diet: split peas and lentils

I've mixed up buckets of Becky's rattie mix (b/c I bought so much of the individual bags, I ended up w/about 2.5 molasses buckets worth. :rolleyes: )

Can I sub something else for the split peas and lentils, nutrition-wise????? They're eating everything else but scattering the sp & l's to the bottom of the bedding OR in the little girls cage they're all just left in the bottom of the crocks. I can't afford to just keep vacuumming or throwing the ingredients out.

They're getting yogurt treats, have lab blocks, becky mix and water all free choice. The only difference btwn Becky's mix and what I did, is that I didn't use any muesli cereal, just 100% bran flakes, puffed rice and puffed wheat, oatmeal and the cheerios. Would there be detrimental nutritional value if I just don't use the split peas & lentils in the next batch??

Oh, and the dog food is Iams' Large Breed kibble. A little bit higher protein, but I had about 1/2 bag left over. Will Iams' Kitten food be good enough for the nursing mommies??? Squeeky got kind of thin, despite my feeding her the fresh foods, chkn bones, and free-choice mix and blocks.

Thanks!

http://www.ratnutrition.com/suppleme...forbiddenfoods You might find this helpful. Also I have been told that lentils can be dangerous to rats. Hope this helps.

Nancy, thanks for posting that link. It was very informative.

Thanks Nancy! I've been looking for that link ever since I lost it when our hard drive died. Basically beans and lentils are proteins...I think about 1/2 cup is about the same as 1 oz of meat that way. So as long as they are getting the protein from a good dog food or other source I'd think you'd be fine. Mine get enough protein that I don't always add in the peas and lentils as they don't eat it all that well either. Remember Becky's mix is a guide, you can play around with it and the rats will enjoy the variety. Mine is different every week depending on what I see on sale or add in (ends of boxes of cereal, bit of dry pasta left in a bag, etc.) I just make sure the basics are there (good dry kibble, lab block, large flake old fashioned oatmeal, etc.)

If you can find a dog food that has 18% or less protein, you would be better off. Higher fat is what you are looking for, when feeding pregnant/nursing moms. I use Wellness Senior, but not everyone can($12 for 8lbs). Nutro is a good food too, get the Senior.

Sometimes I put peas and lentils, sometimes I don't. My mix(about 50lbs every 3-4 months) varies every time I make it. I like adding Kashi GoLean, Kashi Crunch, any of the fun granola cereals, whole in shell nuts(walnuts, pecans, filberts, etc), raisin bran, brown rice, oatmeal, whole flaxseed(2-3lbs each time I make the mix, it works wonders on their coats and skin), tons of tri-colored and wheat pasta, wild rice if you can find it, rice chex, wheat chex, puffed wheat and rice, etc.

I would stick with a lower protein, higher fat content mix. High protein is harder on their kidneys and makes them more susceptible to allergies(itching and scabbing ickiness). If a female has problems holding weight regardless of what you are feeding her, I wouldn't breed her again. It's just not worth it, IMO, to have the babies undersized and her body wasting away. Takes alot of time to get them back to weight. I have one female, Reggie, who had 14 babies and lost a dramatic amount of weight. The babies were all good-sized though. We haven't bred her again as it just takes too much out of her and she was exhausted all of the time.

Hope that helps a bit! And no, Lentils and dried peas aren't poisonous :) If they were, my rats would have been dead years ago, LOL.

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Originally Posted by SatanicIntention

Hope that helps a bit! And no, Lentils and dried peas aren't poisonous :) If they were, my rats would have been dead years ago, LOL.

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I don't recall saying they would kill your rats. I have heard repeatedly that lentils were hard on rats as far as digestion, along with dried beans etc.

Thx all!


Isn't the raisin bran sort of a mixed blessing??? I almost bought a box of it, but with the raisins sprinkled w/sugar, I didn't succomb.

Other than the higher protein in the reg. dog kibble that was leftovers, and the muesli cereal, I've got the other things in the becky mix. Whole peanuts, cheerios, tri-colored pasta, oatmeal, cranberries (just a few of those and the bulk, unsweetened raisins) yadda yadda :blahblah: :blahblah: :D

Another good HI FAT substitute? I give the thin pbutter or olive oil/ bread as treats, but was wondering if there's a better way that I can put it into the mix/diet.....Would the flaxseed have some more fat to add?

I've heard it alot too, and read it on alot of inexperienced or unknowing peoples' websites. I've asked my vet and she says they're fine. Some rats like them and some don't. Beans, peas and lentils are a very good source of protein as well as helping to prevent cancer and other illnesses. Here's a good reference I found that talks about the effects of beans on rats in the 4th paragraph:
http://www.americanbean.org/HealthNu...d%20Cancer.htm

I've found that canned cat food helps, as well as tuna, salmon, etc. You can give a little bit of puppy food here and there, a well as cooked pasta, raw liver(chicken or beef, no preference), you "can" cook the livers, but the smell is gawdawful(or is that just me?). Yogurt is good, soymilk/almond milk via water bottle is well-enjoyed and gives some calories. You can also go to your veterinarian and ask for a few cans of Hills Prescription Diet a/d. It has calories and fat galore and is meant for putting on weight or animals recovering. Each can should only be around $1 or so. You can give a bit of that every day, and it will help her keep the weight on better.

Naaaaw, Becky....that's just YOU!!!!!:P :P Yuuuuuuummmmmm Liver and onions!!! Lots of onions and liver. Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm


Thanks for the ideas... I should have thought of the A/D food. Pesky has to eat it b/c of her damaged jaw, so I almost always have some on hand. I'll start feeding some of that in dibbles to the mommies if they start losing weight.

they regularly get yogurt as the drops as treats, but usu. two or three at a time. I'll check into the soymilk, and maybe tofu. (?) WE don't drink/eat that stuff... :puke: but I can buy it for our ratty sweeties. :)


RuLyn

i also find my ratties won't eat the split peas or lentils... so i've decided to leave them out this next time i make the mix.

i've started going to the market and buying whatever is on sale or sounds yummy... i try to change it up each time i make it to give them variety.

i keep forgetting to give them the lab blocks though. ugh. we've had a problem with pantry moths so it has to be kept in the freezer and i keep thinking "i have to take this out" and it never seems to leave the freezer :eek:

they do, however get other foods daily. silkworms (protien), butterworms (calcium), cooked egg whites, bread with olive oil, chicken, bones, cooked rice, pasta... whatever is available that day.

but i've got to get those lab blocks back out of the freezer now that the moths are gone... (we've had to start keeping all our bird food, cat food etc in our freezer)

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Originally Posted by SatanicIntention

I've heard it alot too, and read it on alot of inexperienced or unknowing peoples' websites.

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Everyone feeds according to what they feel is best. That doesn't make someone more right because they don't agree. I hear you are a vet tech. Promising career yet keep in mind vets are not perfect. About any natural food is good if given in the right balance. Protien is great when not overdone. I don't shoot someone down because they believe in feeding a certain way. There are many things in this world you will come to realize when you have been a practicing vet for a while. One thing is that your cutting remarks and putting words in someones mouth will not help in your line of work. To treat an animal you must first have the trust of your client.

I'm sorry, but I don't see anywhere that I put words in others' mouths. I was just citing that I had read and have been told that these things were bad for rats by people who hadn't properly researched and were just going off of what someone else told them.


On the internet, everything should be read as a calm, flat tone of voice. If you don't, you'll take someone's words wrong and come up with what you thought I had as a tone of voice, Nancy. I don't belittle anyone, I just try to share my knowledge the best way I can. I am a very straight-forward type of person, and will say something if it needs to be said(especially if someone is feeding their dog or cat Dinner Time or Ol' Roy crap...).

I was just stating that I have heard others say these exact same things on a rat forum I visit. They were misinformed so I helped inform them that these things are good to feed and will help their rats live longer, healthier lives if they eat them. I'm very passionate about helping animals and their owners, even if it means correcting something they are doing wrong. If it helps them not have to take their animals to the vet every other week, I'll say/do it.

Back to the topic:
Yeah, I try to change up their mix everytime I make it. They get alot of organics(while I eat generic food...LoL), cereals, pastas, fresh foods, etc. My rats eat better than I do(although I do eat some of their mix now and then.. Hehe).

How about cracked or whole corn as an ingredient?

My "temporary" feeders (we get them a few days early each week before feeding day) don't eat the split peas or lentils either - nor the in-shell, unsalted peanuts....nor the Nutro Senior dog food. =P But they absolutely snarf down the rest of it!

I thought corn was bad...can't remember why tho. =P

corn is not good unless it's fresh and then, only in small amounts occassionally.

;) well the ratties went nuts when i brought their lab blocks out of the freezer today. they looked at me like "finally, she remembered!" :D

hahahahaha

What is wrong with corn? A lot of people use grain with cracked corn for horses.. is it b/c it's too abrasive for their digestive tracts?

It's because of the aflatoxins(mold) that grows on dried corn. It is poisonous and will slowly kill them. Not to menion, corn has no nutritional value other than to fill them up and make them think they are full. Like crappy dog foods(Ol' Roy, Kibbles N Bits, Purina junk, etc), the main ingredient is corn, which dogs can't digest(cats can somewhat). They have to eat so much of that nasty dog food to even get anything out of it nutrition-wise, and what goes in must come out in double quantities. Higher quality dog and cat foods such as Nutro, Science Diet, Wellness, Blue Buffalo, etc, have their first ingredient as an actual meat(deboned chicken, Turkey, buffalo, lamb). A bi-product can contain anything really, even just a bit of blood and sawdust can be classified as a "chicken bi-product, or beef bi-product". And these by-products can contain anything such as chicken beaks, feet, nails, feathers, skin, bovine ears, tails, hide, etc. It's always interesting for me to look on ingredient lists for certain dog foods and marvel at what junk they really put in them.

Horses can digest the corn because they can ferment these grains in their hindgut and can actually use the carbohydrates produced, not to mention they are grazers by nature and aren't harmed by a little fungi(Fun Guys, woot!). Rats cannot and the mold will slowly build up in their system and kill them.

It's just not a good quality source of nutrition. It would be like feeding your breeding dogs/cats Ol' Roy and wondering why they have skin/fur issues, are losing weight, and the puppies/kittens are small and not developing properly. Know what I mean? :)

Also, did you know that being "corn-fed" (like in beef cattle), it's not a good thing? The high amounts of corn can result in yellowing of the meat. You are what you eat. A proper diet goes such a long way in providing healthy, robust feeders for our snakes.