My two Het pieds arrived today...but...

Hi everyone!

My two additional het pieds arrived today! I arrived at home and the snakes were alive and well! I placed them in a divided tub. And they are adjusting nicely!

However, I have a "small" problem! Take a minute and read the ad on kingsnake.com (http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=32&de=453022). I nego. a decent price for both snakes! I sent Shane Kinney an email before purchasing and asked him the weights of the snakes. Shane responded with 150-200g. Shane also stated the DOB 7/15/06. WELL....I got my scale out to measure my new snakes! One was spot on at exactly 200g! Perfect! The other snake was only 75g. hmmmmm..... I am not sure that 75g is necessarily bad for a 3 month old BP, but I am more concerned that he didnt tell me the truth on the weight of the BP before purchase. I am also concerned now of what else he didnt tell the truth about. Here was his response....

Hi Ed,

Thanks for the follow up and I'm glad they arrived fine. I did write their DOB wrong- it is 7/15/06 and I apologize for being a under on gram guesstimate on the one female(I must have been looking at the bigger one when I guessed), but they are definitely the right ones and I guarantee their genetics. The bigger girl has been feeding more aggressively lately, nailing large mice, while the smaller girl needs a hide and likes small mice.

Thanks, Shane

Anyway....i am venting....and hope that these are healthy snakes....

Congrats on the new snakes!

Hopefully the smaller one doesn't have any problems eating and will grow up big and strong. :)

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Originally Posted by PipeDADDY

Hi everyone!

My two additional het pieds arrived today! I arrived at home and the snakes were alive and well! I placed them in a divided tub. And they are adjusting nicely!

However, I have a "small" problem! Take a minute and read the ad on kingsnake.com (http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=32&de=453022). I nego. a decent price for both snakes! I sent Shane Kinney an email before purchasing and asked him the weights of the snakes. Shane responded with 150-200g. Shane also stated the DOB 7/15/06. WELL....I got my scale out to measure my new snakes! One was spot on at exactly 200g! Perfect! The other snake was only 75g. hmmmmm..... I am not sure that 75g is necessarily bad for a 3 month old BP, but I am more concerned that he didnt tell me the truth on the weight of the BP before purchase. I am also concerned now of what else he didnt tell the truth about. Here was his response....

Hi Ed,

Thanks for the follow up and I'm glad they arrived fine. I did write their DOB wrong- it is 7/15/06 and I apologize for being a under on gram guesstimate on the one female(I must have been looking at the bigger one when I guessed), but they are definitely the right ones and I guarantee their genetics. The bigger girl has been feeding more aggressively lately, nailing large mice, while the smaller girl needs a hide and likes small mice.

Thanks, Shane

Anyway....i am venting....and hope that these are healthy snakes....

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I am not saying he lied or anything here.One of my baby ball pythons this year weighed 60grams right out of the egg.Since he admitted he might have looked at the wrong snake and inturn guessed the incorrect weight.I see nothing to be overly concerned here,unless that smaller female never starts eating for you.You did get the genetic gaurantees correct?

that is the oldest story in the book. i have bought new boas that were said to be 4ft then some how durring shipping they drop a hole foot. then when you confront them they just say sorry. and she will grow in no time. it makes me sick to see this. all i have to say is live and learn. on a pluss side those are real lookers you have there.

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Originally Posted by BALLISTIC BOAS

all i have to say is live and learn. on a pluss side those are real lookers you have there.

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Thanks....Here is to the future!:gj:

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You did get the genetic gaurantees correct?

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For what it is worth....He said he does.

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some how durring shipping they drop a hole foot

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That stinks! I guess mine lost 50% of his body weight during shipping....darn DHL/UPS/Fedex....they are always losing stuff:P

This thread needs some of your PIED pics!! You have yet to show them. Stop hiding!https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil.../5/useless.gif

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Originally Posted by stangs13

This thread needs some of your PIED pics!! You have yet to show them. Stop hiding!https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil.../5/useless.gif

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hehehehe...did you check out the link above?

yes I did but, i dotn se any PIEDS!

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Originally Posted by PipeDADDY

My two additional het pieds arrived today! ....

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:D :D :D

Anyway back to the thread....if this girl starts eating regularly, she should "catch up" on weight at some point. Be a breeder, etc. Just may take an extra season to get there....?

Awhile back I'd inquired about a few of the PH Genetic stripe girls he had available and though I decided to pursue other things first he seemed professional and knowlegable.

Lucky buy on those girls, good luck with them!

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Originally Posted by stangs13

yes I did but, i dotn se any PIEDS!

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scroll down. there is a pied and a normal

http://photos.imageevent.com/shaneki...e/DSC00579.JPG

I believe she is asking for NEW pictures of YOUR two het girls, not the ad pictures.

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Originally Posted by PipeDADDY

Thanks....Here is to the future!:gj:


For what it is worth....He said he does.


That stinks! I guess mine lost 50% of his body weight during shipping....darn DHL/UPS/Fedex....they are always losing stuff:P

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Wow hold the presses! When i asked if you got the genetic guarentees, i meant papers with each snakes pic and his guarentee in writing that they are true het pieds.If all he gave you was a word of mouth over the phone gaurentee i do not like this!:mad: For the record i am not saying he jacked you and they are not true hets.I am just concerned here. If he did send you the genetic papers please let me know ok.Until i hear from you i will remain concerned here.

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Originally Posted by joepythons

Wow hold the presses! When i asked if you got the genetic guarentees, i meant papers with each snakes pic and his guarentee in writing that they are true het pieds.If all he gave you was a word of mouth over the phone gaurentee i do not like this!:mad: For the record i am not saying he jacked you and they are not true hets.I am just concerned here. If he did send you the genetic papers please let me know ok.Until i hear from you i will remain concerned here.

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Hehehehe...nope....no papers. I have the ad and emails that state they are 100% het pied.

I did receive a response from Shane on the size issue. Seems like a respectable response.....anyone heard/dealt with Shane Kinney? Keep in mind I bought two snakes. So if he refunded half my money below, would be a full refund on one snake.

Thoughts?

Here is his email response:

Hi Edward,

She is not a runt and they were both roughly the same size at hatching. I did not weigh them at hatching, but they were not runts, nor were they huge hatchlings either. The bigger female just recently took off this past month when she started aggresively feeding on larger mice. I had a couple of pastel females start at about the same size and growth rate, that then just kicked in and started feeding on larger rodents and grew over 100g in a month.

Anyway, with that being said, I want you to be happy and make it right if you are not. We can do a few things and I'm open to suggestions. You can keep her and feed her up and if she doesn't do well for whatever reason, you can send her back. You can ship her back now and I'll feed her up to 150-200g and send her back to you or you can ship her back and I'll just refund half your $$. Either way let me know what you would like to do.

Thanks, Shane

The only way to see if they are truly hets is to prove em out. That can be a bit hard to do because even though they are 100% hets, you don't have any guarantee to produce pieds.

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Originally Posted by PipeDADDY

Hehehehe...nope....no papers. I have the ad and emails that state they are 100% het pied.

I did receive a response from Shane on the size issue. Seems like a respectable response.....anyone heard/dealt with Shane Kinney? Keep in mind I bought two snakes. So if he refunded half my money below, would be a full refund on one snake.

Thoughts?

Here is his email response:

Hi Edward,

She is not a runt and they were both roughly the same size at hatching. I did not weigh them at hatching, but they were not runts, nor were they huge hatchlings either. The bigger female just recently took off this past month when she started aggresively feeding on larger mice. I had a couple of pastel females start at about the same size and growth rate, that then just kicked in and started feeding on larger rodents and grew over 100g in a month.

Anyway, with that being said, I want you to be happy and make it right if you are not. We can do a few things and I'm open to suggestions. You can keep her and feed her up and if she doesn't do well for whatever reason, you can send her back. You can ship her back now and I'll feed her up to 150-200g and send her back to you or you can ship her back and I'll just refund half your $$. Either way let me know what you would like to do.

Thanks, Shane

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Hmmm he keeps mentioning that first she is not a runt then they are not runts:confused: .Have you done a search on him on faunaclassifieds? I have never heard of him until now.I do find it odd he does not weigh them after they hatch.I give every baby(even corns) a full look over and weights as soon as they leave there egg shells.The not getting genetic gaurentee paper work really worries me.Let us know what you decide on and how things go if you keep them both.

He has one good guy post on Fauna.

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Originally Posted by joepythons

Hmmm he keeps mentioning that first she is not a runt then they are not runts:confused: .Have you done a search on him on faunaclassifieds? I have never heard of him until now.I do find it odd he does not weigh them after they hatch.I give every baby(even corns) a full look over and weights as soon as they leave there egg shells.The not getting genetic gaurentee paper work really worries me.Let us know what you decide on and how things go if you keep them both.

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I didn't do much research on him:stupidme: . I saw that he has been registered on kingsnake since 2002-08-25. Guess that wasn't enough. Perhaps I will go check out Fauna Classifieds.

The other snake is in really good shape and active. I bet he would eat tonight if I fed him. So, I have good things to say about one of the snakes. The small size and not being told the complete truth on the other snake is what concerns me.

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Originally Posted by PipeDADDY

I didn't do much research on him:stupidme: . I saw that he has been registered on kingsnake since 2002-08-25. Guess that wasn't enough. Perhaps I will go check out Fauna Classifieds.

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Well i just poped over to fauna and the only direct post was someone asking about Shane Kinney and someone replied he was ok.It was back in 2003 though and nothing recent.I remember seeing that ad on kingsnake and it made me wonder.

looks like he is selling his collection of BPs!

http://imageevent.com/shanekinneyreptiles/

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Originally Posted by joepythons

Hmmm he keeps mentioning that first she is not a runt then they are not runts:confused: .

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mmmmm banana runts... :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:

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Originally Posted by PipeDADDY

looks like he is selling his collection of BPs!

http://imageevent.com/shanekinneyreptiles/

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Now that really makes me worried about you not getting the guarentees of the genetics on paper with pics of each snake.Not trying to start any trouble but can you ask him why he did not give you genetic papers on them? If he is getting out of snakes totaly word of mouth promises do not mean squat down the road.

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Originally Posted by nathanledet

mmmmm banana runts... :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:

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Nate you are a nut :rolleye2: :8: .

I have to agree with Joe here. Not assuming anything about the breeder you bought from but just a general comment here that when buying hets one needs to both research extensively on the breeder you are going with and insist on proper paperwork (including a clear photo) properly identifying both your het snake and the snakes and breeder that produced it. When we purchased our 100% het albino from Adam at 8Ball the paperwork included was a perfect as the snake it represented. It has to be said, however, that paperwork is only as good as the person who produced it so as always we need to make sure we are buying from upstanding people who great reputations especially when it comes to hets.

My question is did he say they were from the same cluch

Seems to me that a guy that has done that much breeding and has that many breeder snakes would provide genetic papers and weigh them at hatch. Not trying to throw a wet blanket on your fire here but just has the taste of something funny. Might be fine more than likely is no problem but in the fature genetic papers and genetic id i.e photo of het and weight at birth is a real warm feeling.

I think the safe bet is to only buy your hets from people you can confirm as reputable. Hell, Chris Johnson had tons of positive feedback and look how that turned out. I hope everything works out for the best! There are creeps all over the reptile industry but also a ton of good guys/girls.

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

Seems to me that a guy that has done that much breeding and has that many breeder snakes would provide genetic papers and weigh them at hatch. Not trying to throw a wet blanket on your fire here but just has the taste of something funny. Might be fine more than likely is no problem but in the fature genetic papers and genetic id i.e photo of het and weight at birth is a real warm feeling.

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This was my thoughts also.One word he used a couple times in his response posted a few posts back is RUNT.When i read that a red flag just popped up,to add to the concern he only has 1 positive comment of fauna from 2003.I wonder what has been going on the last 3 seasons:confused: .

See to my mind runt denotes a member of the same hatch that is dramiticly smaller and weaker than its brothers and sisters. My next question posed to Pipe Daddy is this. Did he provide feeding cards? Cause a hatchling thats brothers and sisters are much bigger than it tells me its got a medical problem or it not eating. just my two cents

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

See to my mind runt denotes a member of the same hatch that is dramiticly smaller and weaker than its brothers and sisters. My next question posed to Pipe Daddy is this. Did he provide feeding cards cause a hatchling thats brothers and sisters are much bigger than it tells me its god a medical problem or it not eating. just my two cents

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Now your description of a runt is not always true.For instance one of the 8 ball pythons that hatched this year by me was significantly smaller then the other 7 clutch mates.Well by the time i sold her she was actually bigger then the others:eek: .I was concerned about her from the beggining and even thought of putting her down to save her from starving to death.So basicly refering to something as a "runt" does not always mean its sickly.

No. see thats what I think of when I think "Runt".

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

No. see thats what I think of when I think "Runt".

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O ok:)

That is one of the reasons I hate buying reptiles online, they describe one thing and you get another, (Well not everybody, there are some honest people) then once you have it in your hands and its paid off they say they are sorry, I think that is just not right. You are paying a good amount of cash for them, but even if it was cheaper. They also act dumb as if they did not know what they where selling and describing.:mad: Good luck with your bp. :D

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Originally Posted by novato

That is one of the reasons I hate buying reptiles online, they describe one thing and you get another, then once you have it in your hands and its paid off they say they are sorry, I think that is just not right. You are paying a good amount of cash for them, but even if it was cheaper. They also act dumb as if they did not know what they where selling and describing.:mad: Good luck with your bp. :D

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Not everyone does that. Its all a matter of finding reputable breeders.

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Originally Posted by jglass38

Not everyone does that. Its all a matter of finding reputable breeders.

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Very true, I corrected my statement. Sorry!!! But one bad transaction makes you insecure about buying from other breeders, even if they are reputable.:(

No im not asking for new pictures of his het pieds. Im actualy asjking for pictures of the actual HOMO pieds he has....

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Originally Posted by novato

Very true, I corrected my statement. Sorry!!! But one bad transaction makes you insecure about buying from other breeders, even if they are reputable.:(

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i think you could order from any of the breeders who frequent this site... adam, jamie just to name two (i'm sick don't make me try to think of more)... and you would get what you paid for and agreed to. so many people here have purchased from them and been very happy with their purchases... so that says something! https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...4/7/dance2.gif

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Originally Posted by stangs13

No im not asking for new pictures of his het pieds. Im actualy asjking for pictures of the actual HOMO pieds he has....

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What makes you think he has a homozygous Pied?

Additional InformationGroup Memberships

Location:
DFW, TX Interests:
Harley Occupation:
Consultant My Collection:
2.3 Piebald

See it says right there!!! And he said along time ago.

Not to seem like I'm taking sides here but everyone is talking like this guy is 100% guilty of selling sick normals as hets.
Heaven forbid he wants to sell his collection, he MUST be a scammer now!

To the buyer, did you get a reciept for these two? What was written on it?

I know of a few very good smaller breeders that don't do the whole 'photo ID guarantee' but do write 100% het (insert morph) on the reciept and sign it.

I've been reading along this thread from the beginning and seeing the lynch mob mentality coming out is rather sad. Yes, TSE had a good reputation until they screwed many people. But you know, that could end up being ANY breeder if they do desired.
Going on about how you should only buy from the 'big breeders' is rather short sighted isn't it? What about when you produce hets? Do you want people to think "Oh wow, they MUST be a scammer because they don't have a huge facility and hundreds of snakes".

If the buyer truely feels he's been scammed then he should take the appropriate steps. But I think we should put away the pitchforks and shovels for now.

Edited to add: The BOI is free now so anyone could bump that inquiry thread on him up to see if there has been any newer happy customers.
We all know how prompt people are to post negatives and always forget to post the positives.

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Originally Posted by Entropy

Not to seem like I'm taking sides here but everyone is talking like this guy is 100% guilty of selling sick normals as hets.
Heaven forbid he wants to sell his collection, he MUST be a scammer now!

To the buyer, did you get a reciept for these two? What was written on it?

I know of a few very good smaller breeders that don't do the whole 'photo ID guarantee' but do write 100% het (insert morph) on the reciept and sign it.

I've been reading along this thread from the beginning and seeing the lynch mob mentality coming out is rather sad. Yes, TSE had a good reputation until they screwed many people. But you know, that could end up being ANY breeder if they do desired.
Going on about how you should only buy from the 'big breeders' is rather short sighted isn't it? What about when you produce hets? Do you want people to think "Oh wow, they MUST be a scammer because they don't have a huge facility and hundreds of snakes".

If the buyer truely feels he's been scammed then he should take the appropriate steps. But I think we should put away the pitchforks and shovels for now.

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Have you been reading the same thread as I have? Who ever said only buy from big breeders? I said, know who you are buying from.

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Originally Posted by Entropy

...

Going on about how you should only buy from the 'big breeders' is rather short sighted isn't it? What about when you produce hets? Do you want people to think "Oh wow, they MUST be a scammer because they don't have a huge facility and hundreds of snakes".
...

We all know how prompt people are to post negatives and always forget to post the positives.

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:clap:

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Originally Posted by JLC

:clap:

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What was the clapping for? The post which contained just about zero fact?

Jamie, don't take everything so personally, it's bad for bloodpressure.

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Originally Posted by Entropy

Jamie, don't take everything so personally, it's bad for bloodpressure.

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I am not taking anything personally. I am just stating that you pontificated with nothing to back it up. I just looked back through the thread and I don't see where anyone said to only buy from big breeders or that this guy was definitely scammed.

Mr. Harley dude you've been on Bp.net for a month and you havn't posted pic's of your prized possesion's??? What's up with that??? I saw this guy's collection that's up for sale awesome Bp's , that said I also would of been pist if he misrepresented the size of one of the ball's I was purchasing. Now reading his e-mail which he sent to you I'd send him the small one and get the money back .One more thing I'd ask for a guarantee on the one you would probably be staying with.

Inference. Not everything has to be spelled out. I'm not attempting to butt heads with you Jamie, I posted my opinions and that's it. Take it how you want.

Can't we all just get along!!!!!LoL

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Originally Posted by Entropy

Inference. Not everything has to be spelled out. I'm not attempting to butt heads with you Jamie, I posted my opinions and that's it. Take it how you want.

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Ahhh..You read minds! Gotcha..Its cool, I have a hard head and normally win the headbutt contests anyway :)

I just don't think anyone was saying that people should only buy from big breeders. I think its all about knowing who you are buying from.

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Originally Posted by Entropy

I believe she is asking for NEW pictures of YOUR two het girls, not the ad pictures.

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Sorry to bust up this pitter patter but this is the BEST thing I have seen ALL day :clap:

stangs13=she :8:


PD. Glad to here your runt is eating and on her way :gj: