 60% of the hide is on the hot side and 40% of the hide is on the cool side.. Does that work?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 581775017

Shes not soaking in the bowl she drinks from.. shes soaking in the hot side where I keep water to raise the humidity... By the time I get home if shes still in the water It would of been 15hrs+ :(

---

Let me guess, there's no hide on that side, is there, since you have the water bowl there.

Maybe she's trying to thermoregulate her temps, and the only "hide" available on that side is the water dish?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 581775017

Yeah I only have one hide.. I don't have space.. I only got a 25gal tank.. One hide one nice piece of wood and one water bowl.. But I keep my hide right in the middle... 60% of the hide is on the hot side and 40% of the hide is on the cool side.. Does that work?

---

You can EASILY fit 2 hides and a water dish in a 25 gallon tank. I did it when I used tanks, I even have 2 hides and a water dish in a 15 QUART tub (a little less than 5 gallons). Sounds like the hide you want to use is too big. Probably a 1/2 log hide?

Ok....I'm gonna suggest a few changes that should hopefully help you out a lot.


You say you have a 25gal tank...that should be plenty of room, unless its more tall than it is long, in which case you need to seriously consider a whole new enclosure for multiple reasons.

Take out the branch...they don't need it.

Use smaller hides. Trust me, they don't need caves that are big enough to thermoregulate in a single hide. That won't feel secure enough. They much prefer to cram themselves into very tight, confined spaces.

With smaller hides, you can easily fit one at each end, and even another in the middle. They don't need a lot of empty floor space to "stretch out" in or anything. If they want to move around, they're just as happy climbing over their hides as anything.

Ditch the giant water bowl all together. Keep her drinking water (small dish she can't soak in) on the warm side of the enclosure if that helps with humidity....and cover the screen top with something to help hold the humidity in.

If worse comes to worse and you can't keep the humidity up in the 50% range...it's fine in the 40's too...and just offer a humid hide when she goes into shed. That's a much better option than what you've described so far.

Good luck with it!

EDIT for a quick thought: You don't even have to take the branch out...just rest it on top of the hides if there isn't room for it alongside at least two hides. (Just make sure its secure and won't topple)

Here's a fun little illustration of just how small and tight they like their hides:


http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=35212

:P

Appropriately sized hides for babies:


http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...ub/BabyTub.jpg

A ball python really IS under there!
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...b/BabyTub2.jpg

Appropriately sized hides for juvies:

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...aEnclosure.jpg

Baby hides are the small plastic flower pot saucers at Walmart for $.47 each with an entrance soldered out.

Juvie hides are plastic bowls from Dollar Tree, now being sold in a 4 pack for $1 with an entrance soldered out.

Thanks for all the info! I just hope shes ok! I swear I read somewhere and they said be sure to have a water bowl large enough for them to soak.. But anyways thanks!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JLC

Here's what I would do, if I were in your shoes. I'd take everything out of her cage and replace the substrate with white paper towels. And then put in a water dish that is too small for her to soak in. Check back in the morning and see if you see any mites on the paper towels.

---

Strong work Judy!!! ... Nothing better than opening a thread and seeing good, informed, well researched advice being given! ... I like it! :D

-adam

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rabernet

That is correct, PAM should NEVER be sprayed directly on the snake. The treatment in the enclosure will kill any mites and eggs still on the snake when it's introduced to the treated enclosure.

I've used Reptile Relief and PAM. Reptile Relief is great for killing mites on the snake, but not the eggs and re-infestation can occur in 2-4 weeks. PAM takes away all worries for me, because I know that the eggs are being killed as well.

As for soaking, have you thought about replacing the water bowl with something smaller?

How are you measuring your temps? Is it possible it's too warm in the enclosure?

Are the hides that you are offering your snake nice and snug (can he feel the hide touching him on all sides and above?). If the hides are too large, it could be he's using the water dish as a hide, because he can "feel" the water touching him all around.

---

Fantastic post! ... Robin and Judy are tearing it up!!! ... AWESOME! :love:

-adam

Well it has happened... Went home last night and saw what i expected, the snake in the water!! I took her out right away, shes been in the water for 16hrs she was cold.. I let her warm up a bit and then I fead her... I was very surprised that she still ate..

Okay let me just get this all straight in my head.

You have two threads ongoing...this one about the snake having mites and soaking constantly...another about a possible RI with this snake.

So this snake which hopefully was treated correctly with PAM (enclosure NOT snake), hopefully has no mites now but is spending over 10 hours a day soaking in a big water dish. This snake that may have an untreated RI. That came out of it's dish cold to your touch and you subsequently "warmed up".
This is the snake that you figured needed fed! http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e2...Smiley/OMG.gif

You do realize you've now delayed a vet visit on the RI issue by a good 48 hours. You're "surprised" it ate???? I'll be surprised it keeps it down at this rate! Why would you feed if you didn't feel the snake was well enough to eat and risk a regurge which will cause your snake even more issues? You have been given excellent advice in two ongoing threads by experienced keepers/breeders which you are consistently ignoring about providing two proper hides so this snake can thermoregulate...which they MUST do to digest...as well as other issues of your husbandry that have been suggested you look at.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by frankykeno

Okay let me just get this all straight in my head.

You have two threads ongoing...this one about the snake having mites and soaking constantly...another about a possible RI with this snake.

So this snake which hopefully was treated correctly with PAM (enclosure NOT snake), hopefully has no mites now but is spending over 10 hours a day soaking in a big water dish. This snake that may have an untreated RI. That came out of it's dish cold to your touch and you subsequently "warmed up".
This is the snake that you figured needed fed! http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e2...Smiley/OMG.gif

You do realize you've now delayed a vet visit on the RI issue by a good 48 hours. You're "surprised" it ate???? I'll be surprised it keeps it down at this rate! Why would you feed if you didn't feel the snake was well enough to eat and risk a regurge which will cause your snake even more issues? You have been given excellent advice in two ongoing threads by experienced keepers/breeders which you are consistently ignoring about providing two proper hides so this snake can thermoregulate...which they MUST do to digest...as well as other issues of your husbandry that have been suggested you look at.

---

Great post!

Additionally, you were asking for vet information a week ago. Have you made an appointment yet?

CORRECTION: You started a thread on 11/14 that your snake was making popping sounds and were advised to take it to a vet. On 11/20, another thread asking about the stages of RI. On 11/21 a thread on another forum asking for information on vets in your area. Its now 11/28 and you still haven't taken the snake to the vet. Since Canada already had its Thanksgiving, you have had two full weeks to get this done. Are you going to wait until the snake is dead?

Thanks Jamie. The fact is there's been some excellent posts by Judy, Robin, yourself, and lots more folks...spending their time online trying to help this poster and his snake...even pictures included to assist him. The fact that he is outright refusing to take solid advice, given far more nicely than I can manage right now....is beyond ridiculous! This snake needs help, the owner's responsibility is to provide same in a timely manner and you are bang on that more than enough time has passed that would have allowed any reasonable person to seek vet help and adjust husbandry as advised over and over.

Additional comments: I wasn't fully aware of this timeline Jamie...thanks for posting it...makes this an even sadder case of outright neglect in my mind. :mad:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by frankykeno

Thanks Jamie. The fact is there's been some excellent posts by Judy, Robin, yourself, and lots more folks...spending their time online trying to help this poster and his snake...even pictures included to assist him. The fact that he is outright refusing to take solid advice, given far more nicely than I can manage right now....is beyond ridiculous! This snake needs help, the owner's responsibility is to provide same in a timely manner and you are bang on that more than enough time has passed that would have allowed any reasonable person to seek vet help and adjust husbandry as advised over and over.

Additional comments: I wasn't fully aware of this timeline Jamie...thanks for posting it...makes this an even sadder case of outright neglect in my mind. :mad:

---

The funny part is how can you be so sure that I did't take any advice!! Why are you so angry? Don't guess and then say I did't take any advice..

I usually get a tad upset at folks that I can pretty much put money on the fact that they aren't taking advice when multiple threads go on here (and at other sites) for days and days with no response indicating they made any changes or sought the advise of a vet! Nothing "funny" in that for me.

If you indeed bothered to do what's right by this snake, post a pic of it's improved setup and confirm it saw a vet and is under treatment. I'll be the first to apologize for my harsh post at that point. Other than that I stand by every character I typed and my opinion that any snake, normal or pricey morph, deserves the best it can get from it's human keeper.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by frankykeno

I usually get a tad upset at folks that I can pretty much put money on the fact that they aren't taking advice when multiple threads go on here (and at other sites) for days and days with no response indicating they made any changes or sought the advise of a vet! Nothing "funny" in that for me.

If you indeed bothered to do what's right by this snake, post a pic of it's improved setup and confirm it saw a vet and is under treatment. I'll be the first to apologize for my harsh post at that point. Other than that I stand by every character I typed and my opinion that any snake, normal or pricey morph, deserves the best it can get from it's human keeper.

---

Darn that stinkin spread it around message!!!!

We luv ya Jo!!! :love:

-adam

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Darn that stinkin spread it around message!!!!

We luv ya Jo!!! :love:

-adam

---

Ditto on that one!

LOL I love you both back! (and no there's no pics of this sooooo stop PMing me for them Robin! :P )

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by frankykeno

and no there's no pics of this

---

Not what I heard. :rofl:

-adam

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Not what I heard. :rofl:

-adam

---

I've got the video evidence. Its fantastic!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Not what I heard. :rofl:

-adam

---

ACCCCK you promised you'd never speak of that "lost" weekend!!!! http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e2.../LaughHard.gif