Homozygous Spiders

I'm just curious. Does anybody have a Homozygous Spider? A "Super Spider" if you will, although I know it doesn't look any different then a regular spider. I'm just curious though.

The proof would be breed this Homozygous Spider with a Normal and get all Spiders.

as far as i know the super spider hasnt been proven yet.

Thats kinda what I thought, because I never read it being referenced. One would assume though that somewhere along the line someone would've wanted to make a Super Spider, and just realized that it looks like a normal spider, but it can produce more spidey babies.

What about this...

http://www.ballpython.ca/what_get/dominant.html

He was just listing spider as a dominate trait. Only some froms of dominate traits have proven double homo possiable. Pastel, Cinni, Mojovie. In theroy there could be a super spider but it hasn't made it to the main stream. YET!

I would guess its been pretty much ruled out as a possibility at this point. :D The ones you mentioned are co-doms because there is a super form.

I would say that I mean up untill a while back we thought that only 2 Lessers could make a totaly white snake. But now we found that.. what is it... 2 Mojoves, or cinni's or pewters or somthing ?can? produce totaly white offspring also. So keep your fingers crossed someone will hit the lotto sooner or later.

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

I would say that I mean up untill a while back we thought that only 2 Lessers could make a totaly white snake. But now we found that.. what is it... 2 Mojoves, or cinni's or pewters or somthing ?can? produce totaly white offspring also. So keep your fingers crossed someone will hit the lotto sooner or later.

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There is no lotto to hit. Don't you think if there was a super that Kevin at NERD would have produced it already? He is the originator of nearly every Spider mutation out there. (if not all).

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Originally Posted by jglass38

The ones you mentioned are co-doms because there is a super form.

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OOOPS

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Originally Posted by jglass38

There is no lotto to hit. Don't you think if there was a super that Kevin at NERD would have produced it already? He is the originator of nearly every Spider mutation out there. (if not all).

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Yea for some reason my mind put spider in the codom group.. Please disregard my brain fart

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

Yea for some reason my mind put spider in the codom group.. Please disregard my brain fart

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I pardon you. :D

Did a spider x normal breeding last year that produced all spider offspring.

The male spider that was used is a product of a spider X spider breeding.

I think super spider, call it what you want. :)

No visual clues, looks like any other spider.

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Originally Posted by ECLARK

Did a spider x normal breeding last year that produced all spider offspring.

The male spider that was used is a product of a spider X spider breeding.

I think super spider, call it what you want. :)

No visual clues, looks like any other spider.

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exactly.

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Originally Posted by Griggs2121

exactly.

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it could have just been the odds. breed it a few years and then I will listen

not really look how long it took the pied to prove out and live

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Originally Posted by jglass38

There is no lotto to hit. Don't you think if there was a super that Kevin at NERD would have produced it already? He is the originator of nearly every Spider mutation out there. (if not all).

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Originally Posted by tmlowe5704

it could have just been the odds. breed it a few years and then I will listen

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I guess we'll see... :)

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Originally Posted by tmlowe5704

it could have just been the odds. breed it a few years and then I will listen

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No not just the odds when you get 7 spiders out of 7 eggs, this years breedings should shed some light on this hopefully. :)

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Originally Posted by jglass38

There is no lotto to hit. Don't you think if there was a super that Kevin at NERD would have produced it already? He is the originator of nearly every Spider mutation out there. (if not all).

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Thats an interesting question Jamie, I wonder if kevin has done any spider X spider breedings. seems to me hes more about breeding different morphs together to produce new stuff as opposed to just reproducing the same morphs over and over. :)

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Originally Posted by ECLARK

No not just the odds when you get 7 spiders out of 7 eggs, this years breedings should shed some light on this hopefully. :)

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well i have seen people that get 100% of eggs from het x visual be visuals. your chances are statistically doubled when working with doms and co doms so I am just saying that I personally would not go just by 1 year of breeding.

I am not saying you are wrong, just saying it will take more proof for me

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Originally Posted by ECLARK

No not just the odds when you get 7 spiders out of 7 eggs, this years breedings should shed some light on this hopefully. :)

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I think I remember hearing that someone got 7 out of 7 'binos.... maybe he's got some kind of super 'bino! :twisted:

edit: and that was from homo albino to het albino

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Originally Posted by ddbjdealer

I think I remember hearing that someone got 7 out of 7 'binos.... maybe he's got some kind of super 'bino! :twisted:

edit: and that was from homo albino to het albino

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:carrot:

-adam

From what I understand the odds are per egg not per clutch so if a dom(co-dom) is 50% with a normal per egg then getting all of the dom or co-dom is not inconcivable. Isn't that how it works?

Yea, thats how it work. I was just thinking that people have been breeding spiders long enough to wonder if theres a super spider, and just dicovered the fact that there are homozygous spiders that look the same as the hetozygous.

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Originally Posted by tmlowe5704

it could have just been the odds. breed it a few years and then I will listen

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Breed him to 5 females, if that produces all spiders, woohoo


As far as all 7, wont all 7 be spider almost 1% of the time?

I saw ARS's regular mojave x normal do 7 out of 8 mojaves or something, maybe it was 8 out of 9?, that was crazy.

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Originally Posted by SnakeySnakeSnake

Breed him to 5 females, if that produces all spiders, woohoo


As far as all 7, wont all 7 be spider almost 1% of the time?

I saw ARS's regular mojave x normal do 7 out of 8 mojaves or something, maybe it was 8 out of 9?, that was crazy.

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Thats the plan, breed him to as many normal females as he can. that way the results will be quite obvious. just dont like the fact that I cant follow up with another male spider. :)

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Originally Posted by ECLARK

just dont like the fact that I cant follow up with another male spider. :)

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What do you mean?

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Originally Posted by Griggs2121

What do you mean?

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What I mean is I want to see specific results. running another male spider throught the females could cloud the issue and not give me the results that Im looking for. Lets say Im breeding to produce spiders only, first breed male A to all the females, then run male B by all the femaes to insure that all the females have been bred and fertility is high. :)

spider https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...008640x480.jpg

Is it a common practise to use more than one male (even of the same morph) with the same female?

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Is it a common practise to use more than one male (even of the same morph) with the same female?

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Yup. ;)

-adam

Thanks Adam. I've got so dang much to learn about breeding on a bigger scale - does it ever stop? The constant wanting to know more? Seems like every other day I'm going "hmmmm never thought of that!" :)

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Thats the plan, breed him to as many normal females as he can. that way the results will be quite obvious. just dont like the fact that I cant follow up with another male spider. :)

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Actually, if you can swing it, it would also be best to breed to a number of virgin females. I'm personally of the belief that retained sperm happens a lot more often then we think it does.

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Originally Posted by MarkS

Actually, if you can swing it, it would also be best to breed to a number of virgin females. I'm personally of the belief that retained sperm happens a lot more often then we think it does.

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yep, have some first timers ready to go now.

Look forward to an update on all this, Ed! :)

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Originally Posted by ECLARK

What I mean is I want to see specific results. running another male spider throught the females could cloud the issue and not give me the results that Im looking for. Lets say Im breeding to produce spiders only, first breed male A to all the females, then run male B by all the femaes to insure that all the females have been bred and fertility is high. :)

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Oh, I didn't know that was common practice. I see. Beautiful Spider btw, the pattern on their heads is maybe my favorite part :)

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Originally Posted by SnakeySnakeSnake

As far as all 7, wont all 7 be spider almost 1% of the time?

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That's right. With each egg from a heterozygous spider (as far as we know so far visible spiders are heterozygous for the spider gene, the question here is if there is also a homozygous spider) X normal having a 50% chance of getting the spider gene the odds of that happening 7 of 7 times is 0.5 ^ 7 or about 0.8% (8 out of 1,000). I would suspect there have been hundreds of spider X normal clutches by now so we would expect a few lucky clutches. Hopefully this one is homozygous and Ed can let us finally know that a homozygous spider is possible and what it's like. However if his does turn out to have just been lucky the first clutch we are back to the difficult task of proving something by its absence. Is there ever a point where we can say it's been long enough without a proven homozygous spider to "prove" it can't be done?

I would think if you continued to do spider x spider breedings and proving out the babies, at some point you'd be able to make that judement. I still think that his has to be somebody plan already, I just think this would've happend already. But maybe not.

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Originally Posted by Griggs2121

I would think if you continued to do spider x spider breedings and proving out the babies, at some point you'd be able to make that judement. I still think that his has to be somebody plan already, I just think this would've happend already. But maybe not.

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Chad, I really dont think that there is much spider x spider breeding going on, think about it. its kinda counter productive breeding a spider to another spider just to end up with a bunch of spiders. split that pair up and breed them to any other co-dom and end up with a clutch of eggs that are worth 4x or more than the spiders. :)

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Originally Posted by Griggs2121

I would think if you continued to do spider x spider breedings and proving out the babies, at some point you'd be able to make that judement. I still think that his has to be somebody plan already, I just think this would've happend already. But maybe not.

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breeding morphs with morphs is typically only done with recessive since it you cant breed to a normal and make visuals.

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Originally Posted by tmlowe5704

breeding morphs with morphs is typically only done with recessive since it you cant breed to a normal and make visuals.

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WHAT are you smoking?

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Chad, I really dont think that there is much spider x spider breeding going on, think about it. its kinda counter productive breeding a spider to another spider just to end up with a bunch of spiders. split that pair up and breed them to any other co-dom and end up with a clutch of eggs that are worth 4x or more than the spiders. :)

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True, but I think it would be more then worthwhile to have a homozygous spider as a breeder. If for no other reason then to cut down on the normal males in a clutch that are often hard just to find homes for, much less sell.

Mark

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Originally Posted by ECLARK

WHAT are you smoking?

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If I am wrong, I take it back. It's just that on a lot of breeder's sites when they list the pairings, most of the time it it just to normals. And recessive x recessive

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Originally Posted by tmlowe5704

If I am wrong, I take it back. It's just that on a lot of breeder's sites when they list the pairings, most of the time it it just to normals. And recessive x recessive

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Het x Het crossings are useful with any co-dominant trait. Pastels are heterozygous for the pastel gene. Pastel x Pastel would allow you to produce a superpastel (the phenotype that results from being homozygous for pastel).

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Originally Posted by tmlowe5704

If I am wrong, I take it back. It's just that on a lot of breeder's sites when they list the pairings, most of the time it it just to normals. And recessive x recessive

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Did not mean to be so harsh, It surprised me. its the complete opposite of what you posted. not trying to offend just my nature. :rockon:

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Originally Posted by ECLARK

Chad, I really dont think that there is much spider x spider breeding going on, think about it. its kinda counter productive breeding a spider to another spider just to end up with a bunch of spiders. split that pair up and breed them to any other co-dom and end up with a clutch of eggs that are worth 4x or more than the spiders. :)

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Yea, maybe not much of it, but as stated it would be worthwhile to have a homozygous Spider for purpose of breeding, as stated. But you could make more spiders if you have a homozygous spider. Also, I'm just saying I think that SOMEONE would want to attempt to find a super spider, and in the process discover that it has the same appearance as a regular spider.