Another BP not eating

I received my ball python, Garret, on Sept 12th of this year, shipped from California to New Hampshire. He was hatched (CB) about the third week of August, and according to the breeder was eating f/t pinky rats. He shed about a week before he was shipped, I believe.

He's housed in a sterilite tub with undertank heating, as well as heat rope along the sides since it's getting cold in my house. He's got two small hides on either side of the tub, with his water in the middle, which he seems to enjoy quite a bit. Temps range from about 80 at the cool side to 90-92 on the hot side, with humidity at 70%.

He hasn't eaten since before he was shipped. I only handle him to change the papers in the tub and have been trying to feed him about every four days or so. I've attempted pinkies and fuzzy rats, from three different vendors, all warmed to about 90F. I've tried feeding in the tub, wiggling the rat, leaving it alone, putting it in a hide on both cold and warm sides and leaving it overnight. I've tried using a different tub to feed in. He just wriggles around exploring til he bumps into the rat, and then looks freaked out and goes as far away from it as possible.

I'm starting to get worried and I was going to try live feeders, but can't find anything anywhere, not even plain old fancy mice at Petco. Any suggestions, or is my snake just "special"?

So he was roughly 4 weeks old when you got him? Doesn't it usually take about 2 weeks until they are ready for their first meal, absorbing yolk and then shedding? That would leave maybe 2 feedings before shipping. Doesn't sound like he was off to a very solid start before being shipped?? Have you contacted the breeder?

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Originally Posted by sho220

So he was roughly 4 weeks old when you got him? Doesn't it usually take about 2 weeks until they are ready for their first meal, absorbing yolk and then shedding? That would leave maybe 2 feedings before shipping. Doesn't sound like he was off to a very solid start before being shipped?? Have you contacted the breeder?

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The breeder sounded great when I first talked to him. Now I'm not so sure. I didn't realize the timeline didn't really work out until now, but he swore that he'd gotten a few good meals, plus shed. I feel like an idiot for just taking his word for everything.

Crap. I emailed the breeder a couple of weeks ago expressing my concern about his lack of interest in food and he replied to me, and I quote, "Sure...He was actually eating f/t before I sent him. Here are a few tips:
Make sure it's very warm (90 degrees)
Make sure it's very dry...
Wiggle a bit. Sorry, I have to run!"

Well no crap. This may be the first snake I've owned, but I've handled snakes and at least done enough research to know this much. He's no help at all.

Do you think feeding live might help? I hate to do it, but I will if that's what it takes. I'm having a heck of a time finding live feeders anywhere around here (SW New Hampshire). I just don't want to lose my Garret, and I'd really like him to start eating so I could handle him once in a while. He's really a bold and fun snake, outside of his tub, the couple of times I let him explore.

I would read up on some of the other "problem feeder" threads before trying a live feeding. There have been alot of them lately.

I've been reading them, hoping for some info that will help. I'll keep reading. I'm just a worrier.

How close are you to this:


http://www.newenglandreptile.com/petstore.html

???

New Hampshire isn't all THAT big of a state (says the girl who grew up in Texas) and I'd make the drive out there just for the heck of it! :P

Anyhow...besides that little hint for finding live feeders and anything else you could ever want or need for your BP or other pets.....

It sounds to me like you may be stressing the little guy out. It's not necessary to feed (or attempt to feed) every four days. He's just barely getting settled when you fuss over him again and try something new and different. Here's what I would suggest...

Get some newspaper and crumple it into loose balls, and fill his tub with them...leaving just enough room for you to get to his water bowl. Leave him completely alone for a full week, with the newspapers...and don't go into his tub or mess with him in any way except to add water if needed. Once that FULL WEEK is complete...warm up your frozen prey item and place it near the entrance of whatever hide he's in. Leave the newspapers in place...close up the tub...and leave him alone with it.

Since it's f/t...I'd give it at least several hours, if not overnight, before I disturbed him to see if he'd eaten it. IF NOT...then remove it and wait another full week. At that point, you may try a young live rodent, and see if that stimulates his feeding. But either way, keep him completely secure and only try once every seven days.

And check out NERD and Zoo Creatures!!!

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Originally Posted by dangermouth

I've been reading them, hoping for some info that will help. I'll keep reading. I'm just a worrier.

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The wadded up newspaper trick seems to be pretty succesful. I think it's most often a security issue...

I've been hoping to make a pilgrimage to NERD at some point, but it's over a four hour round trip.

I guess I'll try the crumpled newspaper, wait a week, then see what happens. Maybe I'm too used to mammalian ways and I'm making him upset (I mostly keep mammals, but I was a vet tech for exotics). We shall see.

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Originally Posted by dangermouth

Maybe I'm too used to mammalian ways and I'm making him upset (I mostly keep mammals, but I was a vet tech for exotics). We shall see.

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It does take a whole new paradigm when caring for reptiles...snakes in particular. Their whole method of eating so infrequently, their metabolism and digestive systems...it's all so alien compared to what we're used to with ourselves and our furry pets.

It's just so totally different going from reading it in a book/online to actually practicing the husbandry. I hate being a noob!

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Originally Posted by dangermouth

It's just so totally different going from reading it in a book/online to actually practicing the husbandry. I hate being a noob!

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I hear ya!! I'm in the same boat...and despite countless hours spent pouring over everything BP related that I can...not to mention spent reading every single post ever made in these forums.....I've only had my BP for a few months, and am still making newbie mistakes. There's just no substitute for real, hands-on experience!

most babies will eat fuzzy or hopper mice for their first meals. i would feed him live for 3-4 meals, to get some food in him, and then work to switch him to f/t!



vaughn

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Originally Posted by kavmon

most babies will eat fuzzy or hopper mice for their first meals. i would feed him live for 3-4 meals, to get some food in him, and then work to switch him to f/t!

vaughn

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The trick is finding live. I can't find anywhere within an hour's drive with live mice.

I have increased the temp in his tub with a space heater, and added crumpled newspaper. I may try one more f/t rat pinky before I go venture hours and hours away to get a few mice.

Also - if anyone knows a place that will ship live mice, I'd be so grateful...but I'm thinking no one does this. OR, if anyone in the NH/VT/western MA area has extra live feeders, I'd pay handsomely.

You might want to try heating the pinky up a bit more. When my bp seems not interested in his rat it is usually because I haven't heated it up enough. I take it out and put a hair drier on it for about a minute or two(probably a little less for a pinky) and he'll stirke right away after that.

I got my bp in May and had problems getting him to eat for me as well. It took about 3-4 weeks so don't worry to much, Garret will eat when he's ready.

Yeah, I tried a hair dryer last time, since it seemed like the pinky was cooling down way too fast. Nope. Garret just wanted to explore. None of this eating B.S. for him.

Hi! This is a really good web site you can order feeders from (they are prekilled as far as I know), but I thought you might want to check it out.:)


http://rodentpro.com

Your thread on the other site sort of died.
So have you really learned a lot about this breeder? like, googled him? That's how I realised the one I bought from was less than stellar.

And does Garret look like he's losing any weight yet? Does he look more triangular or round? :( I hope he gets better, after we all got you so excited to get one!

I googled the guy but didn't find anything. Seems like more people than not are finding crappy breeders the first time around.

Garret is starting to look like he's lost weight, not so tubby as when I got him. I'm going to bite the bullet and go looking for live tonight. There's only one store I know of that has mice (the local decent store AND Petco are both out of mice) but I hate giving them money because they sell crappy puppies.

So, I went out and bought three tiny little mice. They're way too cute to use as food, but tough. I named them Steak, Burger and Porkchop. The hope is that he'll eat all of them, but in case they don't appeal to them, Burger is a boy and Porkchop is a girl, and maybe they'll create some smaller meals for him. I really hate the idea of feeding live.

Garret is afraid of Steak, and Steak is a little wild thing who got a tiny nip of Garret's tail, so that was a total failure. Next week will be round two.

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Originally Posted by dangermouth

So, I went out and bought three tiny little mice. They're way too cute to use as food, but tough. I named them Steak, Burger and Porkchop. The hope is that he'll eat all of them, but in case they don't appeal to them, Burger is a boy and Porkchop is a girl, and maybe they'll create some smaller meals for him. I really hate the idea of feeding live.

Garret is afraid of Steak, and Steak is a little wild thing who got a tiny nip of Garret's tail, so that was a total failure. Next week will be round two.

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and that is another reason for not wanting to breed my own rodents.

I hate it, but I'll do it if it gets the little bugger eating. I want my fat snake back.

You'll have a big chubmonster anytime. You're too dedicated to your pets for Garret to win. It is now a batle of wills! :)

OK, we're almost there. Garret struck a live mouse tonight and tried to constrict it but the little *&$! got away. I left him for a bit longer but his only interest was getting the hell out of the feeding tub, so we'll try again in a week. At least this makes me feel a little better. Garret's not completely retarded, and is obviously getting hungry.

Go Go Garret!!

Sounds like the feeding tub may be stressing the snake out. Why not just leave him in his home to feed?

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Originally Posted by SarahMB

Sounds like the feeding tub may be stressing the snake out. Why not just leave him in his home to feed?

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I was concerned that there was just too much stuff in his home for him to be able to grab the mouse. He hid in his hide and the mouse ran around doing whatever. He never struck at a mouse in his home and totally ignored all the f/t stuff I offered him. He did finally strike at the mouse in the tub, so I'm hoping that it'll work.

I WIN!!

I followed some advice, ignored others, and in the end, I am happy. I decided to try again, way sooner than I should - but I tried in his own home. It was obvious from his body language that he was interested in the mouse.

I can honestly say that watching Garret strike, constrict and swallow that mouse was the coolest thing I've ever witnessed.

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Originally Posted by dangermouth

I WIN!!

I followed some advice, ignored others, and in the end, I am happy. I decided to try again, way sooner than I should - but I tried in his own home. It was obvious from his body language that he was interested in the mouse.

I can honestly say that watching Garret strike, constrict and swallow that mouse was the coolest thing I've ever witnessed.

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OK i am not sure how i missed this thread:eek: .I did read the WHOLE thing now.First off whomever you bought this snake from would never see another dime of mine if i was you.I will not allow any of my babies to ever leave my care until they have eaten at least 4 meals.For him to ship you this snake after only 2 "possible" meals is just wrong.When i read his comments to you and then "i gotta run" sealed my feelings towards him :mad: .I am very happy that this story ended a happy one:rockon: .My only advice i can give you is take things with him on a slow pace and i hope he continues to eat.I will be watching for a thread from you stating "he just shed a complete shed for me":D .Just for information purposes could you pm me the breeders name? I want to add him to my avoid by all means list,if he is not their allready:mad: .

YES! Congrats dangermouth! I couldn't check PI so I'm glad I got some Garret news here :) Isn't it awesome to watch him eat?

(All your threats worked! :P)

I just read a post from PI and had to come here and get the full story.. Glad to hear he's eating, hopefully he keeps it up.

Okay just so I get this right. This supposed good breeder sent you a hatchling so young it may (or may not) have taken possibly two meals and then wasn't much help when you contacted him/her? Lovely...sigh.

So the little one is now taking feeds in it's home enclosure and you've got lots of scrunched up newspaper in there? Remember to not remove that newspaper all at once and personally I wouldn't remove any of it until you've gotten at least 3 or 4 decent feeds into the baby. Then remove only a bit of it each week so very slowly over time the snake adjusts. If it stresses or refuses again, keep that newspaper in there. It's not pretty but it's a proven "trick" that a lot of us use. I've used it with a huge adult female BP that was super nervous and it worked like a charm for her too so it's just not for the babies.

Congrats on the feeding!

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Okay just so I get this right. This supposed good breeder sent you a hatchling so young it may (or may not) have taken possibly two meals and then wasn't much help when you contacted him/her? Lovely...sigh.

So the little one is now taking feeds in it's home enclosure and you've got lots of scrunched up newspaper in there? Remember to not remove that newspaper all at once and personally I wouldn't remove any of it until you've gotten at least 3 or 4 decent feeds into the baby. Then remove only a bit of it each week so very slowly over time the snake adjusts. If it stresses or refuses again, keep that newspaper in there. It's not pretty but it's a proven "trick" that a lot of us use. I've used it with a huge adult female BP that was super nervous and it worked like a charm for her too so it's just not for the babies.

Congrats on the feeding!

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Actually, I was bad and took out the newspaper. He kept squashing it all up into his water dish. He seems pretty comfy in there, since there's hardly any free area - just water dish and little hides.

darned double post

Maybe in lieu of the paper and to add security, add in some fake plants? I did that with my guy, bought some ugly fake ivy from a craft store that was really cheap. Then I cut some off, put it in his cage and would take it out after it had sat in his water dish awhile to keep the mildew away. That way you don't have soggy newspaper screwing up your humidity?

Silly things being so convinced we want to eat them!

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Originally Posted by mousch

Maybe in lieu of the paper and to add security, add in some fake plants? I did that with my guy, bought some ugly fake ivy from a craft store that was really cheap. Then I cut some off, put it in his cage and would take it out after it had sat in his water dish awhile to keep the mildew away. That way you don't have soggy newspaper screwing up your humidity?

Silly things being so convinced we want to eat them!

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That's a good idea, though I've had to add some wet paper towels for humidity since I've been using a space heater. Darn thing just blows away all the humidity.

Anyway, I'm going to see how he does in his setup as is, but if he seems freaked out, I'll try the fake plants. He really doesn't strike me as stressed, but like I've said before, I know mammals better than reptiles.

It just makes me sooo happy to see the mouse-shaped speedbump.

Update!

I checked up on my mice this afternoon. One of the two remaining, the one Garret had struck and released, had died. Out of some utter impatience, I stuck the other mouse in Garret's tub. I knew there was no chance of anything happening, but whatever.

I turn my back for one second and I hear a scuffle...I hurry back and lift the lid, worried that the mouse had bitten Garret. But it was the other way around! Good ol' Garret downed another mouse! I'm hoping he'll take scented f/t fuzzy rats next time, since I don't think mice are really big enough for him.

http://static.flickr.com/99/280915965_d061a147bb_m.jpg

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Originally Posted by dangermouth

Update!

I checked up on my mice this afternoon. One of the two remaining, the one Garret had struck and released, had died. Out of some utter impatience, I stuck the other mouse in Garret's tub. I knew there was no chance of anything happening, but whatever.

I turn my back for one second and I hear a scuffle...I hurry back and lift the lid, worried that the mouse had bitten Garret. But it was the other way around! Good ol' Garret downed another mouse! I'm hoping he'll take scented f/t fuzzy rats next time, since I don't think mice are really big enough for him.

http://static.flickr.com/99/280915965_d061a147bb_m.jpg

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If you're feeding live why aren't you supervising the feeding?! Thats extremely irresponsible live feeding habits IMO. Good thing he's eating though.

Thank you, o judgmental one. "Turned my back for a second" does not mean "unsupervised".

I know when my BP eats, my room has to be pitch black and well it's not always easy to see/watch him. If I hear any kind of russle I turn the light back on and check on him but normally that russle or wack sound is him getting the small rat.

Thank you.

Because Garret's tub is shallow frosted plastic, and he's prone to explore, I've had to keep the lid on and observe through the air holes. Last time, it took over a hour. Y'know, I didn't have my eye glued to the half inch hole the entire time. Just couldn't do it. But I did get a good idea of how the mouse was behaving, and no injuries occurred.

You're not likely to get horrible fatal bites in a second of inattentiveness. It's leaving a mouse (or worse, a rat) alone with the snake for ten minutes, a half hour, overnight. Even s o, I am only feeding live because he totally ignored f/t...I'm hoping that changes soon.