I have a few questions

I wasn't sure where exactly to put this but it seemed best to put it under Husbandry.

So this is how it goes, my parents are thinking about letting me get my own snake.(I want a ball python obviously :P ) So far, 1 of my sisters has had 3 ball pythons, and my other sister 2. My dad had constricters before he married my mom and knows quite a bit and plans to help me out a lot. But he told me to get an estimate of the price.

My two sisters havn't really done very well with setting up a good cage for their ball pythons but they did good enough that well.. I don't know... =( But anyway, I want to be able to have a nice habitat that would put my sisters' past tanks to shame but still not have to spend a whole lot of money. So here is a list of a few things that I would really appreciate someone helping me with:

• What size tank
• How to get the humidity right and have it stay
• I can't think strait right now but some tips would be greatly appreciated!

I tryed reading the page that tells all about this but I found it very confusing and quite a bit of information for a 13 year old to take in at one time. Thank you all for your time and helping me! I really want to do this snake thing right!

Hmmmmmm....do you want something that's attractive...or something that provides the very best environment for your snake?

Well, I would like the best environment for my soon to be snake, but I'm a little bit confused. Why couldn't it be a good environment AND look at least a little bit attractive?

It is possible to have an attractive environment for your snake and have it meet the optimal requirements of temps and humidity....it's just a lot harder to maintain. Often times, a simple plastic tub from Rubbermaid or Sterelite will make a more perfect home...but obviously isn't as pretty.

Which way do you think would be the best way to go? You said that an attractive environment would be harder to maintain, I don't quite understand what you consider attractive... Sorry if I'm being difficult, I'm having trouble understanding at the moment.

Alot of people on this site choose to keep thier BP's in rubbermaid tubs or racks... which are very easy to maintain temps and humidity in.. some choose to keep thier BP's in aquarium type tanks which you have to work harder to maintain your temps/humidity but can be decorated and show off your snake.

its truly a personal choice... i use a 20gallon long tank.. it works for me and my snake..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...-3-cropped.jpg

Ok....I'll try to explain:


An "attractive" environment would be on that is in an all glass cage (fish tank)...with a natural looking substrate (the stuff on the floor)...some greenery (fake)....and natural or cool looking hides...and a nice looking water dish.

The trouble with this kind of set-up:

--An all glass environment can make some ball pythons nervous because they feel too exposed
--The screened lid and thin glass make holding in heat and humidity much more difficult....causing greater temperature swings that can make your BP want to not eat...and low humidity that can cause difficult sheds
--Lots of stuff to clean and keep sanitary

A more basic and "plain" setup would be a plastic tub that you can see through but isn't completely clear....newspaper or papertowel on the "floor"...two basic hides and a small, plain water dish. The plastic tub would have small holes drilled or melted along the sides to allow for fresh air.

The benefits of this:

--It maintains proper temps and humidity almost effortlessly.
--VERY easy to clean.
--BP's tend to feel more secure because they can't see the wide world outside so well.

ALL that being said...it IS possible to keep a nice tank/glass cage for your snake. It just depends on if the amount of extra work involved is worth the good looks or not.

I think in my opinion I would like a more attractive cage and take the time to take care of it. What type do YOU think is better though?

Well, I started out with a very pretty tank....and am now using a plain ol' plastic tub. My BP helped make that choice for me by going on a 2 month fast. As soon as I switched to the tub, she snapped out of it.


Here is a list of the items you'll need to set up a glass tank...I'll put price estimates where I know them.

1. Glass tank 10g, 15g, OR 20g longs
2. Screen lid that will slide on and lock in place
3. Under Tank Heater (UTH) ...can be had from the petstore for around $30
OR
3. UTH ...Flexwatt...can be purchased online for about $10 for your purposes
4. Thermostat to control UTH ... around $65 online
OR
4. Dimmer switch to control UTH ...about $12 at hardware store, but is not as accurate or safe as a thermostat
5. Substrate of choice (not pine or cedar)
6. Water bowl
7. Multiple Hides (your choice but make 'em small and tight and identical)
8. Cage decorations

of course if you decide to go with a sterilite container... it could cost you as little as 5-10 dollars for your container and that includes your lid!

cuts down on the cost a lot and in most people's opinion, it's a better environment for you snake.

They both sound like they have a lot of ups and downs to them. Seems like the plastic tub would be a better option but I have this one problem: People think I misstreat my animals when I give them something simple like that. I think its extremely stupid! I once had a goldfish in a fairly large bowl and this lady came by that I know and she started giving me a lecture about how I should have a tank the size of Texas to house that one little goldfish and how I should get at least 5 more. Sorry totally irrelivent. :oops:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by catzeye21138

They both sound like they have a lot of ups and downs to them. Seems like the plastic tub would be a better option but I have this one problem: People think I misstreat my animals when I give them something simple like that. I think its extremely stupid! I once had a goldfish in a fairly large bowl and this lady came by that I know and she started giving me a lecture about how I should have a tank the size of Texas to house that one little goldfish and how I should get at least 5 more. Sorry totally irrelivent. :oops:

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Well, who cares what someone else thinks as long as your animal is healthy!:) With your setup question: 3 months ago my brother bought a 20gal tank for his BP. Cool hides, UTH, CHE, cool water dish, background scenery etc... It ended up costing like $140.00 and that is with the rheostat. He liked the looks at first, but after a couple of thourough(sp) cleanings, he hated it. Also, we couldn't maintain heat or humidity at all!! Then, about 2 months after that, I found out you could house bps in tubs. I ordered a rack of tubs and T-stat for my snakes I was planning on getting. Well got my snake before my racks came, unfortunately. Luckily I had a perfect tub sitting around so I quickly converted it into a perfect bp home.


ANYWAY, what im trying to say is ahsdiohwre.mx c,.z i don't know haha...

TUB:
PROS- easy to clean, maintain temps(with Thermostat) and humidity, bp is more likely not to stress
CONS- Not a display piece, although I think a big rack is amusing to look at hahaha

Tank:
PROS- Nice display
CONS- must buy extras to modify it, hard to clean, hard to maintain temps and humidity unless modified, Most times BPs feel exposed, takes up a lot of space IMO.

Welcome to the forum. I'm sure we can help get you all squared away.

It's great that you are dealing with housing choices before you move on to when and where to purchase your first ball python. That's a very responsible move on your part. Housing/husbandry issues are the main reason snakes don't do well with inexperienced owners so getting that taken care of first is always best.

For a single snake as a pet a glass enclosure can be fine. It's a little more work granted but with only the one snake you can likely manage it just fine. To save money call around to good aquarium stores and see if they have any nice used tanks for sale. Also check WalMart for tanks that come without all the fish accessories. Pet stores are far too expensive for tanks unless they have sales on.

Spend money on a really secure lid (about $10 to $15 depending on size). You want the type that is metal framed and also purchase seperately two metal clamps (they come 2 per package so you can get 2 or even 4 of them). They will hold the lid very secure to the tank. Plastic framed lids with plastic clips are next to useless and will allow your snake to escape. You can find these lids at Meijers, etc. (again avoid the pet store prices if possible).

So now you have the tank and a secure lid/clamps. Next you need a good substrate (bedding) and a way to monitor your temps/humidity. If you are looking for something attractive and safe, your best bet is aspen. You can get a bag of it from WalMart for $4.00. It's packed tight so there's actually a lot of it in there for one snake's needs once it's fluffed up. Never use cedar or cedar mix beddings or pine for a snake. While you are at WalMart grab an Acu-Rite for $12 (also one AAA battery). Here's a pic of one. You can find it in the outdoor thermometer/weather station area of the store. Do not get any of those stick on dial jobbies from the pet stores. They do not read the temps right at all and are a complete waste of money.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e2...g/Acu-Rite.jpg

You put the actual unit on the cool side of the enclosure and run the long thin cord either under the aspen or out and back into the tank. Tuck the probe into the warm side hide. Push some buttons and you will get the following:

IN temp: this is what the unit is reading (your cool side temp)
OUT temp: this is what the probe is reading (the temp inside your warm side hide)
HUMIDITY: the ambient humidity of your tank

You want to aim for 82-84 degrees on the cool side (IN temp), 92-94 degrees on the warm side (OUT temp) and about 50-60% humidity. This is at all times, 24/7, 365 days of the year.

Your greatest expense will be a good UTH (under tank heater). Avoid overhead lights as they suck out the humidity and aren't all that effective for the money they cost. Since heating is a major expense and there's a lot of choices take time picking this out and asking for advice on which product is best. Poor heating choices for cold blooded pets will cause you a lot of hassle.

So now you have a tank, a secure lid, a good substrate, a heating source, a way to monitor your temps/humidity....now you need hides and a water dish plus cage "furniture" (decorations).

You can buy very pretty and expensive hides through your pet store if you wish or go with plain and much cheaper hides like dog dishes, planter saucers, etc. Just make sure that whatever you pick is barely bigger than the snake is coiled up and you buy two identical ones, also that they are easy to clean (snakes will poop and pee in their hides). While your snake is a baby and growing fast it will change the size of it's hides more often so you might want to go cheap now and save for really fancy hides when it's mature (your choice really). Hides need to create a very tight, very dark place for your snake to rest in. A ball python that can't retreat to a dark, snug home will become stressed. A stressed BP will get sick, refuse to eat or become very snappy and more likely to nip at you.

Here's a couple of examples of hides I use...

Big black rubber dog dish (on aspen bedding) for a mature female BP (note how tightly she is coiled in there...this is what you want for a snake)....
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e2...irseinHide.jpg

A typical baby BP setup we use. Very plain but we have a lot of snakes. Note the Acu-Rite set up, one heavy water dish and two planter saucer hides...the baby snake is curled up in one of them in this pic....
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e2...MuirnesTub.jpg

Water dishes should be small, heavy and easy to keep clean. BP's do not need to soak in their water dish so no need for a big one. Heavy so they can't tip it over all the time and wet their bedding. Small so they don't use it for a toilet and start bacteria growing. Easy to clean because standing water in a warm, humid environment like a snake's home grows germs fast. The one is the above pic is from the pet aisle at WalMart and is for use with rodents...I think it cost me about $2.00.

As far as furniture for the cage that's up to you. BP's aren't climbers but can enjoy a bit of stuff to mess with. Fake vinery is fine as long as the wires that it's constructed from are not exposed to scratch your snake. You can purchase decorative wood from the pet store if you wish, again make sure it's secure so the snake cannot knock it over and fall a lot. A lot of major craft stores have better prices for this stuff then pet stores do (check Michael's, etc.)

Borrow some plastic wrap from your mom's kitchen. Cover half of the screen lid of your enclosure. That will help keep humidity in and you can fiddle with how much you need to hit the right humidity (50-60%) and it's see through so doesn't interfere with your tank "look". Always remember to leave some lid mesh exposed to allow for proper air movement in and out of the tank however.

Okay so now you have a tank, a secure lid, a heating source, substrate, two hides, a water dish and some decorations. Let everything sit (water dish full of water) and watch the tank for 2 days. See how it stablizes, then tweak it or ask for help here to tweak it. Once you know how your tank works in the room it's in you can start thinking about where to buy the snake from.

Avoid PetCo and other pet stores if possible! I can't say that strongly enough. Pet stores are the last place a newcomer needs to get a baby BP from. They are way too expensive and most of their baby snakes aren't eating, are sick, or are recent imports being passed off as captive born. Ask here and the members can direct you to a nice breeder that will likely have a lovely normal male BP to sell you or they will tell you of a snake show in your area you can go and get one from. Most normal male BP's are very reasonable from a breeder even with the shipping involved.

For example our PetCo is charging $79.99 for a baby BP this week. I can easily purchase one from a breeder and even with shipping charges I wouldn't be much more than a pet store price. I would however be getting a healthy, captive born snake that is feeding, shedding and pooping/peeing as it should. I wouldn't be getting a sick snake that might cost me a ton of vet bills to fix it up or heartbreak if it doesn't survive.

Okay, hope this long post helped you out. Just remember that all this work now on the snake's home will pay off. It's hard to wait to get your snake but it will be your buddy for about 20 years so planning now and being patient is the right thing to do (sounds like you already know your sisters aren't doing it right).

Last piece of advice, if there is a herp society or group where you live give them a call. They often offer a junior membership and it's a fun and informative thing for you to do. They usually meet monthly. If you need help finding one, just ask.

I think tubs look pretty good in racks...but thats just me. ;)


Like said before who cares what they think!!! Im suree you could easily prove to them why to do so. And when/if there sankes go of feed and yours trives and grows you can tell them to switch to a rubbermaid.


Ball python price ranges generaly run through about 10$ (dont get these they are most likly wild caught) - Tens of thousands of $s.

Hope it helps.

Thanks everyone! You are all really helping me a lot on this matter!

Well, I use a 20 gallon long glass tank. A trick (that I learned here :D ) I use is putting a couple layers of foil over 75% of the screen, and duct tape it into place. it helps keep humidity in (i almost never have to spray and it stays over 50%).


i use regular old paper towels for substrate and have a couple hides and the water dish and he's pretty happy in there. eats like a champ.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rhapsody

Well, I use a 20 gallon long glass tank. A trick (that I learned here :D ) I use is putting a couple layers of foil over 75% of the screen, and duct tape it into place. it helps keep humidity in (i almost never have to spray and it stays over 50%).


i use regular old paper towels for substrate and have a couple hides and the water dish and he's pretty happy in there. eats like a champ.

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Oh cool, if I did it that way I wouldn't have to worry half as much to keep it the right humidity because it would basicly keep it on its own? I would still watch it of course.

putting something over the screen and placing the water dish on the hot side should keep the humidity up

Yah, I read that sticky. I found it very informative.