Female Health

I have a friend that doesn't want his female ball python anymore and is willing to give it to me. She could be of use, I want to start an albino project. The thing is this snake hasn't always been taken care of very well. She was initially given to him by a friend that had a very bad set up, it was much colder in there than it should've been (no heater, just a lamp) I'm not sure how much the cage was cleaned, and had probably gone long stretches without food. She is in pretty good shape now, eating and everything. I'm just curious how this could affect breeding. He is now looking at just giving her away to a local reptile store, otherwise I can have it. What do you think?

I'd say go for it. but you may want to quarantine her for at least 3 months...which could put your breeding project off till next year.

Yea, I was kind of planning on that anyways. I actually have another female that is probably ready and a male. But I don't have an incubator yet, so I'd probably be waiting anyways.

yeh well wait till you think you're ready :)

how big is your other girl?

Ya know, I'm not even sure. I don't own a scale, but she probably close to 3ft. I believe this to be her third winter, but she went through a stretch not long after I got her a couple of years ago when she wasn't eating much, so I might've lost some valuable growing time. I should go get her weighed.

My other male is a little under sized for his age too, he was a twin and was very small when he was born. I believe he is around 2 years old.

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Originally Posted by Griggs2121

I have a friend that doesn't want his female ball python anymore and is willing to give it to me. She could be of use, I want to start an albino project. The thing is this snake hasn't always been taken care of very well. She was initially given to him by a friend that had a very bad set up, it was much colder in there than it should've been (no heater, just a lamp) I'm not sure how much the cage was cleaned, and had probably gone long stretches without food. She is in pretty good shape now, eating and everything. I'm just curious how this could affect breeding. He is now looking at just giving her away to a local reptile store, otherwise I can have it. What do you think?

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Since you know she was not properly cared for or properly fed ,i would let him give her to the pet store.The reason i say this is simple.By her not being cared for and fed properly she could be stunted(unable to reach proper size) or even unable to breed all together.Of course its your choice,and this is my opinion if i was in that situation.

yeah there are some things you will need to know. If you're not sure about her weight, then it may be wise to hold off.

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Originally Posted by joepythons

The reason i say this is simple.By her not being cared for and fed properly she could be stunted(unable to reach proper size) or even unable to breed all together.

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Not true ... If put back on a proper feeding schedule, she'll eventually catch up ... it might take a bit, but if she's otherwise healthy there's no reason to believe that she won't make a great breeder one day.

-adam

Thanks everyone. I just went to the pet store and put them all on scales, this wasn't a digital scale, so who knows how close it is.

My male (possible albino het) is 290g, The two females were 340 and 400 respectivley. I was shocked, I sort of want a second opinion on a different scale. The 400g female is the one that I am probably adopting. I was also told that maybe they're a little small because of food, so I stepped up to the jumbo mice (quite a bit larger than what they've been getting) and maybe small rats in the near future.

Looks like its next season for sure =)

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Not true ... If put back on a proper feeding schedule, she'll eventually catch up ... it might take a bit, but if she's otherwise healthy there's no reason to believe that she won't make a great breeder one day.

-adam

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I know its a possibility and thats why i said could be stunted

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Originally Posted by joepythons

I know its a possibility and thats why i said could be stunted

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Not according to anything that I've ever read on reptillian physiology. What's your source?

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Not according to anything that I've ever read on reptillian physiology. What's your source?

-adam

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My source is my experiances in my begginings of buying poorly fed ball pythons that never reached half there normal sizes.Of course they ate everything i placed in there cages,just never grew and i was told it was from them not being properly fed before i bought them.In other words they were stunted.Once again thats why i stated if it was me i would pass on that snake.Now back to you Adam:rofl: :rofl:

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Originally Posted by joepythons

My source is my experiances in my begginings of buying poorly fed ball pythons that never reached half there normal sizes.Of course they ate everything i placed in there cages,just never grew and i was told it was from them not being properly fed before i bought them.In other words they were stunted.Once again thats why i stated if it was me i would pass on that snake.Now back to you Adam:rofl: :rofl:

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Do you still have them today? How long did you give them before you postulated your theory?

If they were given a sufficient amount of time to feed and grow and they did not, it sounds to me like there was something else wrong ... husbandry maybe? ... internal parasites perhaps ... It's not physiologically possible for a ball pythons growth to be "stunted" like the growth of mammals can be. The mechanism for growth in a ball python is completely different.

Eventually, an underfed animal will attain it's predetermined size.

And the "back to you Adam" really wasn't necessary ... if you'd rather not have this discussion, that's fine ... no need to be a ricky about it.

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Do you still have them today? How long did you give them before you postulated your theory?

If they were given a sufficient amount of time to feed and grow and they did not, it sounds to me like there was something else wrong ... husbandry maybe? ... internal parasites perhaps ... It's not physiologically possible for a ball pythons growth to be "stunted" like the growth of mammals can be. The mechanism for growth in a ball python is completely different.

Eventually, an underfed animal will attain it's predetermined size.

And the "back to you Adam" really wasn't necessary ... if you'd rather not have this discussion, that's fine ... no need to be a ricky about it.

-adam

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I was joking geee:D .I had one for a little over a year and he eventually died.The other lasted 2yrs and then died.They were both cleared by my vet of no bugs or the such and my setups and temps were at the same levels i use today.

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Originally Posted by joepythons

I had one for a little over a year and he eventually died.The other lasted 2yrs and then died.

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Joe, I've got bad news for you ... they weren't "stunted", they were dying.

Had they survived and thrived, they would have grown to their genetically predetermined size.

-adam

If I had a really big femle and bred her to a male would the babies be big like would they grow up to be big like the mom?


-Andre

I'm going to go ahead and second the thing about "stunting" just not being possible with ball pythons....

I acquired an '04 female this past january that weighed in at 600 grams. She has more than doubled her weight since, tipping the scale at 1400 grams currently.

Same goes with many other species of reptiles. I used to work at a pet store that often took in animals in bad shape...with proper TLC and no other preexisting conditions, they bounce back and grow to normal adult size.

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I acquired an '04 female this past january that weighed in at 600 grams. She has more than doubled her weight since, tipping the scale at 1400 grams currently.

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I would assume the females are undersized. I don't know about the one I'm adopting, but I believe the other is an '04. What were you feeding your 600 gram female that she doubled her weight so fast?

edit:
Yes, my 340 gram female was born 05/04

I can only speak from our experience with two female BP's. Saoirse came in as a WC adult extremely thin at only 690 grams. Even though she subsequently fasted that first winter with us for 5 long months, she's very steadily gaining weight and in fact could likely breed this year though we've decided to hold her back and give her another season just to be on the safe side. Kyna came to us at 18 months having been continually underfed her whole life. She was just an inch longer and the same weight as our 8 month old female BP we also had at that time. We too believed at that time that she would likely be somehow "stunted". Not so - with proper feeding and care she's growen in leaps and bounds and will be put with our male this year in hopes of a clutch. Both these females show every indication of becoming nice large females that will in no way show any long term ill effects of their previous poor care.

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Originally Posted by Griggs2121

I would assume the females are undersized. I don't know about the one I'm adopting, but I believe the other is an '04. What were you feeding your 600 gram female that she doubled her weight so fast?

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1-2 small small rats a week!

wow. I can't believe I'm just thinking of this now... I guess I've just been in the "I've got small snakes" mode too long. I guess I'll let them eat up the rest of my jumbo mice and then make the switch to small rats.

Lazy was way under fed (over a year with out food) when I got him i thought he was stunted as well. 4 years old 2 + feet and 120+ gr. almost a year later he is 4 feet and 1000 gr. it was a hard start but he made it. :)
I too dont agree with stunting groth in snakes. I have come to learn over the time i have been on this forum that wild ball python babies are lucky to get a meal every 2 weeks and adults the same. some even go a year or a little more with out food. and in the wild some are see up to 5 feet or a little more.

They are very hardy animals. I would say feed her for a year or so then think about breeding her. if she had a bad start give her body time to ajust to her new feeding and the amount of food she is getting in one sitting, but dont power feed her, it is not good for them. IMO

I'm not really too sure about the power feeding thing. Is that feeding every few days or something. I'm going to probably get it to where all my snakes are eating one small rat per week.

I just measured my 340g female. According to the snake measure program she is 30.8" 340g kinda light for that length?

Snakes use food for growth... give them food, and they will grow.

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Originally Posted by Griggs2121

I'm not really too sure about the power feeding thing. Is that feeding every few days or something. I'm going to probably get it to where all my snakes are eating one small rat per week.

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Rats, mice, whatever, it really doesn't matter. Its more to do with the weight in food they are consuming. While most of the "mousers" I've seen tend to be less robust than rat eaters of similar age, eating multiple mice in one sitting is the same thing as say, 1 small rat.

Feeding multiple smaller meals every 7 days has worked very well for me so far and I have seen very nice growth on my younger snakes as well as my 2-3 y/o females.

Part of our feeding live decision is offering smaller prey items weekly. Not even our biggest female at over 2,300 grams and 4 plus feet in length ever sees anything bigger than a live small rat. Sure she might want two every feeding day and that's just fine. If she feels like one, that's fine too. They seem very aggressive with feeding, don't have large lumps after they eat and are in great shape on this schedule of weekly feeds. Some of our younger BP's might eat 2 fuzzy rats or 1 pup, some of our yearlings eat one or two big pups or wean rats...some of them eat the equivalent volume in multiple adult mice. It seems as long as they get sufficient food for healthy growth offered on a regular basis, they'll do quite fine whether it's mice or rats they prefer. No need to offer more than they need or more often than they need to eat.

hey adam


is there anyway that a ball pythons genetically predetermined size can be stunted? or is it not possible?

are all snakes predetermined to grow a certain size?

and if the right feeding conditions are not being met and the snake is small for his age, he will grow to his genetically predetermined size once the proper conditions are met? right?

I know we are getting off topic of the orginal post, but I've been feeding one adult mouse per week. I'm planning to offer 2 mice each, and see if they'll take. If they do take the 2nd, I feel like thats a lot of food for them, but this isn't over feeding eh?