other keepers views on tub housing

since ive started keeping my monitor ive joined a few monitor forums. these forums are great for monitors but ive also seen that a lot of snake keepers that kept monitors first have way different perspectives on tubs.

they go so far as to put their boas and ball pythons in 5-6 foot high enclosures with multiple snakes to an enclosure. their reasoning is they have more "success" that way. they say their snakes are more active and climb a lot more. hmmmm?

they also say we're basically doing our animals a great disservice by housing them in tubs.

what do you say to keepers like this? one keeper in particular is the most stubborn person ive ever seen. does anyone else relize we're getting called reptile "cults" because of the way we keep our snakes?

People will do what they want reguardless of what you tell them. So I wouldn't be trying to 'turn' them over to your way of thinking.
Just stand by how you do things and hopefully they will respect that and leave you be.

ah i've been called a lot worse :P

marshall, you know how easy it is to keep your temps correct, how the humidity stays constant... and you can see that your snakes are thriving and not stressed... so i would say to them... the proof is in the pudding!

mmmm now i want rice pudding :chew:

i would leave them be its just im not the one instigating anything. its them.i need to stand up for the way i keep my reptiles but im not sure i could do it with me against a whole forum of ignorant snake keepers.

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Originally Posted by mr~python

since ive started keeping my monitor ive joined a few monitor forums. these forums are great for monitors but ive also seen that a lot of snake keepers that kept monitors first have way different perspectives on tubs.

they go so far as to put their boas and ball pythons in 5-6 foot high enclosures with multiple snakes to an enclosure. their reasoning is they have more "success" that way. they say their snakes are more active and climb a lot more. hmmmm?

they also say we're basically doing our animals a great disservice by housing them in tubs.

what do you say to keepers like this? one keeper in particular is the most stubborn person ive ever seen. does anyone else relize we're getting called reptile "cults" because of the way we keep our snakes?

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Well as long as my BP are healthy, stress free with a good feeding response and safe I don't really care what people can say about me keeping my BP in tubs.



The sad thing is that often the choice of an enclosure is made by the owner for it own pleasure and what h considers esthetic and not really with the thought of the animal well being and safety, and by housing multiple snakes together I really don’t see what they accomplish except taking unnecessary risks.

And as far as telling those people what to do I am not too sure they obviously have their own ways and probably need to learn the hard way :mad: .

marshall this is what i do. i only visit forums that i find - i share the same views with. hence why i don't go to some other snake forums who don't agree with feeding live. or mama forums that like to put their kids in schools and daycares (not meant to offend anyone) - i go places where people share my views and so i can feel comfy sharing my habits.

well in tubs, my snakes poo shed eat just fine so i could care less of what they think, if they want to keep their snakes in arboreal enclosures, and they're healthy, i can't do much about it

AND - just because this is OUR way of doing things... doesn't mean it's the ONLY way ;)

(although i am really strongly opposed to housing multiple snakes together)

When I am in another forum that opposes keeping a ball python in a tub or rack system, then I just keep my mouth shut, and use the rest of the site that I do agree with. I refuse to argue it, and if someone really pushes me(and delibritely singling out me, not just making gneeral statements) then I will say I do it this way, and it works for me, and then leave the forums if necessary. I don't feel the need to respond to everything I don't agree with. Especially when it is most of the forum's opinion opposing mine.
My snakes seem happy and content in the racks.
Wolfy

Most of those people are stuck in 'the old school ways' of keeping reptiles...they think it is necessary to house in 'naturalistic' enclosures with environments simulating the animal's environment. However....unless these people have seen the animals in their natural environment...all they can really do is 'guess' what it looks likes....which I think is rather ironic. People wanting to create a natural environment with things that are not natural to an animals surroundings in the wild.....for example, no snakes that I have ever observed in the wild were 'close' to one another like they would be if housed together.

Keeping snakes or lizards in tubs is considered the LAM (labratory animal method) of keeping reptiles. There is nothing 'natural' about it.....some people just don't like that.

It could be another 'live vs. f/t' debate if you let it....some people feel so passionately that their ways are correct that they do not even consider anyone elses methods as acceptable......if only everyone could agree that we all love reptiles and are trying what we believe is best for them.....this hobby would have alot less debates.

I use to be one of the people who wasn't to hip on the tub as a enclosure, I just had a hard time putting a reptile in something that was made to store a sweater or Christmas tree :) It was a mental thing w/ me in trying to get pass that. I never had a problem with those that chose that method to keep their repitles. As long as one practices good husbandry and takes good care of their animals that is all that really matters.

I do think that one can simulate certain reptiles natural surroundings. I mean, no, I haven't actually seen a ball python in the wild but have seen enough shows and read enough books that explain the type of surrounding they favor. With that being said, is that the best way to keep a bp or other reptile, that's a matter of choice.
With most bp's and other reps being cbb then they really don't know the difference and where never really "wild" so they I am sure could care less.

As for me and my mental block on tubs, I have gotten over that and am awaiting my rack to be delivered. Upkeep of that AP t-11 was just a killer and took up a huge amount of space and I don't think Ozzy will care one way or the other when me moves into his new home in a 1960 tub.

Like Daniel said this is like the live/ft debate and could go on forever.

I personally did not like tubs at first because I only had 2 snakes and just thought they looked way to cool to have them in tubs. Now that my collection has expanded and added 5 more snakes, racks are the perfect solution to the space issue. At first it was no problem having a single 30 gallon breeder and a homemade enclosure, but money for each enclosure and heating and rheostats etc...added up so I decided that when I was ready to get more snakes, it would be racks. For the price that I paid for my 4 tub rack, I still spent less than I paid for my custom enclosure. Buying premade plastic racks is another story though

I look at it this way. The big breeders, as well as most smaller breeders, use tubs. They have inventories of BPs that are worth more than our vehicles. So if they use tubs with great results in the care, maintenance, and breeding aspects of husbandry, I want to be using them also. I know of no large breeder who uses tanks (inform me if there is one...)

We successfully breed snakes & monitors...monitors go in walk-in cages, snakes go in racks/appropriately sized enclosures (i.e. retics) at our place & do just fine.

Not saying it's the only way to do it, but if it ain't broke...

Knowhattamean?