Cephalexin for Respiratory Infections?

I saw a posting on another site that this drug can be used for RI's? Any truth to this? Would be nice to have something that didn't require a Vet visit in the off chance it is needed?

Thanks

Personally considering the damage an RI can cause a snake I'd wouldn't "play vet" myself. A large breeder with years upon years of hands on snake experience may know enough to do some doctoring of their collection under a vet's advice but I don't think most of the average keepers out there (me included) are anywhere near experienced enough to recognize, diagnose, prescribe and treat a snake.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by frankykeno

Personally considering the damage an RI can cause a snake I'd wouldn't "play vet" myself. A large breeder with years upon years of hands on snake experience may know enough to do some doctoring of their collection under a vet's advice but I don't think most of the average keepers out there (me included) are anywhere near experienced enough to recognize, diagnose, prescribe and treat a snake.

---

I agree completely...but for a lot of us there is no close vet by and weekends, holiday's etc. not to mention travel plays a role in timing to get into a vet. If there is an option that would allow people some time to make arrangements that would be very beneficial to everyone.

We seem to tell everyone to "take them to a vet" all the time, which while the ideal solution, for alot of people it isn't an option due to cost or travel. So are we relegating our friends to a slow death if there isn't any other options?

Just a personal note....I have several huge Salt Water tanks that I can buy any med I need for (based on the conditions and symptoms of the fish) why can't I do the same for my reptiles?

I know this could be a politcal topic so please don't flame me I am just asking...or better yet playing devil's advocate. :D

Oh no intention to flame you hon and that's not something that's allowed to go on around here (we have excellent Mods and Admins that step on that pretty fast). My only concern would be that anything can sort of get jumped on by a newcomer and it becomes an option instead of heading to a vet. Any med, used incorrectly, can be dangerous or even deadly. "but I read in online, so it must be safe/true/gospel" is something we all see in various herp forums. Some of that advice is great, some of it is pure myth or someone reads something, doesn't pay full attention to all the details and ends up in trouble for short cutting the advice given. When that advice is to do with health related issues, especially meds, I think most folks err on the side of caution online.

[QUOTE=lord jackel]I agree completely...but for a lot of us there is no close vet by and weekends, holiday's etc. not to mention travel plays a role in timing to get into a vet. If there is an option that would allow people some time to make arrangements that would be very beneficial to everyone.

We seem to tell everyone to "take them to a vet" all the time, which while the ideal solution, for alot of people it isn't an option due to cost or travel. So are we relegating our friends to a slow death if there isn't any other options?


IMO one should not have an animal that they can't care for , I do understand your point, just my :2cent:.

There are times when a keeper will have to treat their own snakes, but you better know exactly what your doing. Your herp vet. knows what it takes to properly treat your snake. I would suggest for-taz or baytril at the exact dose rates.


Would always recommend seeing a herp vet. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ECLARK

There are times when a keeper will have to treat their own snakes, but you better know exactly what your doing. Your herp vet. knows what it takes to properly treat your snake. I would suggest for-taz or baytril at the exact dose rates.


Would always recommend seeing a herp vet. :)

---

That is my point exactly...there are always times when circumstances warrant a keeper treating his animals (for there benefit...not the keepers) and I feel having the basic information available to everyone is better than experimenting and risk further hurting the animal.

Just my thoughts and wanted to see whatever one else was thinking on the topic.

But I will always agree and recommend if possible a Vet is the best option.

Im more and more sure my snake is coming down with something. Reptile Vets cost like $80 just to VISIT. THen + medication ect. Any other advice besides raising the temp and seeing a Vet?

(YA I KNO I NEED TO DO IT! I JUST FINISHED FINALS AND ITS SATURDAY!)
:(

There is no easy way when dealing with your animal's health. Don't experiment, don't play doctor. Take the animal to a vet, get it cultured and get prescribed the right meds to get it well. If you can't afford a vet visit, you shouldn't own an animal.

Thats true but sometimes people are in financial crams!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Regal Boids

Thats true but sometimes people are in financial crams!

---

That is an unacceptable excuse. I have many snakes, lizards, rats and cats. If one needs a vet visit, regardless of my financial situation, they go. If you can't afford the needs of an animal, buy a plant.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jglass38

That is an unacceptable excuse. I have many snakes, lizards, rats and cats. If one needs a vet visit, regardless of my financial situation, they go. If you can't afford the needs of an animal, buy a plant.

---

I am sorry but I disagree with this statement. Taking care of the day to day needs of an animal is one thing having instant access to what to some is large amounts of cash/credit is completely different. Not everyone can afford a $100 vet bill with no notice. We have to keep in mind that a lot (most I would guess) reptile owners are young and therefore not financially secure.

Telling them to "buy a plant" won't work and it won't stop anyone...so what are the options?

My take is that we as responsible, seasoned reptile owners need to help those that cannot (for whatever reason) help their pet with vet care. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lord jackel

I am sorry but I disagree with this statement. Taking care of the day to day needs of an animal is one thing having instant access to what to some is large amounts of cash/credit is completely different. Not everyone can afford a $100 vet bill with no notice. We have to keep in mind that a lot (most I would guess) reptile owners are young and therefore not financially secure.

Telling them to "buy a plant" won't work and it won't stop anyone...so what are the options?

My take is that we as responsible, seasoned reptile owners need to help those that cannot (for whatever reason) help their pet with vet care. :)

---

If you can't afford to take care of an animal in the best way possible, then you shouldn't own one. How should we help those that can't afford it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jglass38

If you can't afford to take care of an animal in the best way possible, then you shouldn't own one. How should we help those that can't afford it?

---

Don't get me wrong I agree with you - you should plan for the needs of whatever animal you plan to have.

But here is a story on why I bring this up - A large stray dog jumped my fence and mauled my little dog...the vet bill was over $1000 which I didn't have. Does this mean I should never have bought my dog because I knew from the get go a larger dog could one day hurt my little dog?

People plan for food, bedding, heat, humidity (just look at all the questions we get) but who plans for a $100 vet bill?

What should we do you ask...my recommendation is offer experience to those that need it. What has worked to help with an RI? My guess is that RI are caused by mostly the same bug so what med is prescribed, how administered?, etc.

What started this thread is that in the KS classifieds is a guy selling this drug for $85 that he says "is quickly becoming the main med for getting rid of RI". True/Not True?

But people are going to buy it or another anibiotic regardless of how often we say "take them to a vet" so why not offer some usefull experience...for the snakes benefit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jglass38

There is no easy way when dealing with your animal's health. Don't experiment, don't play doctor. Take the animal to a vet, get it cultured and get prescribed the right meds to get it well. .

---

I'd also like to add that a large group of herp owners self-medicating their animals without first getting a culture done will cause resistance to the Cephalexin drug to increase much faster than necessary. Its called evolution baby! And our microbial friends can do it much faster than we can because of their short generation times!

The unnecessary overuse of antibiotics is a major reason for antibiotic resistance! That's why the newest synthesized generation of antibiotics are closely guarded by health professionals!

Cephalexin belongs to a class of antibiotics called Cephalosporins.

If your animals RI is caused by some types of gram-negative bacteria or a virus , then you are wasting this drug and contributing to the unnecessary growth of antibiotic resistance. The history of medicine and health care has shown us even the professionals cant just prescribe without doing a culture first!

Adam's 8ball advice is best.... "Effective treatment begins with a culture of the infected area to help identify the most effective anti-biotic needed."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mendel's Balls

I'd also like to add that a large group of herp owners self-medicating their animals without first getting a culture done will cause resistance to the Cephalexin drug to increase much faster than necessary. Its called evolution baby! And our microbial friends can do it much faster than we can because of their short generation times!

The unnecessary overuse of antibiotics is a major reason for antibiotic resistance! That's why the newest synthesized generation of antibiotics are closely guarded by health professionals!

Cephalexin is belongs to a class of antibiotics called Cephalosporins.

If your animals RI is caused by some types of gram-negative bacteria or a virus , then you are wasting this drug and contributing to the unnecessary growth of antibiotic resistance. The history of medicine and health care has shown us even the professionals cant just prescribe without doing a culture first!

Adam's 8ball advice is best.... "Effective treatment begins with a culture of the infected area to help identify the most effective anti-biotic needed."

---

Exactly and well put. Not all RIs are caused by the same bacteria. A culture is necessary and wildly medicating is not the answer. :rockon:

As a doctor I really *really* don't think it is a good idea for people to be doling out cephalosporins on an ad hoc basis to their pets - antibiotic reistance is a major problem and cephalosporins are too important to waste!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kurgan

As a doctor I really *really* don't think it is a good idea for people to be doling out cephalosporins on an ad hoc basis to their pets - antibiotic reistance is a major problem and cephalosporins are too important to waste!

---

Playing Devil's Advocate :slamhead:

Aren't most ball pythons in a closed environment (ie. it isn't like the go to school with a bunch of other snakes where they could pass it on:D ) so the likelihood of spreading a cephalosprin resistant bug around is very very small?

Does this mean most people agree that for those that have financial issues and are unable to obtain vet help...it is just too bad and we are willing to let the snake die a slow and painful death.

Yet we are appaled with pet shop/newbie care and bad heating/humidity control and are willing to offer all the help we can to fix the problem so the snake doesn't suffer.

Seems like a double standard and very elitest.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lord jackel

Playing Devil's Advocate :slamhead:

Aren't most ball pythons in a closed environment (ie. it isn't like the go to school with a bunch of other snakes where they could pass it on:D ) so the likelihood of spreading a cephalosprin resistant bug around is very very small?

Does this mean most people agree that for those that have financial issues and are unable to obtain vet help...it is just too bad and we are willing to let the snake die a slow and painful death.

Yet we are appaled with pet shop/newbie care and bad heating/humidity control and are willing to offer all the help we can to fix the problem so the snake doesn't suffer.

Seems like a double standard and very elitest.

---

Im not sure what answer you are looking for or what exactly is elitist in your mind. You have been given the reasons why just treating with medication without medical supervision or proper culturing is a bad idea. What help would you like experienced keepers to give people who can't do the right thing for their animals? There is no welfare system for our pets.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lord jackel

Playing Devil's Advocate :slamhead:

Aren't most ball pythons in a closed environment (ie. it isn't like the go to school with a bunch of other snakes where they could pass it on:D ) so the likelihood of spreading a cephalosprin resistant bug around is very very small?

Does this mean most people agree that for those that have financial issues and are unable to obtain vet help...it is just too bad and we are willing to let the snake die a slow and painful death.

Yet we are appaled with pet shop/newbie care and bad heating/humidity control and are willing to offer all the help we can to fix the problem so the snake doesn't suffer.

Seems like a double standard and very elitest.

---

Unless you are working in Andromedra strain style isolation there is simply no such thing as a closed environment for bacteria.

On a personal level I have a lot of sympathy for anyone who is unable to obtain vet help - here in the UK at least there are charities that will help with most emergency care.
At its most basic level though, yes I would rather a BP die of RI than a child dies of resistant meningococcal septicaemia.

I'm not a vet and I am woefully ignorant of much of the detail here - I have no idea what organisms generally cause RI in BPs and therefore if cephalosporins are even effective therapy.

Some antibiotics must simply be held back for the greater good.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jglass38

Im not sure what answer you are looking for or what exactly is elitist in your mind. You have been given the reasons why just treating with medication without medical supervision or proper culturing is a bad idea. What help would you like experienced keepers to give people who can't do the right thing for their animals? There is no welfare system for our pets.

---

Honestly, I am not really looking for any particular answer but more the thoughts on the topic that everyone has...and for this I thank everyone that has responded.

My point has always been that there are people selling "cures" for RI and other aliments that are effectively praying on the less fortunate who find themselves trying to do the right thing but unable to afford it. In other pet forums help is offered as it relates to meds. (ie. fish you can buy just about any drug you want/need (including anitbiotics) at any pet store in the country) (ie. rats - mycoplasmosis can be cured with antibiotics bought over the counter) but snakes - take them to the vet or let them die is the answer.

No harm/no foul I was just curious why - not to mention no one has really responded with any type of affirmation that they want this help so appears to be a mute point anyway.:cool:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kurgan

Unless you are working in Andromedra strain style isolation there is simply no such thing as a closed environment for bacteria.

On a personal level I have a lot of sympathy for anyone who is unable to obtain vet help - here in the UK at least there are charities that will help with most emergency care.
At its most basic level though, yes I would rather a BP die of RI than a child dies of resistant meningococcal septicaemia.

I'm not a vet and I am woefully ignorant of much of the detail here - I have no idea what organisms generally cause RI in BPs and therefore if cephalosporins are even effective therapy.

Some antibiotics must simply be held back for the greater good.

---

This is an interesting point...does anyone know if ball python bateria strains are transmittable to humans? I know samonila but others? If so this could be even a bigger concern for keepers. Your BP RI could end up killing you.

There is a middle of the road answer here folks. Have a a pre-existing relationship with your herp vet, which to be honest you should anyways. If you owned a dog you wouldn't wait for it to be hit by a car before wondering if a vet exists to deal with it, so think before and find that herp vet. Invest in one office visit, build a relationship.

If you are in financial straits and your snake needs help, for heaven's sakes forget your pride. Phone the vet, ask for a payment plan, ask if they have any programs for emergency bills or lower income owners (our vet in Michigan did...it came out of a fund mostly willed to them by grateful past customers)....offer to clean cages...whatever it takes. If the vet has at least met you once, seen your committment to your snake(s), they are more willing to defer immediate payment in an emergency situation.

If you are a younger owner and worried about a possible large bill coming up suddenly...how about planning ahead. Pick your herp vet, go in and speak with them about doing work at the clinic to build a credit with them. That could be walking patients, cleaning cages, sweeping and cleaning the office, whatever. Agree in a value for your work and have a credit line built and most importantly...do the job, show up, work hard. Then if something comes up....you are covered (also if they see you are a dedicated and hard worker around the clinic, you may well receive a discount on services). My ex-husband worked for a vet all through high school as a general helper....even 10 years later, she still gave us a discount on her services.

My point here is don't wait for that bad RI to suddenly show up then go looking for a vet or buy some meds off the internet. There are ways to plan ahead and work with your vet so you have the best outcome for your snake.