Feeding Live....

oh wow. i found this picture online of what can happen if you feed live.
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h3...ive_prey_1.jpg

that makes me want to cry. poor little guy!!!!!!

It's definitely unfortunate that things like that happen. Nothing is wrong with feeding live as long as it is done responsibly.

i doubt that was done from "feeding live"

that looks more like "drop it in and forget about it for a few days"

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Originally Posted by nathanledet

i doubt that was done from "feeding live"

that looks more like "drop it in and forget about it for a few days"

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Nate,i was just getting ready to write the same thing:( .

No hun, that is NOT what happens if you responsibly feed live prey to your snake.

What happened to that poor snake is a stupid owner who thought it was fine to leave a hungry rat in the unhungry snake's cage for DAYS, with no food, other than the snake. When you mixa very hungry, big rodent with a small snake that can't hide from it, that is what you get. What else was the rat going to eat?

Rodents should only be left in the snake's cage for 30 minutes, unless you are leaving a hopper mouse or rat pink/fuzzy/crawler in overnight with a shy eater. It is always best to prescent the room by leaving the cage of rodents in the area for 20-30 minutes. This gets them ready to eat so they know what is coming and can prepare themselves.

The majority of Ball Python keepers I know, feed live prey and rarely, if ever, have an incident. I've been feeding live for 3 years and haven't had problems with it. However my snakes look at f/t dead rodents like they are the plague and might catch something.

Yeah, i fed live the first time i fed my snake. nothing bad happened. and yeah, i figured that the idiot person probably had a bigger rat and a shy eater, and left them in there for days. It ticks me off like crazy. That looks so painful.

I'm surprised it didn't die.

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Originally Posted by nathanledet

i doubt that was done from "feeding live"

that looks more like "drop it in and forget about it for a few days"

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Post above beat me to it. Either way a mouse bite/rat bite can be dangerous. Thats why i dont feed live..not to mention it is cheaper and easyer.

i buy live, because it is actually cheaper where i am at, but i bash the first one (if i am feeding that day), and then i freeze the rest.
I just found the pix on google. i dont know if the snake died or not. i would assume that it did though. He might've lived. it looks like he might be blind in that one eye that has the extreeme cuts above it, im not sure though.

That is really sad :( but like said before, someone probably threw a rat in there and left it for a few days.
poor lil snake :(

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Originally Posted by Amy1217

i buy live, because it is actually cheaper where i am at, but i bash the first one (if i am feeding that day), and then i freeze the rest.
I just found the pix on google. i dont know if the snake died or not. i would assume that it did though. He might've lived. it looks like he might be blind in that one eye that has the extreeme cuts above it, im not sure though.

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Yeah, they froze him.

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Originally Posted by stangs13

Yeah, they froze him.

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What?! That's just making it worse! They should've used a CO2 chamber.

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Originally Posted by Amy1217

i bash the first one (if i am feeding that day).

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Meaning you smack there head against something?

i do the pillow case method....Mandy doesn't like hearing *smack*.......*smack*......."ok done"

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Originally Posted by nathanledet

i do the pillow case method....Mandy doesn't like hearing *smack*.......*smack*......."ok done"

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That's really horrible...I'm sorry. I think I just have atleast a tiny amount of respect for the animal that is keeping my snakes alive. Why cant you gas them?

I smack 'em too. i dont have the means to gas them.

I believe they said on that site it was humanely Euthanized after a hungry MOUSE was left in with him overnight. Don't quote me on that

I had to kill off the dad of 2 litters of baby rats because he was killing the babies today. I just did the "smack" against the wall. The first smack and he was dead. The 3rd smack I went for a wet rag to wipe the blood off the freshly painted wall. I think its a bit more humane to just suddenly die from a single smack than having than being constricted for a minute or 2 before I died

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Originally Posted by Pork Chops N' Corn Bread

I had to kill off the dad of 2 litters of baby rats because he was killing the babies today. I just did the "smack" against the wall. The first smack and he was dead. The 3rd smack I went for a wet rag to wipe the blood off the freshly painted wall. I think its a bit more humane to just suddenly die from a single smack than having than being constricted for a minute or 2 before I died

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I am with you. Some people get upset cause you whack the rodent one fast quick smack and it's dead and they say it's inhumane.
I think the whack or gas would be way more humane than being snatched in the jaws of a snake then constricted. I know when I feed my bp rats they gasp and struggle for a few mins. before it's lights out. I don't like feeding live but Ozzy just will not eat f/t or even fresh whacked. Believe me I have tried and tried.

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Originally Posted by jotay

I am with you. Some people get upset cause you whack the rodent one fast quick smack and it's dead and they say it's inhumane.
I think the whack or gas would be way more humane than being snatched in the jaws of a snake then constricted. I know when I feed my bp rats they gasp and struggle for a few mins. before it's lights out. I don't like feeding live but Ozzy just will not eat f/t or even fresh whacked. Believe me I have tried and tried.

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Mice are much easier to kill. Just a simple flick to the head and they are dead

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Originally Posted by Pork Chops N' Corn Bread

I had to kill off the dad of 2 litters of baby rats because he was killing the babies today. I just did the "smack" against the wall. The first smack and he was dead. The 3rd smack I went for a wet rag to wipe the blood off the freshly painted wall. I think its a bit more humane to just suddenly die from a single smack than having than being constricted for a minute or 2 before I died

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If he was dead on the first smack, why did you smack 2 more times?

Because he hated him. LOL

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Originally Posted by rabernet

If he was dead on the first smack, why did you smack 2 more times?

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to insure its dead. They go limp on the first smack but I would rather be safe than sorry.

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Originally Posted by JasonGranger

Because he hated him. LOL

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LMAO!!! If I hated him that bad I would have threw him in with my female rtb ALIVE!! lol

Dont get me wrong, I've done my fair share of wacking...we had to stun mice at a store I used to work in way back in the day and feed them to the Kookaburra’s, but we also had to cut the beaks off of dead ducklings and chickens for the owls....ate live gold fish on a daily basis (dont ask) and on and on as far as doing things to animals that I wouldnt be caught dead doing today....mainly because back then I didnt know any better or really care I guess.
I was just wondering why some people still do the slapping/thumping to death thing....seems like such a barbaric action...alot of times our "knocked out dead" mice for the birds wouldnt even be truely dead...so after being knocked against the wall they then go on to be killed by birds...humain? Not so much lol.
Just curious is all...dont need anyone to get mad..or what not.

Oh my god. That poor snake. It looks so horrible and painful. God, I feel live, but I watch my snakes until they attack their food and constrict it. At least I'm there to intervene if it gets ugly. And the only reason why I feed live is because my corn won't eat F/T. She did for a while, and then just stopped.

It makes me so mad when I see irresponsible owners like this... Don't they love their snake? I mean, half the people have them as pets, and if they're pets, you should love them, and the other half are breeders, then they usually buy frozen in bulk. So this shouldnt happen.

Can't whack a rabbit against the wall but a baseball bat works wonders.:D :D

This thread does much to illustrate some of the ignorance in the herp world. Show some respect for the prey items. Whacking is NOT humane. Disgusting...

right now i dont have the means to gas my rats...if i still have some money left over from the new snake and everything i neeed for its enclosure, im going to get somebody to send me a gasser.
what about freezing them...without wacking them? thats what the pet stor told mne to do...they said that they go right to sleep. i was complaining about how imhunane it was to freeze them alive, and they might've said that just to shut me up. haha.

The American Veterinarians Association only recognizes CO2 chambers as the only humane method for killing mice and rats. Freezing is also inhumane. Here's a good thread on how to humanely kill your prey items, and easy to do:

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=33850

i feed mine live and might try F/T again soon, but yesterday is the first time i interacted with the killing/constricting, luckily he used to me and didn't let go and take off....the snake grabbed the mouse and bite and constricted but then the mouse was furiously kicking and scratching, so i reached in and grab the mouses hind legs so he couldn't scratch the snake, and everything went fine form there...i think the mouse might have been a little bug , but it was what the pet store gave me and i took the snake in to them to get proper food size. he got ti down but ti took 3 times as long as normal ...so in reality i guess it wasnt too big..lol...my main concern was after he killed it he was tasting it for AWHILE then tried to take it form the rear so i intervined and got scared he wouldn't take it...but he finally took it after i helped arrange it to where the head was posistioned better...



that pic at the begining of this thread was really disturbing, it made my stomach turn and almost welted up :(

Thanks! i added that to my favorites, and ill do my best to make a gas chamber today...i should be getting some rats.

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Originally Posted by jglass38

This thread does much to illustrate some of the ignorance in the herp world. Show some respect for the prey items. Whacking is NOT humane. Disgusting...

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I have to agree

for me it just isn't even an option to kill an animal myself (unless there is suffering involved)

I'm a vegetarian but I also love snakes and know that they need to eat. I'll pay whatever I have to in order to supply f/t food for them but there is no way in hell I'd ever 'whack' or 'stun' an animal. I'm just not the type of person that could do that.

I think I better keep my fingers away from the keyboard on this topic. ;)

I am still not seeing the humaneness of feeding a live mouse to my snake so I will continue to whack.

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Originally Posted by jglass38

This thread does much to illustrate some of the ignorance in the herp world. Show some respect for the prey items. Whacking is NOT humane. Disgusting...

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Thank you for that Jamie!

It's also sad that a book at got at our local library..which is out-dated to hell and back says "We pratice humane ways of killing our rats and mice...freezing them has always worked for us." I mean it was written in 1996....but still didnt freezing an animal alive seem a little horrible back then?

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Originally Posted by Wild Bill

I think I better keep my fingers away from the keyboard on this topic. ;)

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Oh c'mon now. I feed f/t but it's very interesting to watch these debates unfold.:w00t:










BTW, I was kidding about the rabbit in case you didn't notice the smilies.

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Originally Posted by jglass38

This thread does much to illustrate some of the ignorance in the herp world. Show some respect for the prey items. Whacking is NOT humane. Disgusting...

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And throwing in a live rodent to be snatched by jaws and constricted while it struggles for up to 2 mins gasping for air is ??

I personally don't have to whack rats and only had to once or twice in the early years, but I still don't get this debate. Is it ignorance in the herp world to feed live? Whacking correctly or throwing in live what's the difference ?

And please don't go off on the whole how you shouldn't feed live debate. That's a dead issue as long as feeding live is done responsibility.

Not trying to start a heated debate or put down anyone's methods. Just don't get the "ignorance of the herp world" comment.

The "ignorance" comes when people with X years of their own experience attempt to make global statements based upon that experience, whether they are right or wrong.

Many "humane treatment" advocates take the position that we, as humans, have the obligation to apply moral treatment to all animals. With that guiding principle, it would basically follow that feeding live, stunned, whacked, etc, are in fact all inhumane treatment of prey items. It would mean that to be completely humane, prey items would have to be humanely euthanized via methods approved by the AVMA.

Alright, so given all of that, each person needs to decide for themselves the degree to which that moral treatment should be applied to prey items. I personally feel that while using blunt force trauma is not appropriate treatment of items, I have no adverse feelings about watching prey items struggle momentarily during constriction. What makes that "OK" for me is the fact that snakes are designed to complete that task and can successfully and safely under the right conditions.

What it comes down to is getting educated and making *informed* decisions upon what is right and wrong to do. Ignorance occurrs when one holds fast to one belief without ever "thinking outside the bun."

I feed my snakes live food and dont see anything "inhumane" about that just as long as they are supervised during the feeding, Also its more of a shock than anything when the rodent is being consumed alive.but because nature intended it to be that way, and were not worrying about every day the millions of rodents getting consumed alive out in the wild so i dont see anything wrong with it even when they are domesticated to.but like what elevatethis said almost every way of killing the rodent and/or freezing it to be f/t food is considered inhumane to certain people.

To quote Jack Woodall from The Scientist:

"Consider the following: Cats are predators; that’s what they do. Humans were also hunters long before we became farmers and livestock breeders, and humans are animals too. Yet we are conflicted about our predatory heritage; we feel that what is OK for cats is not OK for us."

"Evidently, as George Orwell had his pigs declare in Animal Farm: "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others." We have double standards about the right to life of different species, depending on a variety of factors ranging from similarity to ourselves (the great apes) to cuddliness (dogs, cats, badgers, fur-bearers). How differently we would react to them if rats had cute furry tails and squirrels had naked ones. If foxes had rat-like bare tails, would we care so much about them being hunted with dogs? I have a theory that naked, scaly tails remind us of snakes, for which we have an instinctive revulsion that can only be overcome by touching them and finding that they are warm and dry, not cold and slimy as feared. We need to face up to our prejudices."

Read the entire article here.

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Originally Posted by jotay

And throwing in a live rodent to be snatched by jaws and constricted while it struggles for up to 2 mins gasping for air is ??

I personally don't have to whack rats and only had to once or twice in the early years, but I still don't get this debate. Is it ignorance in the herp world to feed live? Whacking correctly or throwing in live what's the difference ?

And please don't go off on the whole how you shouldn't feed live debate. That's a dead issue as long as feeding live is done responsibility.

Not trying to start a heated debate or put down anyone's mehods. Just don't get the "ignorance of the herp world" comment.

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Feed live or humanely euthanize the prey item. Other than that, its inhumane to whack, flick, stomp, puree, blend, frappe or take a jackhammer to a living creature.

EDIT: I think I am more disturbed by the lack of caring for living creatures than anything else. To me, I think, if they are willing to whack a rat against the wall, and have to wipe off the blood, what kind of moral character can they really have. Take it or leave it, I don't really care either way :rockon:

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Originally Posted by jglass38

Feed live or humanely euthanize the prey item. Other than that, its inhumane to whack, flick, stomp, puree, blend, frappe or take a jackhammer to a living creature.

EDIT: I think I am more disturbed by the lack of caring for living creatures than anything else. To me, I think, if they are willing to whack a rat against the wall, and have to wipe off the blood, what kind of moral character can they really have. Take it or leave it, I don't really care either way :rockon:

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I to find whacking them hard enough times to have to wipe blood off the wall is a bit distrubing. One quick good whack and the creature never feels a thing. Much like the hunter who's shot hits the brain of said creature, boom it's over. Has anyone ever hit or been hit in the head as to knock yourself out? Didn't feel a thing until you came to, right ? Same for a rodent only they never come to.

It is indeed a self moral decision that we all have to make ourselves. Whacking it correct and killing instantly or letting the snake construct and kill it or gassing it is all ones own decision and I don't feel there is a ignorance about it.

It all comes down to that age old thing called opinion.

Just remember, for those that eat beef, They whack that cow in between the eyes and knock it out before they go on to kill it. I guess I just get confused in this great big world why one thing is inhumane for one type of animal but for another it is a legit way . Go figure.

Oh well it is what it is.

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Originally Posted by jglass38

Feed live or humanely euthanize the prey item. Other than that, its inhumane to whack, flick, stomp, puree, blend, frappe or take a jackhammer to a living creature.

EDIT: I think I am more disturbed by the lack of caring for living creatures than anything else. To me, I think, if they are willing to whack a rat against the wall, and have to wipe off the blood, what kind of moral character can they really have. Take it or leave it, I don't really care either way :rockon:

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I do not consider them animals in a way. I bought my snakes knowing what they ate and knowing what it would take to keep them alive.

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Originally Posted by tmlowe5704

I do not consider them animals in a way.

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Are you referring to the rats?

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Originally Posted by tmlowe5704

I do not consider them animals in a way. I bought my snakes knowing what they ate and knowing what it would take to keep them alive.

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Sooo... what do you consider them as?

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Originally Posted by tmlowe5704

I do not consider them animals in a way. I bought my snakes knowing what they ate and knowing what it would take to keep them alive.

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Brilliant! :rockon:

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Originally Posted by JasonGranger

What?! That's just making it worse! They should've used a CO2 chamber.

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Yep they froze him...It is better in a freezer ...there body just shuts down.

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Originally Posted by stangs13

Yep they froze him...It is better in a freezer ...there body just shuts down.

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Wrong! Get the facts straight big guy...Freezing death is horribly painful. Anyone who told you otherwise is wrong and most likely, dangerous to themself and others.