Suggestions on how to handle this

I bought a male pastel in May and never sexed it until just recently. It turns out it was a female. I contacted the breeder to let him know he sent me a female just in case someone had bought a female and got a male instead. Turns out I am the only one to tell him about a missexed animal.

Anyway, here is the problem I am now faced with.
I paid $400 for the pastel in May (that did not include shipping). He has no pastels left at the moment.

He has offered me 2 options.

Option Number One:
Return this snake to him and he will send me an '07 male when they become available. I pay to ship this one back and he pays to ship me the new one.

Option Number Two:
I keep this pastel and send him another $800 to make up the difference between what I paid for a male and what he charged for females.

Both options suck if you ask me.
I feel that I am getting the shaft for letting him know about the missexing.

I have not replied with an answer yet and quite frankly I don't want to wait for an '07 animal or pay a huge amount to keep this snake.

What do you suggest?

Maybe my way of thinking is wrong...

But they missexed it...
Option 2... in my opinion is a load of :cens0r: .
Pay me more to keep a snake I made a mistake with!


Option 1 doesnt seem fair you paid already now pay to ship it back and wait for a younger baby. If and I assume you did have breeding plans doesnt that really put some plans on hold??

Id take option 3
Tell him it's his mistake and keep what you have.

Like I said my way may be wrong but his way certainly doesnt seem very fair.

gosh that's really a tough one. You did the right thing by contacting him and letting him know what the deal is...and now he wants 800 more?

Well ya can't just bail out and pretend you never contacted him...not saying you would...

I really honestly don't know what I would do in this situation. Are you really happy with her? if so, maybe you can talk him into cutting the price a bit...after all, it was his fault. If he can't properly sex a snake, then why be so greedy? He wasn't missing that $800, he's not struggling for it.

Tell him tough luck, he screwed up and now has to live with it.

tell him no way. he missexed it, its his problem. tell him you're keeping the snake and its his fault.

keep the snake, feed her up. get a bigger pastel that can breed this winter. breeder's mistake and you shouldn't pay for it!



vaughn

telling him "no way it's your problem" can be classified as theft.

putting a bar code for a 5 dollar item on a 25 dollar item is also theft.

I never should have contacted him. :mad:



I can see where it would be partially my fault since I nver sexed the animal upon arrival. I bought a male and just assumed it was a male that came. It's usually the other way around where you buy a female and get a male.

When this snake arrived it was 115 grams. It has now passed the 400 gram mark since being with me. This was for a bee project so the male pastel was needed and an '07 isn't going to work.

I do not want to ship this snake back since it is thriving with me and I have put time, effort, and food into making sure it thrives.

I have no problem paying some type of difference but frankly $800 more is extreme and I will not pay that much.

I will offer to send $350 more to make up for it and that's it. It may sound harsh but that is my take it or leave it offer.

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Originally Posted by SPJ

I will offer to send $350 more to make up for it and that's it. It may sound harsh but that is my take it or leave it offer.

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I think that's a great idea. something is better than nothing, and you've put a lot of time and effort into this project...

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Originally Posted by nathanledet

telling him "no way it's your problem" can be classified as theft.

putting a bar code for a 5 dollar item on a 25 dollar item is also theft.

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he didnt put the cheaper "barcode" on the "item", the "store" did.

if it were me i wouldnt send him any money. he missexed it. all you did was correctly sex it and tell him whatit really was. he cant tell you to give him money because he made the mistake of selling you a more expensive animal not knowing it. thats not fair to you and thats just giving him 800 dollars for free as far as im concerned.

yea option 2 is sort of ridiculous

if i was the breeder, i would just let you keep the ball, because it’s my own mistake,and I wouldn’t make my customers wait a couple of months to receive their animals, nor would I make them pay a couple hundreds more.

Im not one to cheat anyone... But honestly it looks like someones getting cheated here and in my way of seeing it, it is "NOT" the breeder.

My suggestion is to get a second sex determination.

i'm with cue!

and i would politely let the breeder know that it was his error, not yours regarding the snake and you won't be paying extra to keep your snake.

but... in the future, he may want to be more careful regarding sexing his snakes. ;)

OK. This is what I would do. Tell him you are going to keep it, (as collateral) until you get your 07 male. It was his mistake. Tell him he's going to have to take you to court if he wants $800, because even though females sell for more, you have now put money into raising up this animal, and now she's worth even more, because she's bigger. Tell him you'll gladly send her back with a refund for what you paid for the original "male", but he also has to pay for what it has costed (is that a word?) you to feed her to get het to her present weight.Remind him also that you were just trying to be honest, and you are getting burned for it. Honestly, if that was me (the breeder) I would let you keep her if you really wanted, cause it was my fault.

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Originally Posted by 4theSNAKElady

OK. This is what I would do. Tell him you are going to keep it, (as collateral) until you get your 07 male. It was his mistake. Tell him he's going to have to take you to court if he wants $800, because even though females sell for more, you have now put money into raising up this animal, and now she's worth even more, because she's bigger. Tell him you'll gladly send her back with a refund for what you paid for the original "male", but he also has to pay for what it has costed (is that a word?) you to feed her to get het to her present weight.Remind him also that you were just trying to be honest, and you are getting burned for it. Honestly, if that was me (the breeder) I would let you keep her if you really wanted, cause it was my fault.

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question: if you can't trust them to send you the snake you've now had order from a batch of eggs which haven't been laid yet... then why would you do any deal with them?

IF i were going to send it back... I'd do so after a full refund.

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Originally Posted by mr~python

tell him no way. he missexed it, its his problem. tell him you're keeping the snake and its his fault.

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x2

Here is where we stand now after several emails and a somewhat heated phone call.

I am bringing the snake to get it resexed by someone else tomorrow. It probes and pops female. Turns out it was sexed by tail length originally. Never knew that was accurate and that was his big screw up. That's about as accurate as sexing it by the spurs.:mad:

Anyway, if it is confirmed as female by a third party, we will work out a cash payment. I will not send the snake back and I will not pay the extra $800. I am thinking $350 and he is thinking $600 so we are still pretty far apart in that regard.

i would be thinking $0. you didnt do ANYTHING wrong. you didnt cheat this guy, you didnt steal from this guy, nothin. yet he still wants you to pay him money for his mistake? doesnt sound right to me.

I am thinking your pretty darn nice.
It's like you go in a store and if they have mis-priced something and you buy it then go home and find out it cost more I don't think the store would ask that you come in and pay the difference.
He was the seller, it his responsiblity to make sure he is selling you the correct item. What if it was the other way around and you had paid more for a female and it turn out be a male? How helpful do you think he would be w/ refunding you the difference in cash ?

Points to ponder.

I honestly think you're crazy if you actually send this person money.

I can't believe they even asked you for more money to begin with.

there is no way in hell I'd ever send someone money for a mistake like this
unless they came to me right after knowing they made a mistake and asked for money

Tell him what option 3 is. You keep the animal because its his fault he sexed wit wrong

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Originally Posted by SPJ

Turns out it was sexed by tail length originally. Never knew that was accurate and that was his big screw up. That's about as accurate as sexing it by the spurs.:mad:

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ok after reading that i think I am starting to change my mind. he had no idea if it was male or female...WHICH MEANS....he more than likely sent out males as females! If he didn't know how to sex it properly, then he probably shouldn't be asking for that much money.

You may have read this one already Steve lol - my fauna response :rockon:



It was the breeders error - he should just suck it up and move on - While I admire your honesty with him, I don't find it fair that you now get told you have to pay him $800 bucks.

You have time and money into this snake as well, and this cannot be overlooked and sent him back for original purchase price either - and since no replacement snake is available till next season "from the seller" - What now?

What if the tables were turned and you paid for a female, and received a male - I would want some sort of reimbursement because it is in fact the sellers job to properly sex and represent what he's offering - Had you not contacted him, there was no loss in money in his eyes till now.

A) Seeing the door your honesty opened, offer him $100 because of "His Mistake", and leave off on a good note with him.

B) Keep it, sell it, breed it, trade it, whatever you will - It's your snake - You don't owe him a dime period. Again it was his error.

Again I think the seller should just suck it up and move on - Perhaps getting 2nd opinions on sexing, and representing what he's offering is in order - not to tell someone "you now owe me money due to "my mistake" in this particular transaction.

Good luck with your decision http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...es/shrug01.gif

After reading that he sexed by tail length and advertised this as a guaranteed sex, he deserved to get ripped.

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Originally Posted by nathanledet

ok after reading that i think I am starting to change my mind. he had no idea if it was male or female...WHICH MEANS....he more than likely sent out males as females! If he didn't know how to sex it properly, then he probably shouldn't be asking for that much money.

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And that is the point where our phone conversation got very heated. As soon as he told me this, I got very angry. You don't sex an animal by tail length, screw up, and then expect compensation for the mistake. This is what made him decide to go to $600 instead of the original $800.
I'm beginning to think I should drop my offer from $350 to ZERO.

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Originally Posted by SPJ

And that is the point where our phone conversation got very heated. As soon as he told me this, I got very angry. You don't sex an animal by tail length, screw up, and then expect compensation for the mistake. This is what made him decide to go to $600 instead of the original $800.
I'm beginning to think I should drop my offer from $350 to ZERO.

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Yes it was unfortunate, but honestly, you would be stupid to give anything back. He is lucky you were honest and may have saved him from losing thousands of dollars. It was his mistake of not being qualified or informed enough to properly sex snakes. Do you really think he would compensate you if he would of sold you a "female" and you realized it was male?

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Originally Posted by SPJ

I'm beginning to think I should drop my offer from $350 to ZERO.

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there we go:) :cool:

Keep the snake. Don't pay any additional $. His mistake is your bonus. OR, have him send you 2 2007 males and then you send back his female!! :D

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Originally Posted by SPJ

I'm beginning to think I should drop my offer from $350 to ZERO.

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Zero is what you owe him - This snake has already been paid for :rockon:

Option #4


Offer him a male pastel for a refund of your $400. Buy this male from Evan for $300 and pocket the left off $100...lol!! Do it...do it :P

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=38388

I agree with everyone posting not to send him any money for his own mistake. If it is bothering you that much then maybe you could offer him one of her offspring (if you plan to breed her), just so no bridges are burned.

Well sometimes ya gotta do what's right for you. do you feel that legal action may be taken against you if you don't give him the 600?

If you are uncomfortable with sending him nothing, then make him a very firm offer of whatever you are willing to send him ($350, or less!). If he says no, then tell him to take you to court. he doesn't have a case.

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Originally Posted by nathanledet

Well sometimes ya gotta do what's right for you. do you feel that legal action may be taken against you if you don't give him the 600?

If you are uncomfortable with sending him nothing, then make him a very firm offer of whatever you are willing to send him ($350, or less!). If he says no, then tell him to take you to court. he doesn't have a case.

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How can legal action be taken against SPJ? It was the sellers' mistake. I think that would be laughed out of any court before any statements were taken

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Originally Posted by tmlowe5704

How can legal action be taken against SPJ? It was the sellers' mistake. I think that would be laughed out of any court before any statements were taken

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exactly. but *what if*....i like to think of every possible situation.

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Originally Posted by cueball

Option #4


Offer him a male pastel for a refund of your $400. Buy this male from Evan for $300 and pocket the left off $100...lol!! Do it...do it :P

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=38388

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That is a handsome little "boy".
And I for one have a ton of faith in Evan making sure he is sending you what you bought.

So the guy sold this snake to you sexed by its tail? So it could have gone either way with the sex. Thats what he gets for selling you this snakes without a "firm" sex.

Next thing is that you have had it and fed it and spent your money on it. If he got that snake back, or you paid him back he would get a bonus. It is your snake now.

If it will help you sleep at night, pay him what you think you still owe him for the female.

This is not a legal dellima, it is a moral one. Having sold a few snakes in my time I can tell you that any mistake that I make that is in my customers favor is just that...my mistake. If I make a mistake and the customer is disatisfied, then I make it right...without making the customer do anything. This seller should be sending you a male pastel anyway for your trouble (in addition to you keeping the female pastel that you have)...afterall, it has obviously affected your breeding plans.


Do not send him (or her) a dime. If you have not already done so expose this person and his business pratices by publishing his (or her) business name here and on the BOI. Do everyone else a favor...let them be judged by their peers in the business.

If you feel a moral obligation to "make it right" (something that the breeder should instead be feeling) then request a full refund and return this animal once your refund is safely deposited in a seperate bank account from which you paid.

Either way, let the buying public know of your experience...dont be shy, Name Names!

JT

Steve, I've read your accounts of this on two forums. You already showed honesty by letting the seller know, you were even willing to pay him for his mistake.
His reaction however clearly shows he has a lot less class and I'd also have to agree that he now should get zip.
Also, an '07 male is a sorry exchange, the prices will likely have dropped more by then and that definately pushes your breeding plans back even farther.

Good luck with whatever you decide though.


edited for spelling errors :D

I would say give them nothing. I am almost positive that there is no way any legal action could be taken by the seller here (the buyer ....that may be another story all together). If not for the seller saying you had to send more money, MAYBE if i knew the person to some extent and thought they were a really good person and it was an honest mistake (not a goof ball screw up like sexing by tail length) i would consider giving them a little bit just because it would show alot of class and as was said earlier, to not burn any bridges. However, since the person tried to make you pay them for their mistake and was apparently very rude about the whole situation, i would say give them nothing, and i wouldnt be to worried about burning bridges in this case, because after this mess i wouldnt want to deal with the person again anyway. I also agree that this person's name should be made public so the rest of us know to stay away.

EDIT: I dont mean to sound as though i think anyone who messes up should be bashed. If someone makes an honest mistake, and does their best to make things right, then I dont see a problem, but in this case the person clearly isnt trying to do whats right.

I just realized I had a kind of similar situation a while back...

A couple of years ago I sold a boa on Reptile Auctions. I was told that it was a female, and that's what I advertised it as. When it got to the buyer, it probed as a male. The way we handled the situation was as follows... He relisted the snake on a no reserve auction, and I ended up giving him the difference from what he paid and what he sold it for. I think it ended up being under $10.00. Worked out great for both of us, and 3 people ended up happy in the end.

Yeah. I wouldn't send a single red cent. Tell him he's gonna have to take you to court. If you wouldn't have even said anything, he never would have known in the first place!!!!!!! ...pssshhht...sexing BPs by tail length......what an IDIOT!!!!

I have to agree with everyone (more or less) else on this, you don't owe him anything. And tbh if the same thing happened to me i wouldn't offer the guy a penny.

What he's doing is bad business practise, he's basically saying you should pay for his mistake?!?! Absurd!

I'd keep the female. She is bigger than when you first got her, and well I for oen sya... arent pastel female worth more and well.. I'd keep her :).. :D

Considering the fact that apparently this snake was sexed by tail length which is openly acknowledged as completely unreliable, then sold to you as a guaranteed male when it could not of course be guaranteed anything.....personally I feel you don't owe this person a dime. If a person calls themselves a breeder they should act in a professional manner and not expect a buyer to financially compensate them for not bothering to sex properly.

Since you thought that was a male you would have expected it to be of breeding age much sooner than this female will now be able to breed and to breed to multiple females for you. Seems to me you are taking a bath on your breeding schedule and the loss of income from potential sales from the offspring of the pastel male which is more than what the female is worth. Had you not resexed this snake you could have wasted an entire breeding cycle putting a female in with your females and wondering why no locks occured! The breeder messed up your plans for that male, so taking the loss on the female is something I think he/she should just deal with (and maybe learn something basic like how to probe/pop!)

Heck send this breeder a link to this thread. :)

P.S. My apologies to real breeders everywhere for using that word to refer to a person who does business this way.

WOW ... Says a lot about what "could" go wrong and how it "might" be handled buying from an "nknown" Stick with the "pros" ... RDR, NERD, VPI, PRK, etc. .... they know how to do it right! :sweeet:

:carrot:

-adam

this may have already been posted but oh well. stop talking to this breeder, make sure you can guarentee its a female, post it on kingsnake.com for about 600-900$ depending on quality and then use the money to but a male + you have just made yourself a few hundred dollars. there is no way in h*ll that i would take an 07 male when if you wanted to you could spend a good 700$ on an 04 adult with the money you could make by selling the female
:)

edit: also what adam said either buy unsexed or buy reputible that knows how to sex. i have a male graziani pastel that i got from greg graziani. i would never sex him as i know greg would never make a mistake like that. the same applies to adam and all other large time breeders

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

WOW ... Says a lot about what "could" go wrong and how it "might" be handled buying from an "nknown" Stick with the "pros" ... RDR, NERD, VPI, PRK, etc. .... they know how to do it right! :sweeet:

:carrot:

-adam

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Or make sure you at least know who you are buying from. There are a lot of small breeders out there that know how to do it right :D

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

WOW ... Says a lot about what "could" go wrong and how it "might" be handled buying from an "nknown" Stick with the "pros" ... RDR, NERD, VPI, PRK, etc. .... they know how to do it right! :sweeet:

:carrot:

-adam

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Adam,wouldn't this be favoring the "pros" over the average breeders? Majority of the people know just looking at the tails is NOT a correct way of sexing a snake.Maybe looking under the tail of certain animals might determine the sex IE rabbit,mouse and etc.If someone is to lazy to learn how to PROPERLY check the sex on snakes then maybe he/she should look up Dr. Dolittle and learn how to talk to them lol:8: .Then he/she could just ask the reptile its sex:rolleyes: :rofl: :rofl: