what makes the best supers?

PLEASE NOTE: you can select more than one option!

okay so i have a question for all you amazing breeders out there. what, in your opinion is the best way to go about making supers?

lemon pastel X lemon pastel

VPI pastel x VPI pastel

or

lemon pastel X VPI pastel

i'm in the process of ordering myself a pair of pastels... and some 100% het pieds as well. my goal is to create some pieds and some super pastels and then be able to breed the supers to the pieds. of course this is a long term goal... obviously, but i want to start off with the right stuff! https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...4/7/dance2.gif

so... if it were you and you had already chosen your lemon female... what would you pick for a male?

Best supers are made with yellow bellies, The Ivory Ball. :)

Love yellow bellies, greatly dislike the Ivory. Then again I greatly dislike most white snakes so...

I have a hard time finding lemons that have the patterns I want so I'd say a VPI pastel.

Have fun shopping!!

i would really love to hear the reasons why each of you is voting the way you are... i know what i 'think' i want to do but there's just so much info and i'd love to be able to pick your brains. as breeders... you all know what does and doesn't seem to be working for you. ;)

It is all about preference. What are you looking for in a super pastel? Shop around at breeders and find one that produces super pastels that you like, then buy into that pastel stock. I think super lemons, super graziani's, super VPIs, Mixed supers.....all look good if they are produced from quality animals; however, they each have a different 'look' in my opinion. Personally, I prefer Super Graziani Pastels......from a quality high blushing stock ;)

Then again....Since you have decided on a Lemon pastel female.....it never hurts to go to the originator of the line....I am sure someone from NERD knows what mixes best with their animals and would be happy to fill you in :D

I picked up a lemon because of the pictures I had seen of lemons as adults. They really do hold their color a lot better than the other lines IMO. I'm also hoping to make some Bees and the solid black and bright yellow of a lemon is exactly what I was looking for. Either line you decided on still depends on picking out the right animal, but I know how you feel about quality, so whichever way you go you should be set.

Opps that was for the breeders...sorry.

Adam helped me out with that same question!

He suggested to go with VPI x VPI, or VPI x Lemon....as both would make killer supers. Lemon supers are supposedly more subtle supers, they aren't the knock your socks off quality supers.

I ended up choosing a VPI male and a Lemon female. I went with the lemon pastel female because he recommended to use lemons for crosses/combos, as they normally enhance combos. Supers are my short term goal (2-3 years), long term I want to produce Hypo Pastels, and Super Pastel Hypos...as well as a few other crosses.

Hope it helps some with your decision!

-Jason

this is helping us decide on what our next move should be..we have a Lemon Pastel Male.....so it would be wiser for us to go with a VPI female?

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Originally Posted by TheAudOne

this is helping us decide on what our next move should be..we have a Lemon Pastel Male.....so it would be wiser for us to go with a VPI female?

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From what I have seen.. I would personally say go for the lemon x lemon mix!

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Originally Posted by stangs13

Opps that was for the breeders...sorry.

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Are you just trying to be a :cens0r:

Or is it the 14 year old in you?

i think the hardest part for me is i've never seen any morphs (except a bee) IRL and i don't have any way of seeing any IRL until i actually purchase them and grow them up myself.

this is why i want to know, what other experienced morph breeders think. i really respect adam's opinion and i already know what he thinks... but as we all know... it's important to do your OWN homework and no expect to be handfed all the info.

i've been reading online.. looking at websites, and i can't really tell from the pictures what the difference is (also they seldom have titles with the pics even though they look different you don't know what they used to produce that particular super)

so i thought i'd pester all of you here... so that, i can say with confidence that i did my homework BEFORE buying!

thanks to all who have replied... and please, if anyone else has anything to say.. i'm listening :)

i just say the post above mine... stang... if you have something to share, please feel free to do so. yes i asked for breeders to respond but i didn't mean to leave anyone out. ;)

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Originally Posted by Spaniard

Are you just trying to be a :cens0r:

Or is it the 14 year old in you?

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Nope. It was the awnser I posted. I missed the part where it stated that she wanted breeders opinions. Chill.

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Originally Posted by recycling goddess

i just say the post above mine... stang... if you have something to share, please feel free to do so. yes i asked for breeders to respond but i didn't mean to leave anyone out. ;)

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Thanks...lol. Im trying to be good.;)

all this morph talk is making me dizzy lol.i'll get used to what morph is what later on lol.once i get the hang of how to identify each morph.

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Originally Posted by stangs13

Nope. It was the awnser I posted. I missed the part where it stated that she wanted breeders opinions. Chill.

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I thought what you posted was towards me, since I'm not a breeder and it was right after my post. Read it again, I'm sure you'll see how I could have taken it the other way.

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I picked up a lemon because of the pictures I had seen of lemons as adults. They really do hold their color a lot better than the other lines IMO. I'm also hoping to make some Bees and the solid black and bright yellow of a lemon is exactly what I was looking for. Either line you decided on still depends on picking out the right animal, but I know how you feel about quality, so whichever way you go you should be set.

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I dont see where you said that.:confused:

I'm really hoping that lemon to vpi will create some awesome supers for me... being that I have two adult vpi girls, and one adult lemon male... Next season will be the season I hopefully find out what those two lines make together! :)

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Originally Posted by ddbjdealer

I'm really hoping that lemon to vpi will create some awesome supers for me... being that I have two adult vpi girls, and one adult lemon male... Next season will be the season I hopefully find out what those two lines make together! :)

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And you sure as heck better post pictures when those babies hatch Ken, so I know what I'm to look forward to!:rockon:

-Jason

Of all the supers I have seen, I think the lemons look the best... :)

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Originally Posted by ddbjdealer

I'm really hoping that lemon to vpi will create some awesome supers for me... being that I have two adult vpi girls, and one adult lemon male... Next season will be the season I hopefully find out what those two lines make together! :)

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so what made you decide to go that way? vpi and lemons = supers

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Originally Posted by recycling goddess

so what made you decide to go that way? vpi and lemons = supers

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It wasn't a purposeful choice... I bought the two VPI girls first and they are both 50% poss het hypos.. The lemon male I purchased this season and he's an 05... I purchased him so that I could make some more lemons, and possibly make some other cool crosses next year when the two VPI girls will be hopefully proved to be het hypos... The following year, I'll probably make some supers (Lemon/VPI) and some bumblebees... by then, my spider girl will be up to size to put the lemon with her.... I look forward to making both lemon bees, and vpi bees to compare the two lines...

Limes are fantastic with Corona & Negra Modelo.

I personally *lurve* Super Lemons because they aren't as blushed out & faded as the Supers from other lines, but I'm big on contrast. By the same token, a top-shelf Lemon can rival a Super Lemon when it's all said and done. Super Lemons consistently throw *very* refined Lemons, and clean up other projects as a result...we use them to take combos to the next level - i.e. Axanthic Killer Bees, etc.

If you're into lots of blushing & fading, Lemons would probably be your second choice. Then again, Lemon x Graziani/VPI/other pastel lines regularly produce nice pastels with contrast and blushing, so there's benefit in mixing the two if you want some variety in your offspring, with an extra shot at hitting "the best of both worlds," IMO.

HTH!

K~

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Originally Posted by KLG

Limes are fantastic with Corona & Negra Modelo.

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Mmmmmmmmmm.... :rockon:

How do you make the supers anywho?

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Originally Posted by Pork Chops N' Corn Bread

How do you make the supers anywho?

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Two pastels bred together "should" yield some super pastels. It's all about the ball python gods and how much you've offered up to them! ;)

But a super pastel is a result of a pastel x pastel breeding.

I personally like all.....I personally like the bright pastel orange in the blushing and the fading on graziani's. But I also love the lemony-yellow color with the black background on the lemon's. Enchi's are nice too! It's definetly about what you prefer or what you like. I can't wait t'ill the day I hatch a super tho....

:rockon:

Is there a certain percent of the offspring that should be super?

Originally Posted by KLG
Limes are fantastic with Corona & Negra Modelo.



Oh yea...:sunny:

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Originally Posted by Pork Chops N' Corn Bread

Is there a certain percent of the offspring that should be super?

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From a Pastel x Pastel pairing you "should" get:
25% Normal
50% Pastel
25% Supers

So for example, in a 4 egg clutch you "should" get one normal, two pastels, and one super. You could get all normals, all pastels, or all supers...and any varying mixture of the three. Like said before, all depends on how well the ball gods like you. ;)

Also you could breed a Super x Pastel:
50% Pastel
50% Super

Again, you could get all pastels or all supers, or a mixture of the two. Each egg has a 50% chance of being a super pastel.

or breed a Super x Super:
100% Super

-Jason

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Originally Posted by KLG

Limes are fantastic with Corona & Negra Modelo.

I personally *lurve* Super Lemons because they aren't as blushed out & faded as the Supers from other lines, but I'm big on contrast. By the same token, a top-shelf Lemon can rival a Super Lemon when it's all said and done. Super Lemons consistently throw *very* refined Lemons, and clean up other projects as a result...we use them to take combos to the next level - i.e. Axanthic Killer Bees, etc.

If you're into lots of blushing & fading, Lemons would probably be your second choice. Then again, Lemon x Graziani/VPI/other pastel lines regularly produce nice pastels with contrast and blushing, so there's benefit in mixing the two if you want some variety in your offspring, with an extra shot at hitting "the best of both worlds," IMO.

HTH!

K~

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i'm getting the idea that no matter which way i go... i'll end up with the possibility of something amazing.

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Originally Posted by recycling goddess

i'm getting the idea that no matter which way i go... i'll end up with the possibility of something amazing.

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That is if you have pleased the ball gods! (pssst...you can please them by making me cookies;) ) You could get all pastels.:P

-Jason

oh and do i have the BEST cookies!!!!!!

but... you need to have PMS to eat them... so... how about faking some PMS and then i can hand some over to ya. ;)

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Originally Posted by recycling goddess

oh and do i have the BEST cookies!!!!!!

but... you need to have PMS to eat them... so... how about faking some PMS and then i can hand some over to ya. ;)

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Poor Man's Syndrome? If so, then I have PMS!:laughing:

okay then you get 4 cookies!!! :D

I think we need someone to post some pics of the options.
.... Anyone??

haha. guess I'm a little late on this one.. For some reason it popped up under "latest polls". Oh well!

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Originally Posted by casperca

haha. guess I'm a little late on this one.. For some reason it popped up under "latest polls". Oh well!

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:P My bad! All our more recent polls have held that slot, or are not really relevant to the site. So that one is there for now. If anyone makes a new poll (that isn't asking what they should have for lunch today :P ) I'll make sure it ends up in that box. ;)

i alloways herd form numerious big breeders that the garzinnie (sp) line is the one that makes the best supers. even though there colors of the pastells are a bit darkish. there is also a lot of buzz about problems with the lemmons.

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Originally Posted by MATT FISHER REPTILES

i alloways herd form numerious big breeders that the garzinnie (sp) line is the one that makes the best supers. even though there colors of the pastells are a bit darkish. there is also a lot of buzz about problems with the lemmons.

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What kind of problems ???

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Originally Posted by MATT FISHER REPTILES

there is also a lot of buzz about problems with the lemmons.

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I've been working with NERD line lemon pastels since 99 ... haven't had any problems nor have I heard of any???

Maybe you can share what you've heard and then KLG (Kara from NERD) can directly address your concerns right here on the forum? ... I think that it would be a great benefit to the Bp.Net community to put it out there and have it addressed?

Thanks Matt.

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

I've been working with NERD line lemon pastels since 99 ... haven't had any problems nor have I heard of any???

Maybe you can share what you've heard and then KLG (Kara from NERD) can directly address your concerns right here on the forum? ... I think that it would be a great benefit to the Bp.Net community to put it out there and have it addressed?

Thanks Matt.

-adam

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Agreed if there are rumors running around I would like to know what they are just for my own education...

Not bashing Matt I'd just like to hear what he has heard.. :rockon:

I'd also like to hear which geniuses are spreading silly rumors...

well personally I heard if you put lemons in your water or tea, they make it a bit more sour, but further testing must be performed to test this theory.

If you'd like to help with testing you could donate to the PWB (poor white boy)fund or simply donate a lemon to be dipped in water! :)

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Originally Posted by Holbeird

well personally I heard if you put lemons in your water or tea, they make it a bit more sour, but further testing must be performed to test this theory.

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:clap:

I love lemons in my tea...

i hate to break up the tea commentary, but can someone put up or link a pic to a mixed super? because I've seen super grazi's ive seen super lemons and ive seen super VPIs, and I'm sure I've seen mixed, but never seen it markes as such... so plleeeaaassseee? thanks

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Originally Posted by jglass38

I love lemons in my tea...

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No lemons in my tea thank you, then again I currently live in the south and enjoy all the sugar in my tea also :-p

now lemons in my water (not to mention my tubs/tanks) I love!

i read it on a kingsnake fourm once. i will try to find a link. they mentioned kinks or something (like with the different carmel albino lines). all i said was i herd this info/ not that it was fact. so thanks for the neg rep whoever sent it. some people are so shallow.

This...

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Originally Posted by MATT FISHER REPTILES

there is also a lot of buzz about problems with the lemmons.

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...and this...

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Originally Posted by MATT FISHER REPTILES

i read it on a kingsnake fourm once.

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...one kingsnake post is 'a lot of buzz?'

:confused: