Issues with Puppy Obedience Training

Okay folks I need your wisdom here, I'm at my wits end.

Gunnar our female, spayed Boxer/Labrador mix is about 8 months old. Not a great age for pups I know, sort of their teenage time and all that but it's getting ridiculous around here. I'm hoping some of you can offer suggestions so it doesn't get to the point of considering rehoming her.

Gunnar has always been a bit stubborn and hard headed. She's extremely smart but will "argue" commands and is not the nice calm submissive dog we are trying to raise here. It's more than just being a puppy and it's getting worse as she's growing. Here's some of her problems and what we've done to try and resolve things....

1) She will go and urinate on our bed (Mike and mine). This is done very deliberately as she is housetrained (though that was a HUGE struggle...worst pup I've ever had that way). She would go out of her way to go through a number of rooms, down a hallway just to do this! She is no longer allowed in the master bedroom at all due to this. She will then for no reason we can see....occasionally urinate on our couch even if we are right there. Is this a marking behaviour? She is rarely allowed on the couch due to this. It's not just a little bit of pee by the way.

2) She is extremely jealous of anyone in the family paying attention to each other and not her. She will jump up constantly, nose you, paw you (that hurts) and even literally sit on Mikey to stop me cuddling my own son. She's especially jealous if Mike and I dare to try to even sit together to watch a movie. If we put her in her puppy cage, she barks hysterically. When disciplined for barking...she immediately barks louder. It is not a whining type bark, it has tons of dominance and demand to it.

3) She will not leave anyone alone if they have food. This I understand, she is after all a puppy. When we eat however or even snack on chips we have to lock her in the puppy cage which then results in the above loud and constant barking. My Thanksgiving buffet today will be hell *sigh*

4) She fights any type of restraint while walking. I have recently put her in a halter style head collar and she's much improved. She is fighting the halter but that's to be expected. I'm also using it in the house on lead to try and control her dominating me me me behaviours to some success.

5) We have problems having anyone come to our home. She will not stop jumping and demanding attention from the visitor, if we remove her from the room she barks insistently, paws at doors and carpets (and has done damage to both which as a renter isn't good for us). She does jump a lot and is totally uncaring if we try to raised knee thing (she just bounces hard off our knees, and jumps more...hurts our knees more than her I think).

6) We have to keep her puppy cage in a room where she cannot see us because she will not settle in the cage even if she's been out for a walk and loose in the house for hours and hours with us. As soon as she's in the cage it's an all out war to see who is more stubborn. We do have to give in at some point as we do not want complaints to our landlord over her barking, whining and howling. She is however quiet and happy in her cage with her toys while we are at work (so the neighbours tell us...she's so loud they can hear her outside and next door!)

Gunnar isn't a dog that's left alone all that much. Mike and I are often home with her. She's not sitting in a cage day after day or anything like that. She has toys always in there with her when we do have to cage her and her cage is very roomy for her size. Mike was spoiling her a bit but has since realized that is making it worse and is disciplining and correcting her with me but it's just like she's too bullheaded to listen.

We love Gunnar and want some ideas here. She's making our life very difficult right now and we are worried a landlord issue will come up. We cannot tie her outside as an option to the cage as our yard is not fenced and in Toledo we have a lot of dogs stolen for bait dogs for dog fighting. I've had dogs before and always had happy, well trained dogs even as puppies but Gunnar is amazingly stubborn and just doesn't seem to care if she's in trouble. I'd swear she was just not quite smart except the little turd can pick up commands so easily (she learned sit in one 15 minute training session when she was only 4 months old!) Show her a treat and she's Miss Manners but heck I cannot spend my life dispensing dog treats to this spoiled, stubborn brat dog! (sorry I am very frustrated with her today especially)

Sorry for the long post folks.

I have had some of the same problems that you are having and while I am no expert, I can offer some tricks that worked for us.


1.) Is your puppy fixed? Do you see her squat when she pees on the bed and couch or do you just see the pee there after she has been lying down? Our Shep/Lab mix would leave pee marks on the couch and bed, but we only noticed it when she was lying down. Turns out she has incontnence issues which are associated with large breed females after being spayed. We have to give her Proin 50 for the rest of her life to help with incontinence, but no problems since then.

2,3,5.) Give this a try. Put some coins in a metal can and tape the lid on the can. When she does any behavior that you don't like shake the can at her and say no at the same time. This worked for us. It confused our dog a little, but after about a week of this, the behavior stopped. (This was recommended by our vet.)

4.) The head collar is a great tool. We used it and had great success. Also when your pup starts to pull the lead immediately change directions. This should let your pup know who is in charge. Keep doing this until she gets the idea. It may take awhile, but it works, just be patient.

6.) The dog should see its kennel as a safe place to be. Right now your dog associates the kennel with punishment. Try training sessions where you toss a treat into the kennel, when she goes in to get it, give her lots of praise. Again, you want to do this as a training session.

One more thing. I have found that training sessions with young dogs are best kept to about 10-15 minutes as their attention span is limited.

Once again, i'm no expert, just offering tips that have worked for my dogs.

Good Luck

Call the dog whisperer ;)

I wish I could help sorry.

Maybe it is being kenneled too long? I couldn't imagine kenneling my dog for 8 hours during the day and 8 hours overnight... that's more than half the day...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by frankykeno

Gunnar our female, spayed Boxer/Labrador mix is about 8 months old.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RockSolid

Is your puppy fixed?

---

:stupidme: Sorry I missed that. I was watchin' football and reading the thread at the same time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rapture

Maybe it is being kenneled too long? I couldn't imagine kenneling my dog for 8 hours during the day and 8 hours overnight... that's more than half the day...

---

Oh sorry I should have been more specific. Due to Mike's late evening hours and my early riser habits Gunnar is never in the kennel at night for more than about 4 hours. Neither of us work a standard 9 to 5 thing so mostly there is always someone home with Gunnar so she's never been kennelled day or night for any really long period of time. I think in some ways always having one of her humans around may be contributing to this constant need to be with us or demand we be with her.

The urination is a full on peeing not a dribbling thing. She only does this on items of furniture that Mike and I use so would carry our scent (our bed, our couch, Mike's favorite chair), never on our kids stuff. Can't quite figure out why she'd pee on our stuff and it's not all the time but it's very frustrating and a lot of work to scrub up after one of her incidents.

Excellent tips Jeff...just the sort of stuff we are looking for. Thanks! I will try that can trick, I've done it with stubborn cats but for some reason didn't think of it with the pup. We actually just had our Thanksgiving buffet and she was pretty well behaved. We kennelled her (she kept trying to get up at the food put out on the table) but left on the head collar and sort of draped her leash out of the bars. She actually was quite calm so I guess she thought she was still on the leash or something.

I think I read somewhere that keeping her on the leash and head collar even when "loose" in the house (loose but under leash control) should help her accept our leadership better so we are also going to concentrate on that and see if it helps somewhat. We are very determined to try and help Gunnar and get her through this stage. I'm just far more used to Labs and their need to please and easier training....maybe Boxers are just more bullheaded and opinionated LOL.

First and foremost, you are spoiling her. You need to take control. The reason she begs for food, is that you give her food. No one should have to lock the dog up to eat.
You need to establish that you are in charge, by not allowing the behavior.
No getting on the couch. No jumping up on you. Don't yell and fuss at her when she jumps up, simply push her away, and ignore her. When you want to snuggle your son, do so,a nd ignore her, if she is pushing in, push her away, tell her no. A sharp hist! will work better than out-shouting her, as shouting is just going to make it a game.
When she is acting calm, you can give her attention. No treats to make her behave, she has trained YOU to give her treats. Consistancy is the absolute key. Both you and your husband have to agree. When you come home, do you make a huge fuss? You are teaching her to act wild to get attention. Be calma nd pretty much ignore her until she calms, then pat her and swcratch her. Make her sit to get attention, and work on one or two things at a time. How does she get exercise? She NEEDS loads of exercise. A walk, won't do it for a atlethic breed like a boxer(or in this case a boxer mix). Get her to jog beside a bike. Teach her to walk on a leash properly too. Leash training is simple.
One chain coller, one 6 foot leash. Attach properly to dog. Go outside. Start walking and when the dog passes your leg, turn around. The dog will hit the end of the leash, come up short, whirl around and head the new direction. Again, when he passes your leg, turn around. What you are teaching is that you are unpredictable, and that the dog needs to pay attention to YOU. Once you can walk with her beside you, you can refine that to heeling, NEVER NEVER hold the dog nearby you! That ends up being nothing more than a tug-of-war. You let the dog go,a nd tug them back into position, then give them slack. If they move out, a tug back then slack. You MUST give them the opportunity to make the mistake, so you can correct it. Note that I do NOT say SNATCH them back, only tug them back to position. The slip chain collar is to prevent them from backing out of it, and it give enough of a tug consistantly.
Start with that, I've retrained tons of dogs. Be in control, and they will behave.
Wolfy

I don't have any significant experience in this area myself....but maybe you could call the closest large-city ASPCA...where they do specialized training of traumatized, rescued dogs to make them suitable for adoption. I'm sure they may have a number of tried-n-true methods for helping really stubborn dogs learn who is in control.


Sorry I don't have more specific advice than that. From everything I know of you, Jo, I know you're doing all you can, and will strive to do even more to make sure Gunnar has a healthy, happy home. Patience and perseverance will get ya there!

And when you're most at your wits end...pick up a book called Marley & Me by John Grogan. I think you'd love every single page of it!!

Thanks for the suggestions Wolfy and Judy. I know she needs a firmer hand but I've seriously never dealt with a dog this flat out butt stubborn and I believe I'm very firm with her actually (way more firm than I've ever had to be with any dog I've owned). We do push her away when she jumps, she just continues again and again to jump, claw at us and generally become impossible. She will literally jump into our faces and slap at us with her front paws (not a nice experience at all!) She does not get the point that she can't be in control which personally I've not seen in a pup of this age. My labradors might have been goofy and a bit stupid at this age, but they didn't do this constant dominance thing with me. It's exhausting dealing with her lately. She was a lovely pup at first but in the last couple of months is becoming quite an impossible brat.

We've tried ignoring her when we arrive home, or ignoring her when she demands attention by loud barking. She just barks louder. We've tried the sharp SHHH type abrupt sound, she quiets for a few moments (usually only seconds), then immediately starts up barking again. We've walked her and run her through the house tossing her toys, playing with her, trying to just sit with her quietly and she just never seems to have enough attention or exercise to bring her to anything resembling a calm state unless she basically feels like a nap *sigh*. Even if we just sit her beside the couch, she will NOT keep her feet on the floor and constantly and repeatedly paws and attempts to climb on us. Watching tv with her is not a fun or relaxing activity.

I could understand it if the poor thing was home alone for hours a day locked up or ignored and tied outside but that's just not the case. She's always had companionship around the house and was a lovely puppy but now...argh! I'm hoping this is just a really horrible stage and that we can work with her through it (before the landlord hears about this barking issue from the other tenants). I've always had such nicely trained dogs (which I trained myself so I do know something about this having rehabbed more than one abused dog) but none of the things I know are working here with her. She was not an abused puppy. We got her healthy and lovely but she's maturing into a seemingly very dominant minded female.

By the way, we don't give her food. We don't feed dogs from the table or from our hands while snacking. She's never had food other than in her dish or treats given during puppy training or the occasional special treat (in her bowl). She doesn't even beg for the food Wolfy, she goes after it in a very dominant attitude or simply makes so much trouble we cage her to get a meal in peace (not quiet though unfortunately). We cannot even have a bowl of popcorn watching a movie at this point because she simply will not heed any command to leave us be from the constant push for either food or attention (neither of which she lacks for).

Thanks goodness she shows no biting type aggression at this point. If she ever did, with kids in the house, that would have to be the last straw for me. Her dominanting behaviour though does not seem to go that far but I'm concerned that if we can't get her under control now...she may mature into a biter.

It sounds a lot like you are trying to exercise her in the house... with a large dog like that, don't you think she could use some hardcore outside activity? Take her outside and play fetch with her for an hour or so if you don't want to take her running. Usually if I take my dog somewhere with me or do something with him that requires a lot of activity on his side, by the time we get back home or back inside... he's pretty pooped.

Either outside, or on a treadmill.
And the feet thing is a boxer thing. Its how they got the name. I think a lot of it might just be simply pent-up energy. Run her beside a bike, or on a treadmill. It is the worst time of life for one, with the huge energy, and goofy body control.
It will just take a lot of work. It might be best to take her to a training class,a nd then do all the training exercises at home a lot too, WHILE giving her tons of exercise. Boxers need a lot.
Wolfy

My only suggestion would be to grab her and put her on her back. When she starts jumping or exhibiting behavior you would like to stop, then push her down and keep her on her back until she submits. Once she is calm, you can praise her and let her up. It's not hurtful, but can be difficult with bigger dogs. Of course, I can't rememeber where I go that though.

I hope you can get her under control. There's nothing more frustrating than a dog that becomes destructive and/or aggressive. :hug:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tigerlily

My only suggestion would be to grab her and put her on her back. When she starts jumping or exhibiting behavior you would like to stop, then push her down and keep her on her back until she submits. Once she is calm, you can praise her and let her up. It's not hurtful, but can be difficult with bigger dogs. Of course, I can't rememeber where I go that though.

I hope you can get her under control. There's nothing more frustrating than a dog that becomes destructive and/or aggressive. :hug:

---

that is considered and Alpha roll and you should NEVER do that

not only are you using unnessasary negative reinforment but you are sending mixed signals.

What makes you think a dog is going to respond well to first being thrown on it's back then to be praised? All you will do is scare your dog into thinking you are going to hurt it.

jo,

it sounds like she's attempting to be dominant. have you tried contacting a professional trainer? there are ones in my area who will come to your home... spend a couple of hours with you and your dog for $40.

my girlfriend was having nightmare experiences with her little 9 month old pup and the trainer made a HUGE difference!

and... it was so easy. once the dog was behaving for the trainer and my friend could see that... and was told how to achieve it herself... it removed soooo much stress.

hope everything works out.

I agree..
contacting a professional trainer would be your best option

Really? I've never heard anything bad associated with it, but I'm not a behavioral expert. I don't see where it's negative reinforcement, as I don't beat them or yell at them. Why would the dog associate it with being hurt? There would be no pain involved? I've done it with both of my dogs as they had to learn to lay still, so I would be able to trim their nails.

here is a little info on alpha rolling

What is an Alpha Roll?

An Alpha Roll is the act of flipping your dog onto his back, and holding his throat. Supposedly this will teach him that YOU are Alpha, and he will respect you for this.
Wrong.

Why The Apha Roll Is Dangerous

"The only reason that a dog will FORCEFULLY flip another dog over on its back is to kill the animal. By forcing an animal to submit in that way you are literally putting the fear of death into them, they think you are trying to kill them. It is not surprising that a lot of people get bit trying to do the alpha roll - the dog believes that the human is trying to kill them so they try and defend themselves. Doing this behavior to an already dominant animal can increase the likelihood of aggression. Doing this to an already submissive animal will increase the fear in that animal - leading to submissive urination and possible fear biting. Hands should never, ever be used to hurt an animal - an alpha roll does just that and its efficacy at asserting dominance is next to zero."



so even if you aren't grabbing the throat of the dog it still may feel vulnerable and be scared of you

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by joyful girl

here is a little info on alpha rolling

What is an Alpha Roll?

An Alpha Roll is the act of flipping your dog onto his back, and holding his throat. Supposedly this will teach him that YOU are Alpha, and he will respect you for this.
Wrong.

Why The Apha Roll Is Dangerous

"The only reason that a dog will FORCEFULLY flip another dog over on its back is to kill the animal. By forcing an animal to submit in that way you are literally putting the fear of death into them, they think you are trying to kill them. It is not surprising that a lot of people get bit trying to do the alpha roll - the dog believes that the human is trying to kill them so they try and defend themselves. Doing this behavior to an already dominant animal can increase the likelihood of aggression. Doing this to an already submissive animal will increase the fear in that animal - leading to submissive urination and possible fear biting. Hands should never, ever be used to hurt an animal - an alpha roll does just that and its efficacy at asserting dominance is next to zero."



so even if you aren't grabbing the throat of the dog it still may feel vulnerable and be scared of you

---

Thanks for the info. That's very interesting. Can you give me the source of that info. I would love to read up on that. I've never had any of those problems with my dogs, but I won't be giving out that advice again. I'm almost positive that advise came from a vet that I worked with though.

i've read it as well christie... i'd like the source of the info as well ;)

here is the actual link to the section I posted http://dogs.about.com/cs/basictraining/a/alpha_roll.htm

but there is a lot more info here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_roll

and here http://www.grca-nrc.org/GAP-TrainingC2.pdf

Using negative reinforcement training used to be how most people thought it should be done. Now after finally realizing that it really doesn't help people are using postive reinforcement more and more.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by joyful girl

here is the actual link to the section I posted http://dogs.about.com/cs/basictraining/a/alpha_roll.htm

but there is a lot more info here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_roll

and here http://www.grca-nrc.org/GAP-TrainingC2.pdf

Using negative reinforcement training used to be how most people thought it should be done. Now after finally realizing that it really doesn't help people are using postive reinforcement more and more.

---

Awesome. That's exactly what I was looking for. :sweeet: Thank you.

you're welcome!

We do exercise her a lot in the house (it's old and has huge rooms) because we can't play fetch outside with her. Our yard is unfenced and she runs off completely ignoring any command to come back if we ever allow her offlead. We also have problems with a lot of loose or tied in open yards dogs here so we have to keep her under strict control outside the house for her own safety. In the house she knows this command and responds quite nicely, outside she will end up dead under the wheels of a car or in a dog fight if she's offlead (she tends to be quite aggressive with certain dogs even when they are many times her size). I've yet to find any kind of dog park here in Toledo. She does however get walked on lead but we will have to see if we can up this to burn off even more of her energy.

Since starting her on the head collar we are seeing a marked improvement (she picks up things very fast when she wants to). She fought it a lot but her walks yesterday where much better and easier on my shoulder. We kept her in the head collar and on lead at home all day yesterday and she was much more calm but of course she always is when she's glued to our sides.

She's not by the way a big dog at all. She's actually very strong but still just a pup and isn't built in a way that suggests she'll be particularily large for her breed (mix).

Anyone figure out about this peeing issue. I'd love to leave her out of her cage to sleep loose at night but I really hate replacing our mattress or couch. We had a dog years ago that would deliberately pee on our bed and the vet could only suggest it was jealousy over a new baby in the house (he would go do this when I sat down to nurse my newborn son).

We've never done the alpha roll with her. I have tried scruffing her and she submits then immediately jumps up, bounces all over us and completely misses the whole point of it so we gave up on that way to show her whose in charge.

Forgot to mention, when I'm up in the early morning hours alone, she's absolutely fine. She comes out of her cage, greets me fairly calmly, we go out for our morning walk and tree peeing thing and then she goes off to have breakfast, a drink and lays down quietly or plays/chews her squeeky toys happily. The problems start when everyone else gets up and interacts with each other. Then she becomes a different dog, forcing herself on everyone and acting out constantly to get attention. Late at night when Mike gets in from work and he's one on one with her, again she's calm and lovely to be around. She's completely impossible when company comes over, new people in the house seem to drive her to a frenzy of look at me, pet me bad behaviours. We've tried having company greet her on lead and all the other tricks I've seen or read about but in the end she just won't calm down and it's quite awful to have friends over right now.

She did better last night with the head collar/leash on though she had to actually flip herself over a few times realizing she couldn't fight her way loose to bounce all over the family. We were able to visit with family without as much constant interruption by Gunnar (no one ended up scratched and licked to death either....this is a good thing!)

I guess my frustration is that Gunnar is so darned smart that I can't figure out why she is causing so many problems. She obviously can be a nice pup as evidenced in the above paragraph. Also when I do training with her and she knows I have a pocket of treats she's amazing...immediately doing all activities and even trying to anticipate the commands to get the treats. She knows what's up and craves attention so why would she keep doing things that get her in trouble? I know she's a young dog but you'd think eventually being a smart pup she'd figure out that acting up isn't working really well.

You have it backwards...it's not that "she's so smart that this should be easy", it's "she's so smart that she's testing every way possible to control the household".

Sounds like a real hard-headed brat dog, and if she's repeating a behavior, it's because it's been successful for her in the past. With most dogs, the standard positive reinforcement stuff will work, but it's not right for every dog and in a situation like this I would use far more negative corrections. If you look at the way one dog controls another in a situation like that, there will be agressive posturing, barking, and yes, biting.

I have used a modified alpha roll (I put them on their sides, not their backs) on dominant pushy dogs...there's no playing, no tentative handling...you go with the full force of the righteous, and -put- the dog down firmly. They should feel the power and understand that you could hurt them easily. Of course, you don't hurt them...you put them -hard- on the ground and you hold them until they relax. If they struggle, you put them back hard. It's not a game they can play at...it's simply a fact of life that if you want them to be on the ground, that's where they'll be.

Once they relax and settle, take your hand away...if the dog tries to get up, put it back hard. Repeat until the dog acquiesces to your dominance. When the dog is calm, stroke and praise it for a few minutes and then allow it to get up.

This is not cruel, it's not inhumane, it's using normal canine interactions and body language to communicate to her that you are tired of putting up with her nonsense. Adult dogs discipline puppies like this all the time. A female will have no hesitation in correcting rowdy puppies, and as the leader of your pack, neither should you.

This will only work if you absolutely believe that you have the right to exert your will over the dogs. Until that time, this dog will continue to walk all over you.

As far as exercise goes, you cannot run her enough to tire her out at this age without risking damage to her joints. Running, jogging, etc, are all contraindicated in young large breed animals, since they have so much weight riding on joints not yet hardened. Walking is good, but I doubt you have time to walk her for the hours she'd need. Concentrate on being her boss, and get as much varied exercise as your schedule allows.

Edit: Forgot to add, I looooove headcollars. They give you so much more control, both physically and psychologically.

when we first got our bordie collie husky cross... the trainer suggested we get mental stimulation for him... they said this is almost as good as physical stimulation. so we picked up two gerbils and put them in a tank... and let him watch them. he loved it and calmed right down.

our other dog... a toy poodle... he wanted to be dominant over me (as i'm the boss in our home) and so, whenever i came into a room (from outside) he would pee.

in the end we rehomed him because we could not get his behaviour to stop and peeing everytime i come into the house is NOT good. in his new home... he hasn't peed once! (friggin' dog :( )

The scruffing I mentioned Jess is what you are describing. We just grab her firmly by the scruff and put her into a submissive posture and give her a sharp, though not hurtful, shake. Unfortunately for this very stubborn dog it just doesn't work for more than the few seconds we do it.

I will say the head collar and taking a firmer hand with her is amazing! Today she's been just wonderful, even off the leash in the house. When she starts getting wound up I just quickly put her back into the head collar and clip the leash on and she is getting the idea I'm done with this pushy brat behaviour. I can more easily control her leaping for attention with it and walking her today was a dream (even when a squirrel ran in front of her). I've been reinforcing the cage as a good thing by having her enter it and giving her a small bit of turkey if she goes in quietly and doesn't fuss when the door is shut. I'm actually typing this while she's loose in the house and she's not jumping on Mikey or being otherwise obnoxious! She has tried to lay on top of Mikey twice but did respond when ordered to get down off the couch where he was resting and watching tv (usually I have to physically haul her off him).

She did start some hysterical barking in her cage today while we were having lunch but I just clipped on the head collar, fed the leash out of the cage and everytime she barked I gave the leash a yank and SHHHHed at her sharply. Really seemed to make an impression and she gave up a lot quicker and settled for a rest while we ate.

Early days yet but thanks for all the suggestions and the support. Hopefully we'll continue to see improvement. I'm hoping one day she'll even be trustworthy on the couch and in our room. I'm thinking the peeing on the bed and couch are jealousy or dominance behaviours so maybe that can be worked with once we (and she) sort out the rest of the house and her place in it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by joyful girl

that is considered and Alpha roll and you should NEVER do that

not only are you using unnessasary negative reinforment but you are sending mixed signals.

What makes you think a dog is going to respond well to first being thrown on it's back then to be praised? All you will do is scare your dog into thinking you are going to hurt it.

---

When dealing with out of control animals I have used the alpha roll with great success. I have retrained and placed in wonderful homes MANY great danes that were slated to be put down because of agressive behavior. When done properly it is a great tool. Non of the animals I worked with feared me. Most dogs don't need to be taken that far, but I would rather use a more extreme measure than put a difficult or so-called viscious dog down. What do you think pack animals do to keep peace within the pack? Your idea may work for you, but believe me, if the wrong animal comes along all I can say is good luck.

You have all my respect Nancy for dealing with an aggressive dog as large as a Great Dane.

For those that might be reading this and aren't familar with head collars for dogs here's a pic I just snapped of Gunnar in hers. Sorry it's so fuzzy. It was a bit hard to snap her picture while she wiggled and gleefully tried to lick the digi cam lense LOL. She looks a bit put out in the pic since I'd just corrected her for said wiggling and licking but she did manage to sit for the pic. The blue collar is her standard one and holds her license tags but for now we are exclusively using the black head collar with the lead.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e2...headcollar.jpg

Halti Head collars are wonderful for walking.
Glad to hear things are going well.
Wolfy

Sounds like you’re doing everything perfectly. I raise, show, train and rescue Cane Corso's, which are an extremely dominate large breed dog. They are in the mastiff family. I personally never ever use the alpha roll or the head collar, but I know a lot of people that do with great success. I train with prong collars and if use correctly they are very effective. I also use a squirt bottle filled with water and a very small amount of vinegar. They hate it and one or two squirts after being told to knock it off usually fixes the problem. My dogs are very much part of our family and all of them live inside. We don't permit any of them on the furniture uninvited and never on the beds. My rescues are my biggest challenge. They are rescues for a reason. Usually abused, neglected, aggressive, and/or no training what so ever. Lots of them are thrown away breeders that have been kept as kennel dogs their whole life so I have to start from the beginning with them. Consistency is the key to have a well behaved dog. Keep up the good work, and good luck. She is a very pretty girl.

I think that in her doninant behavior, she sees herself as "bigger" than you.. not in size, but in dominance and attidude; much the same way as she sees herself as bigger than the neighborhood dogs who are in fact, larger sized.
I wish you luck though!

Hope all is going well with the schooling!! Boxers can be a handful as puppies but make outstanding family members as adults.:)

Have to put my :2cent: in here. Whoever suggested the shake can- kudos, if it works. It works very well on most dogs- I just happen to have one it doesn't (works great on my other two). Alpha roll- IMHO it is dangerous, I know people who have done it and had no ill effects but there are too many inherent dangers. There are better ways to assert yourself as the dominant one in the household. My boxer mix was the same way when he was younger- smartest dang dog but boy did he give me a run for my money. Sounds like she needs more ways to occupy her mind- make her work for everything. Nothing in life is free, sit before being fed (never feed her before you guys eat). There are lots of websites that have NILIF info. As for jumping, ughhhh irritating isn't it? What I have found that works very well- better than blocking and ignoring- is as soon as she jumps up, grab her front paws and hold her up like that. When she wants down, hold her for a few seconds longer. Keep doing that and it should break the habit. There has been alot of great advice in this thread, bottom line I see is consistancy. Nice to see people who are willing to work with their animals instead of just dumping them in a shelter.

Oh she's very smart, wickedly so LOL. Classic example from about 10 minutes ago. She has been for her morning walk, all the usual morning routine stuff. I was letting her off lead in the house for a bit to see how she'd do. My 5 year old got up and as usual went to cuddle on the couch with a blanket and pillow and watch some cartoons (he's NOT a morning child LOL). I slipped outside for a cigarette, Mikey on the couch, Gunnar being a good dog laying on the floor. I hear a holler...run in...there's Gunnar sitting on Mikey's head! Not cuddling with him, basically flopped all over him so he can't move or see tv (totally ticking him off in the process).

She sees me and before I can say a word, jumps off, trots immediately to her cage, enters and sits nicely...total innocent look on her face. I leave the cage door open and pretend to go back outside. She leaves the cage, goes back and sits on Mikey's head again! I immediately show myself...she repeats the back to cage thing and gives me this totally innocent "I wasn't doin nuffin" look.

We are finding keeping her on the halti is helping with the jumping issues. As soon as her front paws leave the floor we give the halti a sharp downward pull and she has to drop back down or else she'll somersault over (which she had to do a few times to get the hint that jumping isn't in her own best interests...she is a stubborn female).

We are keeping a cold spritz bottle handy and when she begins the hollering for attention from her kennel, a quick blast of cold water is stopping her dead in her tracks. As soon as she's quiet she can exit the kennel but not until she's quiet and calm. She seems to get the point (though to be honest the look of total confusion on her face was priceless..."I barked, why is no one paying me attention! and why in heck is my face wet?????")

The barking is alreay I'd say 80% better, the jumping the same, she's still fighting the halti a bit here and there and isn't impressed that being allowed to dominate for Mike's attention has ended around here (I swear she thinks she's his alpha female or something LOL). We are keeping a strict rule that she isn't allowed to drag us out the door anymore and has to sit quietly and then follow us outside (much better as she's darn near caused me to fall down a big flight of stairs more than once).

I've had to explain to more than one neighbour though that she's not suddenly turned vicious and that the halti is not a muzzle. A lot of folks that know her are amazed at how much calmer she is now. Usually when we are out on walks and I stop to chat with a neighbour it's almost impossible as I spend the whole time dragging her off the other person or tugging at her to stop her running off somewhere when I want her to be still for a moment. Very big improvement that way as the halti really helps keep her focused and well behaved on lead.

Joanna,


Glad to hear that things are improving with Gunnar, but your one comment, about her "thinking" she's alpha to Mike, is probably closer to that truth than warrants a "LOL". :cool:

When we were having problems w/Tundra, and I wanted some ideas, I checked out a book. Jan Fennell is the author, and it's titled "The Dog Listener". She mentions watching, meeting and knowing Monty Roberts, the Horse Whisperer, and she does things similar, but for dogs. She's a behaviorist who has observed packs for many years, and then incorporated those observations in dog rehab and training.

She's got some VERY good suggestions on how to solve the problems you've mentioned w/Gunnar...especially the barking, jumping and peeing. You've mentioned the dominance and jealousy, and that's probably a lot of it, but you may be dealing w/the separation anxieties too.

Keep up the work. I'm sure w/your loving care, these obstacles will be overcome and Gunnar with be the epitome of an angelic dog. :D

So glad to hear she's making progress! Dogs aren't my forte, and wow learning a lot from this thread!

Probably a different situation, but Cleo has been known to pee on our bed for attention. Usually if there's been a big change in the home or if we were away too long (say a weekend or more) she expresses her displeasure/stress by peeing on the bed. We got one of those plastic sheets for bed wetting to protect our mattress just in case, and it's worked great. We've also learned her pattern now, and try not to stay away too long and lavish attention on her if we rearrange furniture or get a new animal or something. She's a bit obsessive compulsive though, which is obviously different from the dominance problems...

With her kidney issues, that cat can pee like a race horse too so you really have my sympathy there. I never knew so much liquid could come out of something so petite. She's been good about it for a long while, but the plastic sheet underneath the regular sheet is a godsend and we keep it on even though it's been a year or so since she's done it last. Just to play it safe.

I'll have to check our library for that book Sweety, thanks!

Update on Gunnar. Still improving but of course being a stubborn and young dog she has her days when she figures it's worth the hassle to see if she can do the obnoxious stuff and get away with it. (I remember you telling me Robin that all dogs are gamblers LOL).

We are staying strict, staying consistent, showing her lots of attention only if she stays calm and not pushy with us and, disciplining her when she tries to push the humans around as she's wont to do. She has her good days and her not so good days but it is a much improved situation and even if she acts up, she is calming down very quickly and seems to realize it's not getting her what she wants anymore.

She used to have this habit of barking constantly when anyone was on the phone, maybe because they weren't paying her complete attention, I'm not really sure why on that one. Anyways, with the spritz bottle handy that's stopped or at least stops quickly so having a chat with a friend is a much nicer (and quieter) experience.

She's starting to recognize the halti attached to her lead. She'll be acting up and I just reach for the lead and halti and she slams her butt on the floor, sitting lovely and calm, without anyone saying a word (okay her butt is wiggling a bit in a sit position but hey she is a big pup still LOL). Very cute and shows she's smart enough to know that we aren't playing anymore, time to be a good dog. :)

Hey Jo check out this link. I'm not sure if it would help you any, but it sure does make some good reading! :D

Cesar Millan Tips

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by iceman25

Hey Jo check out this link. I'm not sure if it would help you any, but it sure does make some good reading! :D

Cesar Millan Tips

---

Oh that one is always in my fav list hon. Cesar is my hero (okay don't tell anyone but Robin and I are like his most rabid fans and it's NOT all about how good he is with dogs...that man's cute too!...just don't tell our fella's that she and I drool over Cesar...they think we are just overly focused on his dog training show...hehehehehehehehehe :D )

You should read his book as well, it's pretty good.

You've gotten a lot of wonderful tips here so I have nothing to add (though how I missed this thread I don't know).

I will say that the Alpha roll has a time and a place to be properly put to use.

I had this trouble with Chad my Boxer basically Boxers are a bundle of pent up energy! , i take Chad down to the beach and play fetch in the sea he loves it and it burns off alot of energy , he gets walked 3 times a day also, hes good as gold now usally asleep on the sofa snoring his head off. also for bad behaviour ignoring and turning away from them is the best method imo it worked a treat on chad : ) and loads of praise and attention for good behaviour

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by frankykeno

(okay don't tell anyone but Robin and I are like his most rabid fans and it's NOT all about how good he is with dogs...that man's cute too!...just don't tell our fella's that she and I drool over Cesar...they think we are just overly focused on his dog training show...hehehehehehehehehe :D )

---

ROFL! My lips are sealed Jo! :D :rockon: