New Rat Rack

http://www.madmarsh.com/pics/newRatRackFront.jpg
http://www.madmarsh.com/pics/newRatRackAngled.jpg
http://www.madmarsh.com/pics/newRatRackSider.jpg
http://www.madmarsh.com/pics/newRatRackFull.jpg

First rack of my own design.

Auto watering/feeding. Cage design with 1/2" hardware cloth and melamine for the bottom.

Dimensions: 4' wide 3' deep 6' tall
Puropse: Breeding only. Fat rats rotated out to individual or paired maternity tubs and new rats rotated in.

Chew points minimzed and escapability should be minimal, but will test this one out for a while to find out what the rats decide to exploit.

I can see a potintial problem. I keep my rats in the basement, they were near the heater. when the heat kicked on all the rat odor would be drawn into the house with the cold air return. I had to relocate the rats because of that. :)

Hope you do not run into the same problem. Good Luck.

Is the auto watering set up really as simple as it looks? Also, are their ball valve type ends from regular water bottles in the ends of the hoses or what?

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Originally Posted by ECLARK

I can see a potintial problem. I keep my rats in the basement, they were near the heater. when the heat kicked on all the rat odor would be drawn into the house with the cold air return. I had to relocate the rats because of that. :)

Hope you do not run into the same problem. Good Luck.

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This is my garage aka Rat Central :)


I learned the same lesson you did in the house :(

Window into the madness

http://www.ball-pythons.net/gallery/.../8/ratRoom.jpg

I think it is a great idea!! I may try something like that (with the very little space I have left in the rodent shed.....) but one question. How do clean 'em? :confused: Maybe a shop vac? I think that's probably why tubs are used so commonly, just pull out and dump. Have you cleaned them out yet? If so how'd it go?

-Evan

Nice rack... how easy is it to clean, though? It looks like you have to scoop everything out.

BTW, when are you going to change your handle to RattyRatRat? :D

A shop vac works GREAT for cleaning these out, if you need you can attach a plastic putty scraper to the end of a 2x2 to reach back and scrape anything stuck to the bottom and then vaccuum out, the rats all run away, and are too big to be sucked up, and then you just dump in the bedding and spread it around.

That is a good question about the nickname, but the rats are a means to an ends :)

For smaller racks I like the tub setup and being able to dump out the bedding, but cleaning 8 breeder tubs vs cleaning these 2 cages with a shop vac, this rack I would say is a bit less work, and when the rats cooperate, it beats having to transfer them around.

but isnt there still some trouble when there's pinks involved? or do put the mothers with litters in separate tubs?

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Originally Posted by SnakeySnakeSnake

...cleaning 8 breeder tubs vs cleaning these 2 cages with a shop vac, this rack I would say is a bit less work, and when the rats cooperate, it beats having to transfer them around.

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Good point on the transferring thing! Hmmm... how to fit a couple of these into an already crowded shed :hmm: ......

-Evan

This is for breeding only for me. When the rats get fat, they are swapped out into individual or shared maternity tubs, and new rats are swapped in.

This would also work for growout, and if you put aluminum flashing around the bottom edge should work for pinks too (unless the mothers really try hard to push them out).

I used 1/2" hw cloth for the sides, but you could use smaller to keep pinks in if needed.

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Originally Posted by Evan Jamison

Good point on the transferring thing! Hmmm... how to fit a couple of these into an already crowded shed :hmm: ......

-Evan

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Time to build a second story

I hadn't even thought about the pinks getting out. I meant for the vacuuming, but either way putting them in new containers fixes it.

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Originally Posted by piranhaking

I hadn't even thought about the pinks getting out. I meant for the vacuuming, but either way putting them in new containers fixes it.

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Yeah for vaccuuming pinks could be tricky :) especially the ones that get seperated and hide in the bedding

Bryan,


W/all the breeders in a large communal cage, are U concerned w/sires of which litters???

What's your ratio in that one picture? I'm getting to the point where the First Home cages don't work any more, and I need grow out tubs, but our garage is too cold. I like your latest design and am VERY interested on how it works for you.

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Originally Posted by sweety314

Bryan,


W/all the breeders in a large communal cage, are U concerned w/sires of which litters???

What's your ratio in that one picture? I'm getting to the point where the First Home cages don't work any more, and I need grow out tubs, but our garage is too cold. I like your latest design and am VERY interested on how it works for you.

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I am growing right now. As far as keeping track of sires, I will be organizing them soon in order to do so. I plan on having 3 large colonies, and when bringing in new females I will cross colonies to ensure I don't imbreed, as well as adding several new studs from outside my lines.

1 to 10 ratio. I used to do 1 to 6 up to 1 to 8, but decided to up it a little bit... This is what the other two large breeders in my area do and I decided to give it a shot. If not I will toss in another rat and bring it back to 1 to 8 (this has worked almost too well ;), but based on their endowment that shouldnt be surprising : )

Another idea for the bottom. My friend used wire for the bottoms of his growing up racks. Than had a metal shop make large metal pans like for a rabbit hutch. Fills that with shavings and it is set. The rats don't seem to mind the wire.

Also how big are those tubs you were using the look really large. Thanks todd

Looks good, let me know how that works out for you. I might be interested in making some grow-out tubs like those. The only thing I would be worried about in those are the melamine bottoms.

How is your auto-watering system working out for you? Any problems with it yet?


:rockon:

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Originally Posted by Wild Bill

Looks good, let me know how that works out for you. I might be interested in making some grow-out tubs like those. The only thing I would be worried about in those are the melamine bottoms.

How is your auto-watering system working out for you? Any problems with it yet?


:rockon:

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Nope none. like 3 or 4 leaks but those were my fault for not cleaning the hoses. No floods.

I built it so that I could pull out the rats, take out 12 screws, remove melamine, put new melamine in ($4), and screw it back together. But we will see how durable it is after a few weeks - months.

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Originally Posted by smilin-buddha

Another idea for the bottom. My friend used wire for the bottoms of his growing up racks. Than had a metal shop make large metal pans like for a rabbit hutch. Fills that with shavings and it is set. The rats don't seem to mind the wire.

Also how big are those tubs you were using the look really large. Thanks todd

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the big tubs are ~ 2'x3'

Wire is an option but it gets NASTY when rats poop on it and it gets stuck, hard to clean, and vacuuming wouldnt work, and with 1/2" screen not everythign will fall through, and you dont want them on their feet on wire the whole time.

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Originally Posted by SnakeySnakeSnake

Nope none. like 3 or 4 leaks but those were my fault for not cleaning the hoses. No floods.

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Leaks from not cleaning hoses? Could you explain? I am getting ready to do my whole mouse room, any recommendations? Is there better or bad valves to use? Is the clear tubing working well? Do you have to clean the tubing often? Etc.

:rockon:

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Originally Posted by Wild Bill

Leaks from not cleaning hoses? Could you explain? I am getting ready to do my whole mouse room, any recommendations? Is there better or bad valves to use? Is the clear tubing working well? Do you have to clean the tubing often? Etc.

:rockon:

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My water isnt the best, a little bit of scum builds up on the inside of the hoses after a few months. When I see it buid up I clean the hoses out. Ive let one group of hoses go for a while because I was busy, and eventually a piece of scum blocked a few closed.

As far as blocking open, Im not 100% sure the cause of those, but cleaning the valves an tubes helped. I use edstrom variflow valves.


Id say depending on rate of buildup, cleaning once every 2 months is normal for me. With black tubes the light might not let some stuff grow? (not that Ive noticed a lot of growth) but then you cant see when stuff needs cleaned.

Ive used both clear tube and now black tube on my latest one (only because I was out of clear tube).

I'd watch using that wire mesh style floor for rats. It works okay for other creatures but rats have very different feet with little protection. They tend to get their feet caught in that kind of wire flooring and when playing around, can break a leg or a foot. Also the wire can be very rough and then they walk through feces and you can end up with rats with bumblefoot.

By the way Bryan, nice avatar. LOL!!! Is that what happens after you spend half the day cleaning out tubing??? :8:

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

I'd watch using that wire mesh style floor for rats. It works okay for other creatures but rats have very different feet with little protection. They tend to get their feet caught in that kind of wire flooring and when playing around, can break a leg or a foot. Also the wire can be very rough and then they walk through feces and you can end up with rats with bumblefoot.

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I believe he used melamine for the flooring in those cages.:)

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Originally Posted by JBallPython

I believe he used melamine for the flooring in those cages.:)

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I think they were referring to the post below from earlier in the thread. ;)

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Originally Posted by smilin-buddha

Another idea for the bottom. My friend used wire for the bottoms of his growing up racks. Than had a metal shop make large metal pans like for a rabbit hutch. Fills that with shavings and it is set. The rats don't seem to mind the wire.

Also how big are those tubs you were using the look really large. Thanks todd

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I am not sure of that I have just seen it work at my buddies rat room. I have never tried it. I use tubs, but my production is alot smaller than the amount you are talking about. I think alot of the labs use a similar wire bottom in their cages with pans below. Was just an idea. I like the other 4 tub stack. I have a month off and I can see me doing soemthing like that. Todd

yeha the mel. is the only worrie about that. And the auto water too. But thats a given to be worried about...lol.Either way it looks veyr very good!!!! I will be lookign at yourdesiine for ideas!

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Originally Posted by Wild Bill

I think they were referring to the post below from earlier in the thread. ;)

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Ah, i see! Thanks Bill.:P

-Jason

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Originally Posted by Wild Bill

By the way Bryan, nice avatar. LOL!!! Is that what happens after you spend half the day cleaning out tubing??? :8:

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Half the day cleaning out tubing, other half burning air holes in tubs for the snakes.

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Originally Posted by SnakeySnakeSnake

My water isnt the best, a little bit of scum builds up on the inside of the hoses after a few months. When I see it buid up I clean the hoses out. Ive let one group of hoses go for a while because I was busy, and eventually a piece of scum blocked a few closed.

As far as blocking open, Im not 100% sure the cause of those, but cleaning the valves an tubes helped. I use edstrom variflow valves.


Id say depending on rate of buildup, cleaning once every 2 months is normal for me. With black tubes the light might not let some stuff grow? (not that Ive noticed a lot of growth) but then you cant see when stuff needs cleaned.

Ive used both clear tube and now black tube on my latest one (only because I was out of clear tube).

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How exactly do you clean that tubing? High pressure flush? I'm picturing a really looong bottle brush, but somehow I think thats wrong!?!?

Steve

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Originally Posted by SnakeySnakeSnake

Half the day cleaning out tubing, other half burning air holes in tubs for the snakes.

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Ventilate...ventilate...ventilate LOL (or watch those brain cells melt from those ever so lovely plastic fumes!)
I bin makin tubs all da day long...whooohooooweeeeeee! http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e2...iley/Goofy.gif

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Originally Posted by hoo-t

How exactly do you clean that tubing? High pressure flush? I'm picturing a really looong bottle brush, but somehow I think thats wrong!?!?

Steve

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Attachment that fits onto a water hose, disconnect all the tub stuff, unplug one valve at a time and let it shoot water out fast. repeat


if it is so bad that it doesnt work, you can always just replace tubing. For the cost it isnt a big deal.

agselect.com is a great place to get the watering supplies. I had mine in a couple days. The Edstrom Variflow valves are super high quality. As far as floods, it is always a danger. I use a small bucket because I would rather top it off every other day than risk a flood. I'll post up the new rack tonight. I originally installed the watering down the back but after realizing that I had to pull the sipper free from the wire to pull out the tub and seeing how Charlie's rack was done, I moved the watering to the front. Now all is well and the rats are happy!

Hey Bryan, do the rats throw alot of bedding out of the sides of that rack?

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Originally Posted by Wild Bill

Hey Bryan, do the rats throw alot of bedding out of the sides of that rack?

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I hate when they do that. :mad:

-adam

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Originally Posted by Wild Bill

Hey Bryan, do the rats throw alot of bedding out of the sides of that rack?

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Depends on the rats :) Some do some dont. I havnt had a catastrophic amount yet. From my experience it is mostly nesting mothers that do this, and i pull them out before they start nesting.

I have mothers in my maternity racks that literally push the bedding up the side 6 or 8 inches, and then force it through the wire mesh, and out the side if there is enough of a gap :)

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Originally Posted by SnakeySnakeSnake

I have mothers in my maternity racks that literally push the bedding up the side 6 or 8 inches, and then force it through the wire mesh, and out the side if there is enough of a gap :)

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Don't ya just hate cleaning the tracks on the lower levels? :(

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Don't ya just hate cleaning the tracks on the lower levels? :(

-adam

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Thats what a good shop-vac is for. ;) I have to shop-vac the rodent room once a week to clean up after them, thats why my rat racks are on wheels and the mice racks are far enough off the floor to vacuum underneath. I usually vacuum the racks as I pull out and clean the tubs. Not to mention having to clean everything in the room from the small coating of "sawdust" on everything. Mice are the worst for chewing bedding and throwing it out of their tubs. :mad:

Yup, my entire setup is mobile as well. Allows me to clean better and to move things around as i add to my collection of racks..

With a shop vac attachment and a putty scraper taped underneath that to scrape the bottom/break up packed bedding, I think it took 5 mins to clean and refill that entire rack.

The rats run to one side, shop vac one side clean, dump in new bedding. switch sides, repeat, move to bottom section.

Amazing how fast this went. Not scratches or marks on the melamine yet.

Amount of bedding pushed out on each side - negligible, enough to make a small mess, but two swipes of a shop vac and its gone. I would consider putting a 1x2 board along each side to make it less likely/limit the amount they push out, but so far it isnt an issue.

good looking cage but i don't you can have good results with breeding on ths cages.
this lucky reptile cages i use i best and i have excellent result on rat and mice breeding. am the leader on my country on rodent breeding.
this is my rodent room with my cages.
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/2...roomgt5.th.jpg

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Originally Posted by Ozone

good looking cage but i don't you can have good results with breeding on ths cages.
this lucky reptile cages i use i best and i have excellent result on rat and mice breeding. am the leader on my country on rodent breeding.
this is my rodent room with my cages.

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I know several people in my area who use large breeder enclosures, though not exactly like this.

How many rats do you produce a month, interesting to hear of someone who is their countries leading producer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozone

good looking cage but i don't you can have good results with breeding on ths cages.
this lucky reptile cages i use i best and i have excellent result on rat and mice breeding. am the leader on my country on rodent breeding.
this is my rodent room with my cages.
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/2...roomgt5.th.jpg

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Are you also your countries leader in ball python breeding?
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...183#post446183

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Originally Posted by Wild Bill

Are you also your countries leader in ball python breeding?
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...183#post446183

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Im just waiting for him to post the pictures of his other rat rooms, because if that is his only room, Im not impressed ;)

/yikes I just read that thread 700 gram female!:O :mad: :(

i have on evrey rat cage 2.8 when mating and 2.8 on mice. also i have some cages with 1.5 or 4.16 and i have good results 220-290 on rats and 260-300mice. when my females are gravid i remove the males from the cages beacuse some time they their babies.

i have 25 cages with rats and 25 for mice.

i haven't any other room.

yes my 700gramm female ate 1 month stock of my mice :P :P :P :P

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozone

i have on evrey rat cage 2.8 when mating and 2.8 on mice. also i have some cages with 1.5 or 4.16 and i have good results 220-290 on rats and 260-300mice. when my females are gravid i remove the males from the cages beacuse some time they their babies.

i have 25 cages with rats and 25 for mice.

i haven't any other room.

yes my 700gramm female ate 1 month stock of my mice :P :P :P :P

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Why do you have 2.8 rats for breeding? Ive never had a problem with 1.8 , but I guess if you are introducing new male breeders 2 is safer than sorry (Ive definitely done that before)

edit: Where do you move all your males to when the females are pregnant? You keep leaving a few words out so I am reading into a few things, you normally have a problem with male rats eating the babies? or is that just the mice?

there are many tips on rat breeding some people suggest 1.3 , 1.5 , 2.8 . some males can't do together and fight all the time. in cages with 2 male i have better results.

also in my mice colonies some females are fighting.