IDEA: scale rot, mouth rot, ticks, worms, etc.

Is it possible for someone make to make a sticky thread with a brief explanation of common (visible) BP illnesses... how they're contracted, how they're treated, and most importantly... how to SPOT them, with PICTURES?

The ideal person to do this will probably be a professional breeder or admin... someone with LOTS of experience with BPs and have encountered several of these illnesses. Of course, this isn't to say that someone without such experience cannot do research using Google and do this. Pictures of the diseases most likely won't all be taken by the poster anyway (unless they're really anal about documenting all their BPs).

I've been surfing these forums extensively for a few days now and thought that something like this will be a very helpful addition to the knowledge base. Maybe those who have taken closeup pictures of the illnesses can post here and we'll eventually fit it all into one post?

Thanks in advance!

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Originally Posted by Ktzero3

Is it possible for someone make to make a sticky thread with a brief explanation of common (visible) BP illnesses... how they're contracted, how they're treated, and most importantly... how to SPOT them, with PICTURES?

The ideal person to do this will probably be a professional breeder or admin... someone with LOTS of experience with BPs and have encountered several of these illnesses. Of course, this isn't to say that someone without such experience cannot do research using Google and do this. Pictures of the diseases most likely won't all be taken by the poster anyway (unless they're really anal about documenting all their BPs).

I've been surfing these forums extensively for a few days now and thought that something like this will be a very helpful addition to the knowledge base. Maybe those who have taken closeup pictures of the illnesses can post here and we'll eventually fit it all into one post?

Thanks in advance!

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Well since no one else is going to reply and comment on this thread i guess i will.First off anyone with ENOUGH experiance let alone LOTS would of course NOT have these problems in his/her collection.The health problems you are mentioning here are caused by those with NO experiance IE they keep the enclosure to wet(scale rot).They do not have the proper temps and allow the snake to get URI that continues to get worse(mouth rot) i think thats how it starts out.I have never had a snake in my collection have mouth rot,just a rescue a long time back.Now ticks,worms and etc normaly come with buying wild caught snakes.I am not sure if anyone could show enough documents to make it into a sticky that would be able to fit into a small sticky.I am not being rude here just honest,in the future you might try not to single any one group out to get your questions answered.It does offend some, and to be honest thats what makes this site so great EVERYONE adds there knowledge to get questions answered.:cool:

I don't really agree...

i think that would be a great sticky for those who dont know what these unfortunate illnesses look like, but think there snake may have, help them diagnose a snake. If ways to help the snake get better are listed, who knows it may save a life.

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Originally Posted by Rapture

I don't really agree...

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Rapture, what is it you don't really agree on?

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Originally Posted by jdmls88

i think that would be a great sticky for those who dont know what these unfortunate illnesses look like, but think there snake may have, help them diagnose a snake. If ways to help the snake get better are listed, who knows it may save a life.

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Now what if someones snake has a burn and they look at the scale rot pic and think its scale rot when its not.Then they treat it in the manor scale rot is dealt with,how does that help the REAL problem being not treated correctly?We all know how pics never really capture the whole images.

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Originally Posted by joepythons

Now what if someones snake has a burn and they look at the scale rot pic and think its scale rot when its not.Then they treat it in the manor scale rot is dealt with,how does that help the REAL problem being not treated correctly?We all know how pics never really capture the whole images.

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good point, but for example i dont know what mouth rot, URI, or scale rot looks like. So i wouldnt even know what to look for if something was wrong. This would definitly give me and many other people a somewhat broader knowledge of snake sicknesses. I think it would be better than having no idea at all.:carrot:

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Originally Posted by jdmls88

good point, but for example i dont know what mouth rot, URI, or scale rot looks like. So i wouldnt even know what to look for if something was wrong. This would definitly give me and many other people a somewhat broader knowledge of snake sicknesses. I think it would be better than having no idea at all.:carrot:

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I understand.My whole concern was that i am not sure everything showing these problems(scale rot,mouth rot and etc) will be able to fit in one sticky.With myself being a moderator on another site i know our space for stickies were limited.So i think thats why its best to ask these types of questions on the open forum.I even think if you was to do a search something might allready be posted somewhere.I am not saying the members will not answer your questions no matter how many times its allready been asked,just mentioning it.

I don't agree that these problems only arise with people with no experience. I think there would be instances where problems could occur with new animals that experienced keepers bring in... otherwise there would be no quarantine procedures.

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Originally Posted by Rapture

I don't agree that these problems only arise with people with no experience. I think there would be instances where problems could occur with new animals that experienced keepers bring in... otherwise there would be no quarantine procedures.

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OK.Now think about what you just wrote here a minute.The problem would not have been caused in the more experianced keeper collection,it was allready in place.

Actually.....I think that's not a bad idea at all. It would take a bit of time and effort to collect images and permissions to use them, as well as the appropriate information to go along with them.....but it could be a very useful resource for referencing when someone says "my snake has this weird spot on its belly..." or just for the additional education of all of us.

Of course, something like this would have to have a strong caveat that these sorts of conditions should always be diagnosed and attended by an experienced vet.

I'll start looking into this and see what we can come up with. :D

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Originally Posted by joepythons

OK.Now think about what you just wrote here a minute.The problem would not have been caused in the more experianced keeper collection,it was allready in place.

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In that case they would not need to be identified?

Whether an animal in quarantine, or one in your collection, it would still seem like a good idea to be able to recognize what kinds of common problems you are dealing with, and both experienced keepers and first-timers could benefit from a thread like this.

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Originally Posted by joepythons

Now what if someones snake has a burn and they look at the scale rot pic and think its scale rot when its not.Then they treat it in the manor scale rot is dealt with,how does that help the REAL problem being not treated correctly?We all know how pics never really capture the whole images.

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I think it would be a good idea to put a warning up at the top of the sticky,
WARNING: this is for learning purposes and/or helping diagnose health issues with your snake, The final call of a health issue should be made by a Herp specializing Veteranarian(sp). Just so we dont have any mix ups as Joe said.:salute:

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Originally Posted by joepythons

First off anyone with ENOUGH experiance let alone LOTS would of course NOT have these problems in his/her collection.

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I agree with Rapture, this statement is just not true.

Large collection management is not for the faint of heart ... mouth rot can be caused by a rodent claw or tooth during feeding, respiratory infections can occur during breeding season due to stress and other factors, etc. It's completely naive to think that people with lots of experience are completely immune to common ball python health problems ... if anything, they see them more than the average keeper because they have large numbers of animals.

Death and illness are unfortunately two inevitable side effects of working with live animals.

-adam

joepythons:
While I understand some of your concerns such as BP owners attempting to act as vets, I do not at all understand your basis for saying that I am exclusively tailoring to experienced BP owners.

I realized that even with years of experience, even a breeder may not encounter these common problems. If you would kindly re-read my second paragraph, I was careful enough to use the word "probably" and also to state clearly that someone with zero experience, like myself, would also be capable of constructing such a document.

Now, as to address the issue of BP owners masquerading as vets... I am glad you brought up such a point. As a counter-argument, I would like to point out that there are numerous places online where an individual worried about their health could look up possible illnesses based upon symptoms. I do not believe that this forum should be used to discuss the social/ethical rammifcations of such websites, but that such services ARE already available online even for BPs.

While composing this Sticky, I do believe that we can offer enough warning that each individual case of illness is different and require personalized attention (possibly from a vet, or perhaps just opinions from experienced forum-goers such as yourself). Also, I do believe that it is also necessary to include a boldface warning stating that self-diagnosis and/or treatment is not a substitution for veterinary attention .

I apologize for not including these things in the original post. To tell you the truth, I didn't think about that it was a problem until you mentioned it.


Anyway, I'd like to thank everyone (joepythons, Rapture, jdmls88, JLC, Adam_Wysocki) for reading and responding to my idea! I would really appreciated it if we got the ball rolling now :D

Now see this is one reason this site is way by far THE BEST and why i spend majority of my time here:rockon: .We can all have a nice peacefull discussion without someone flipping out lol.Ktzero3,i guess i could have responded a little differant also.When i read you wanted input from people with ALOT of experiance i took it as you were favoring one group over the others.My main concern was someone looking at the pics and misdiagnosing(spelling) the true problem.I agree that some type of warning should be added along with this sticky when its created.

Has anyone taken the job of creating the sticky yet?

I'll put it on the list of many things we need to get done!

Mind - we've got jobs and other things also vying for our attention out here as well - as awesome as it would be for staff to be able to work full time and get paid it just ain't so ;)

if there is anything ic an do to help i would be glad to. Pics, info. etc.

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Originally Posted by Smulkin

I'll put it on the list of many things we need to get done!

Mind - we've got jobs and other things also vying for our attention out here as well - as awesome as it would be for staff to be able to work full time and get paid it just ain't so ;)

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Jobs, Jobs! We don't need no stinking jobs.
We just want to play with our snakes all day :)

( just kidding )

Alright, let's get started. I included some comments/questions in brackets.

WARNING: Self diagnosis and treatment of your animal is NOT a substitute for veterinary attention. All illnesses are unique, therefore generalization may lead to the death of your animal. If you are unsure about ANYTHING please do not hesitate to post on the forums and seek assistance from our knowledgable community.

[in alphabetical order]
Blister Disease and Scale Rot
CAUSES: unsanitary enclosure, excessive substrate dampness, excessive humidity

SIGNS:

TREATMENTS: Veterinary visit. [Are there any home remedies for this?]


Inclusion Body Disease aka IBD
CAUSES: infected reptiles

SIGNS:

TREATMENTS: None. Euthanasia is advised.


Internal Parasites or Worms
CAUSES: infected reptiles, infected prey

SIGNS:

TREATMENTS: Veterinary visit is REQUIRED. He/she will prescribe the necessary treatments.


Mites and Ticks
CAUSES: infected reptiles, infected prey, outdoor exposure

SIGNS:

TREATMENTS: Veterinary visit or Provent-a-Mite spray. PAM can be acquired online or possibly at pet stores. Temporary solutions include utilizing petroleum jelly or a long warm bath to suffocate the mites and ticks.


Respiratory Illness aka RI
CAUSES: low temperatures, excessive humidity, prolonged stress

SIGNS:

TREATMENTS: Veterinary visit is REQUIRED. He/she will prescribe necessary antibiotics and vitamin supplements. You should provide increased temperatures.


Stomatitis aka Mouth Rot
CAUSES: infected mouth wound, unsanitary enclosure

SIGNS:

TREATMENTS: Veterinary visit. [Are there any home remedies for this?]


I've left all of the Signs area blank because at the moment I don't even own a BP (it'll come Thursday!) and therefore am unqualified to write those sections. I am, however, fully capable of doing research on the causes and treatments of the above illnesses. Feel free to add on more to the sections I've already completed. And we need PICTURES of these things!

Also, do you guys think regurgitation and incomplete sheds should be included? They arn't really illnesses per se but are common problems...

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Originally Posted by Ktzero3

incomplete sheds

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There's nothing wrong with a snake that has incomplete sheds.

-adam

If we are trying to keep the size of this sticky down, then I would leave out shedding and regurg/feeding issues since these are easily "diagnosed" and if you read the care sheets, you'll know how to avoid them.

>>My contribution>>

You're right about the causes of scale rot, but minor cases are apparently easily treated and the snake recovers fully without meds or a vet visit. My girl developed these pink spots, and I took advice on another forum to use a topical antibiotic (Polysporin) on the spots until her next shed, at which time they shed off completely. I had been missing some of her urates because they were camouflaged against the white substrate. So the cause needs to be corrected too (changed the substrate). Serious cases would require injectible antibiotics from a vet.

I don't know if blister disease is the same thing.......??

I would post my pics but it says I MAY NOT post attachments.

smulkin has a good RI article under the medical section

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/files/3/8/4/9/rot2.jpg
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/files/3/8/4/9/rot1.jpg

Figured it out (hopefully).

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Originally Posted by Sadie

I would post my pics but it says I MAY NOT post attachments.

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http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=28289

There's a link that will show you how to post pics here. :)

EDIT: Doh! Nevermind! LOL ...but maybe someone else will make use of it. ;)

Wow, GREAT pictures Sadie. This is exactly the kind of thing I was hoping for!

But... do you mind elaborating a little bit on the antibiotic? Where did you obtain it (is it similar to neosporin?), how often was applied, etc?

Thanks again.

Thanks! Hope they're useful.

Yes, polysporin is like neosporin. It's just an over-the-counter ointment, commonly included in first aid kits. I'm sure you could pick it up at any drug store. Good for minor people scrapes and bites too.

I used it twice a day, which was more than enough.

Are OTC ointments such as neosporin safe if accidentally consumed by BPs?

Oh.. and may I have permission to use your pictures for the sticky?

i would hope so because ive accidentally consumed my fair share lol (dont ask)

Don't know if the ointment would be toxic, but I also can't imagine a scenario where the snake would manage to ingest it, let alone enough to make it sick.

Yes, you are more than welcome to use the pictures.:)

VET VET VET!.

If you know enough about your animal to know that something is amiss with its health then thats all you really need to know. Then Get them to the vet ASAP. If you know that their not susposted to be loosing skin, or blowing bubbles when they breath then your good. If you see any of this stuff that they have mentioned then take it to the vet. Vets are really the only ones that are quilified to make these decisions. To see a lpic of blister desiese and a fresh brun they might look alike. So a referance of what you snake should not look like or be acting like is a better idea that pin pointing problems and their cure.

Just my 2cents