How should a snake vendor fix mis-sexing?

Just over a year ago I purchased an early 05 female lemon pastel almost 300 grams from a guy who a month earlier got him from a large snake distributer. I don't want to say names until hopefully it is resolved amicably. I spoke to the bigger guy right after the purchase to ask about feeding habits and he remembered the snake the guy he sold it too and gave me history of the snake saying "I wished I had kept her". Well today she is 1200 grams and is making sperm plugs. I had a male cinamon lined up for a late season breeding project with her and now the pewter is a prayer. I just sent an email to the guy that I bought from and hope someone makes it right. I didn't know how to pop or probe then and figure with the snake coming from the big dog to the breeder to me and both confirming female I was OK. I now have my select breeders that get my business with all my confidence and in turn they take good care of me. I have my own contracting business and also breed beardies and always take care of my customers if there's a problem, I found it's the best advertising there is. What do the big dogs think is the apropriate way to resolve this?

Here she/he is.
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...3/Isabella.JPG

Isabella is now Izzy

Nice looking snake though.

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Originally Posted by westcoastjungle

What do the big dogs think is the apporiate way to resolve this?

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Well, I'm no "big dog", but what I was taught by the people that helped me get started in this business long ago (who are actual "big dogs") was to hold back enough males and females of each mutation, het, or normal that you sell to be able to correct anything that might come up in the future. If you make no mistakes and nothing tragic ever happens and never need them, you have some extra outstanding animals sitting in your racks ... a good problem to have IMO.

-adam

Totally off topic here - but is Vomitore getting his new male from you? I recognize that sofa!! LOL

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Totally off topic here - but is Vomitore getting his new male from you? I recognize that sofa!! LOL

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Indeed I am :D

It's the comfy snake room chair/photo studio. I like having a comfy chair in there sometimes those guys take a long time :taz:

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Originally Posted by westcoastjungle

It's the comfy snake room chair/photo studio. I like having a comfy chair in there sometimes those guys take a long time :taz:

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Haha you think you got the perfect pose, then they move. ;)

They should replace it with a similar weighted female.

Have you probed him? Just on the off chance that you haven't....I didn't know until I got the Barker's new book that females can produce yellow guck that looks deceivingly like sperm (to the inexperienced).

Hope you can get it worked out. I've read of breeders replacing a missexed animal several years after the sale.

He's been popped and probed. It started to become obvious because he kept growing longer and not wider and the tail was looking long. Of course I kept telling my self I just got a long skinny girl not wanting to accept the truth untill we look under the hood (So to speak) for the goods. My big concern is the people involved don't breed the animals they collect and sell them and it's been a year. So far no return email but I just sent it today. Hopefullt they will make good on it some how. I think reputation is everything in this business.

sharp eyes you got there robin! :)

If they don't make it right, expose the **** out of them...

this is, in no way, meant as an insult to anyone but i just want to share my feelings on this type of thread. (as a member not as a moddie)

i've noticed lately that there's been a lot of threads discussing how a breeder/seller messed up and i have to say... i think it's kinda unfair to the breeders/sellers to do this before they even have a chance to make it right. if one of my customers (for silkworms and butterworms) was dissatisfied with the product i sent them... i would sure appreciate them talking to me and 'gifting' me the opportunity to make things right before sharing the situation on the net.

after it's resolved... making a post saying, "oh man you won't believe what happened to me. i got ________ but the breeder was awesome... fixed me up no problem" or "oh man you won't believe what happened :eek: and the breeder totally blew me off..."

but at least give them a little while to make things right first.

okay, i'm getting off my soapbox now. my little rant is over :P i return you to your regularly scheduled reading.

and westcoastjungle... that totally sucks and i hope hope hope they set you up with a gorgeous female, nice a squishy and ready to breed! :hug:

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Originally Posted by recycling goddess

this is, in no way, meant as an insult to anyone but i just want to share my feelings on this type of thread. (as a member not as a moddie)

i've noticed lately that there's been a lot of threads discussing how a breeder/seller messed up and i have to say... i think it's kinda unfair to the breeders/sellers to do this before they even have a chance to make it right. if one of my customers (for silkworms and butterworms) was dissatisfied with the product i sent them... i would sure appreciate them talking to me and 'gifting' me the opportunity to make things right before sharing the situation on the net.

after it's resolved... making a post saying, "oh man you won't believe what happened to me. i got ________ but the breeder was awesome... fixed me up no problem" or "oh man you won't believe what happened :eek: and the breeder totally blew me off..."

but at least give them a little while to make things right first.

okay, i'm getting off my soapbox now. my little rant is over :P i return you to your regularly scheduled reading.

and westcoastjungle... that totally sucks and i hope hope hope they set you up with a gorgeous female, nice a squishy and ready to breed! :hug:

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But I do give WestCoast kudos for not telling the sellers name. He wants to be fair and not name names before a final result has been had. WestCoast is someone who has a cool head about things. We know how people are when money is involved. They can be gracious or terrible.

As long as he isn't naming names, or putting anyone down, it seems fair for him to make a post asking for advice.

Just my 2 cents...

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Just over a year ago I purchased an early 05 female lemon pastel almost 300 grams from a guy who a month earlier got him from a large snake distributer.

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At this point, it would be the guy you bought from that should go good for it, if anyone. The reseller that sold it to that guy did not sell it to you. Did you ask the guy you got it from if it would be guaranteed to be female? Keep in mind, if you buy a truck off me that I bought a month ago from a dealer, and the truck breaks down or isn't what you expected it to be.. you can't expect the dealer to go good on it unless a transferable guarantee was given by the dealer. What is the dealer bought if as a female from Joe Blow.. and what if Joe Blow bought it as a female from the original breeder? Who is at fault? How far back can we go?

I also feel that even though the person selling the snake should attempt to be sure of the sex, if that detail is part of the sale, but at the same time it also needs to be the buyers responsibility to check this within a reasonable amount of time. Not knowing how to probe is one thing but there are local herp societies, respectable pet stores, vets, etc., that you can get a snake probed at for as little as $5.00

Now, these are my opinions. Everyone has opinions and you can agree or disagree. If I sell a snake I will guarantee the genetics for life (hets), guarantee live arrival & health for a set period, and I will guarantee sex for 30 days. Within that 30 days, it is your responsibility to have it double checked.. BUT the key to any guarantee or contract is that unless it's transferable from the original breeder, it needs to be from the person you bought it from and not from people prior to that, it should also be clearly written and not assumed.

Rick

I agree with you Rick. I do have to share some responsibility. I have purposely not mentioned names and should have realized earlier what sex it was. i don't think it was done on purpose (I hope) thats why I'm asking others for their input and experience and to see what I should expect and live with that. Most breeders tell me they should make good on it. The truth is pastels are ALOT cheaper this year than last and I don't want money just a pastel girl(hopefully resonable size). I don't wan't to ruin reputations on human error. It could happen to any of us.

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I agree with you Rick. I do have to share some responsibility. I have purposely not mentioned names and should have realized earlier what sex it was. i don't think it was done on purpose (I hope) thats why I'm asking others for their input and experience and to see what I should expect and live with that. Most breeders tell me they should make good on it. The truth is pastels are ALOT cheaper this year than last and I don't want money just a pastel girl(hopefully resonable size). I don't wan't to ruin reputations on human error. It could happen to any of us.

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I aplaude you for that. Handled very well so far I think. Bashing a breeder because of a mistake is not the right route. Well done :carrot: :rockon:

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

I agree there has been alot of this "Tuff luck" to the breeders for miss sexing. Lets flip this coin over and look at what would happen if the Breeder had the tuff luck state of mind. You pay for a Female 06 Het Pied (1300 - 1500).Now you get your new female home and low and behold its a male! How many of you would just walk away and be happy. NONE. Why? because now its you that has taken the $800.00 hit and not the faceless breeder. Now you call the breeder to make things right and you get the tough luck speach. Your told to send the male back at your charge and now wait for a male to come available. Not one thread or reply on this sight would read. "I would keep the snake and avoid all the drama". It would be more like "Anyone know a good lawyer."

Yes the breeder should do all they can to help the customer and make things right. But the Tuff luck breeder state of mind is sad. :( And I think that if you want to keep the female then pay the man for it if you want the male the breeder should ship the female back (NO CHARGE) and send you a proper age, proper weight, Proper sex male (NO SHIPING CHARGE). If the breeder is a stand up guy this should not be a problem.

Just my two cents.

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I think you may have been meaning to post this one in this thread http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...846#post454846 . In this case the person paid for a female but got a male. The fun of having multiple threads about similar cases :P

I agree that the breeder should be given a chance to make things right before you go blabbing on the internet about the deal. I know it's really easy to sit down and make a post, but really, what's the point? This person asked a question on what to do in this situation, and its a good thing that no names were mentioned. The breeder should be given a chance to make it right.

Looking at it from the other side of the fence for a moment though, there's a question that I have that I put off asking in the other "mis-sexing" thread: What business do you have pouring money into investment animals prior to learning how to accurately sex the species which you intend on breeding? In my opinion, that's the same thing as buying a snake before you own a cage. In no way does this deflect responsibility from the seller to the buyer for these sorts of issues, but given the amount of time that passed by in this situation before the error was realized, I don't feel like the seller is 100% liable here.

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

What business do you have pouring money into investment animals prior to learning how to accurately sex the species which you intend on breeding? .... but given the amount of time that passed by in this situation before the error was realized, I don't feel like the seller is 100% liable here.

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Very good point. I do hope everything turns out but... I doubt like he said that given the amount of time that has passed the out come will be to the buyers likeing.

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

Very good point. I do hope everything turns out but... I doubt like he said that given the amount of time that has passed the out come will be to the buyers likeing.

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And given all of that, I feel like most of the "big boys" wouldn't hesitate to make an offer anyway to make the buyer happy in this sort of case and make a repeat customer out of them. It just goes back to who you choose to deal with...a smaller hobbyist posing as a commercial breeder will have a tougher time making this sort of thing right.

I hope it works out - sure is a beautiful animal. =)

On a brighter note I put Izzy(formerly Isabella) with my reduced pattern girl and Izzy definately loves the ladies (can you blame him). So he should be a good breeder. My other pastel male breed wth her a couple of weeks ago (she's easy!) so one of them should close the deal.

Izzy and Raquel- Can you hear the Barry White?
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...ewildthing.JPG

hahahaha, i can't hear the music all the way over here :cool:. beautiful snakes!

Congrats, keep us posted.

Rick

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Originally Posted by westcoastjungle

On a brighter note I put Izzy(formerly Isabella) with my reduced pattern girl and Izzy definately loves the ladies (can you blame him). So he should be a good breeder. My other pastel male breed wth her a couple of weeks ago (she's easy!) so one of them should close the deal.

Izzy and Raquel- Can you hear the Barry White?

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congrats on the lock up westcoast. has any solution come to you yet with the seller?

No response yet. I emailed again and attached a copy of the original email with sale terms and info. I'm trying to be patient and level headed.