Help Desperately Needed

hello all! i havent posted but once or twice, but need some help and thought you guys were my best bet. let me tell you a story...

back in the middle of september, i bought a 1 month old orange granite female bp. the night we brought her home, she took down 2 live hoppers without an issue. from that night forward, once a week she took down 1-3 live hoppers, depending on their size, for quite a few weeks. then one week, i tried her on a smaller adult sized mouse. although she took it down, she took awhile to get it down. since that night (about 6 weeks ago), she has not shown any interest in food. a month ago she was down to 69 grams, and is now down to 57 grams. she has been to the vet, who did a tube feeding and said to keep trying on small prey (pinkies, etc), but she has shown no interest at all in food, and is starting to waste away. she will be returning to the vet very soon for possible blood tests (fecals are impossible because there is nothing in her to get anything out of according to the vet), but im hoping for some ideas.

ok, the basics on her care
small tub setup, temps 90-92 with the basic gradient using human heat pad, 2 small tight hides (one on each side).

feeding attempts have been both f/t and live mice and rats (hoppers or fuzzies), and one live pinkie (left in over night per the vet). we have tried feeding both in the tub and in a different enclosure. no luck with anything, she just either sniffs and runs or balls up completely and hides her head as far as she can.

the biggest oddball situation is the lump that formed, went away, and now is back. of course it went away RIGHT before going to the vet, so he did not see it, but it has come back. there is NOTHING in her system according to the vet, so im thinking an infection or something? it is right above her vent, and is about 1/2" long.

here are a bunch of pics. yes, i know how skinny she is, but she was much bigger 6 weeks ago when she was eating. you can see the bump in several pics. if anyone has ANY ideas, please let me know. obviously she is going back to the vet, but im hoping for some ideas we can give to him, because he seems a little stumped too, and he is one of the best in the state. thanks for the help up front! here are the pics that were taken tonight.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e6...11-15-06/1.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e6...11-15-06/2.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e6...11-15-06/3.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e6...11-15-06/4.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e6...11-15-06/5.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e6...11-15-06/6.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e6...11-15-06/7.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e6...11-15-06/8.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e6...11-15-06/9.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e6...1-15-06/10.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e6...1-15-06/11.jpg

when ever people have trouble feeding i always advise to prescent the room it seems to get their mouths watering for food. heres a good link
http://www.ball-pythons.net/modules....warticle&id=60

Just tossing out ideas, but there is a condition from hatching about the yolk being retained. It turns into a hard spot. It doesn't fit well.... but....
She could be impacted? Maybe the pee builds up at the impact site, then seeps past slowly, thereby making the lump disappear?
Otherwise, I'd have to say the vet will have to make some guesses too.
All my guesses are ONLY guesses, and I just want to help. Maybe get a african rat fuzzy to try to tempt her?
Good luck I hope she starts eating and recovers!
Wolfy

that lump definately looks like something needs to pass and is not, has your vet done an x-ray to make sure there is nothing blocking?


Just an idea

Hi,


First thing is to show those pics to the vet - the more information they have the better they can help the animal. I only mention this in case in case you forget :)

If its impaction or obstruction of the bowel then yes its very serious - we had a baby iguana die once because a human hair (long - and for some reason purple) had somehow got mixed in her food and then went all through her gut snagging at points along the way and causing blockages.

I'm not sure if soaking her in a very shallow dish of warm water would be of anmy help if there was a medical reason for the lump forming and to be honest would leave any treatment descisions to the vet.

Hopefully some of the larger breeders will have seen something similar and could give advice from direct experience.

I hope she gets better soon :(


dr del

thanks for all the replies so far guys! we are doing soaks a few times a week already, and trying to keep her a little warmer than normal most days. we have prescented the room. it all seemed to happen when the bigger mouse was fed. the vet didnt do any xrays, but did the flashlight test and said she has nothing in her to block her up. we did get an idea from a breeder friend - he said that something like what she is going through is usually a parasitic infestation, which is rare in cb animals, which means she COULD be wc. he suggested treating with some panacur and keeping her hydrated for the next 2 weeks, and keep trying to feed. hows this sound to you guys? at least its an idea, and at least panacur cant really hurt her, even if it doesnt help. i have treated many leopard geckos with it, and have that experience.
anyone else have any ideas? not that the ones you have given arent great, but the more i can give to the vet the better...

i dont know how to help you, but i really hope that all goes well. The ver should be able to help, and hopefully the lump stays long enough for him to see it.

and if it is any conselation, she is a beautiful girl, i hope she pulls through!!!

I agree that you should bring those pictures to the vet. if soaking isnt helping or anything else, then try it. It really looks bad..poor thing :(
Let us know how she does.

i noticed you don't mention what your cool side's temp is, or how you take the temps... so although i have no additional info other than what has already been offered to you... i thought i'd pull this info from our caresheets for ya: ;)

Quote:

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TEMPERATURE
~90F (warm side)
~80F (cool side)
75 or below is unhealthy
Maintaining proper temperatures is essential to keeping your ball python healthy – failure to do so can lead to a host of issues from poor feeding to potentially lethal respiratory infections. For this reason you want to make sure you are able to measure the temperatures accurately. The sticker-type label thermometers sometimes seen used on aquariums are not sufficient for measuring much more than the temperature of the surface they are stuck to and many of the dial-type analog thermometers available in pet stores are routinely inaccurate. Do yourself and your ball python a tremendous favor and invest in a digital thermometer – one of the most cost-effective and easily available is the Accu-Rite digital thermometer/hygrometer combo available at large stores such as Wal-Mart. These retail for appx $15 and include a probe making it possible to monitor the warm side and cool side temps as well as the humidity levels all simultaneously. You can also invest in a temp-gun for appx $25 which uses a beam to give you instant surface temperature readings (note – these cannot measure air or ambient temperature however).


HEAT SOURCES
Heating pads designed for human use have been used with great success by a large number of keepers – but it must be noted that you must obtain one which does not have the “auto-shutoff” feature or you will be unable to maintain your temperatures. These are usually available in large stores and pharmacies for appx $10 and the same caveats for UTH apply – make sure you have some clearance under your enclosure.

MONITOR YOUR TEMPERATURES – If the ambient room temperatures in your house fluctuate then likely the temperatures in your reptiles enclosures are as well. If you find it difficult to maintain your temperatures adequately you should invest in a thermostat to help regulate your temperatures and keep your reptiles healthy.

Heat lamps make decent supplemental heating sources but when using this approach be aware that light-based heat can contribute to the quicker evaporation of moisture in the air of your enclosure. Unsuitably dry conditions can leading to difficult sheds and other health issues. When using this method to supplement heat make sure visible light sources are not left on 24hrs – this constant light can cause great stress in these creatures. Non visible heat lamps (red or black bulbs) should be utilized if the source must be kept on overnight.

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i also noticed you didn't mention a water dish... do you have one?

you guys are good! thanks for picking up on the stuff i missed.
so, to answer questions, temps are taken with an accurite dual temp/humidity guage (the standard one everyone uses). yes, she does have a water dish. humidity has always ran about 50%, cool temps are around 75-77 on average. right now she is...stable i guess from my first post.
i have to say, i really appreciate the helpful answers/ideas i am getting on this situation. it is one thing i like about this forum compared to others - the "insta-bashing" and screaming is not an issue here when someone is facing a problem. you guys are great!
any other ideas? it is all greatly appreciated!

I'd try to get the cool end temps up to 80 and the warm end up to 90.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gottaluvherps

which means she COULD be wc.

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LOL ... oh, that animal is for sure a CH ... nothing CB about it .... you could try panacur, but as skinny as that animal is, I doubt it would help much with the problems you're having.

Couple ideas ... smaller enclosure, shoe box size ... keep him/her warm ... mid 80s - low 90's ... fill the tub with loosely crumpled newspaper ... I'd think that tube feeding is a little extreme, but without seeing the animal in person, I couldn't tell for sure ... small tub, small hide, lots and lots of crumpled paper ... warm, warm, warm ... leave him/her alone (totally alone) for a couple of days and introduce a small hopper mouse overnight (you can put a small amount of rodent food in the front corner of the box to give the hopper something to nibble on). If the animal was eating and stopped, it doesn't like something that you are doing ... temps, security, etc ... go back to the basics.

I wouldn't worry about the lump in front of the vent ... looks like he animal is at least hydrated and a small urate looks massive right before it's passed in such a skinny animal.

Hope this helps.

-adam

just a sad update gang. sometime in the night, our little venus passed on. the lump did come back and retreat a few more times, but that was the only thing that we thought. she never did eat again, and never seemed interested in food. as much as it pains me, im glad she is not suffering any longer. thanks for all the help that was given.

She's in a better, healthier place. :)

I am so sorry for your loss. As Mike said she is in a better place. Having animals is great but its is always very sad when you loose one of them. When you are ready I'm sure someone on this forum could find you a new one. Hope your Thanksgiving cheers you up!

thanks to everyone for their kind words and thoughts. yes, venus is now in a better place, and no longer suffering, which is better for her. i have done lots of rescues (leopard geckos, etc), and have dealt with losing an animal before. although it is not easy, you do tend to have a sense of peace when they are no longer hurting.
as far as getting another one, i will one day. i do have 2 other male bps (that are both very healthy and happy), 6 crested geckos, 8 leopard geckos, a bearded dragon and a tortoise, so i think the collection, for now, is good. lol. once it is time, i will have more snakes though!