albino x pastel?

What would the outcome be of a mix with albino male and pastel female..?

I think it would be a mix of pastels and normals that are 50% het for albino??? Not sure though...

They'd all be 100% het for albino. Some pastels and some normals. Then breed your pastel hets back to the pastel parent to try to get a pastel albino.

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Originally Posted by rasmus olsen

What would the outcome be of a mix with albino male and pastel female..?

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Each egg has a 50/50 chance of hatching out a pastel or normal....and all the babies would be 100% het albino.

Yeah...what they said ;)

Ok.. How does a pastel albino look like?? I have search the web but couldn't find anything. Is it just like an normal albino??

for the most part it looks just like an normal albino...with a little more blushing.

This would come out.

http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/ma...ino_pastel.asp

Ralph has lots of pics of cool morphs.

I don't understand how you can have a pastel albino. In order for a snake to show visible albino traits, it would need to be homozygous, but how could it also be pastel if a pastel snake has to have at least one pastel allele.

Yes, you are correct. a pastel bred to an albino would make het albinos and pastel het albinos. a pastel het albino bred to another het albino gets you the Pastel Albino.


I am sorry for the wrong info by me.

Ok, lol, I still do not get it. An albino is only an albino if it has both the albino recessive genes present, correct? And a pastel is only a pastel if it has one pastel gene present (if it has both it will be super?, but that is beside the point), correct? So, let's call the Albino Gene "A" and the Pastel Gene "P" and the Normal Gene "N". So for the first BP, which you are saying is a Pastel which is het for Albino, its genes would be (PA). For the second BP, which is normal and het albino, it would be (NA).

Out of the four offspring then, you would get a PN (Pastel), a PA (Pastel het Albino, like one of it's parents), and 2 (AN), which are normal het albinos. So I still do not understand how you can have a pastel albino, because in order for albino to be visible, the BP must be homozygous towards it, but if you are saying the BP is pastel is well, it must have a pastel gene, which contradicts how it can be albino. Care to explain lol?

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Originally Posted by mocolo

Ok, lol, I still do not get it. An albino is only an albino if it has both the albino recessive genes present, correct? And a pastel is only a pastel if it has one pastel gene present (if it has both it will be super?, but that is beside the point), correct? So, let's call the Albino Gene "A" and the Pastel Gene "P" and the Normal Gene "N". So for the first BP, which you are saying is a Pastel which is het for Albino, its genes would be (PA). For the second BP, which is normal and het albino, it would be (NA).

Out of the four offspring then, you would get a PN (Pastel), a PA (Pastel het Albino, like one of it's parents), and 2 (AN), which are normal het albinos. So I still do not understand how you can have a pastel albino, because in order for albino to be visible, the BP must be homozygous towards it, but if you are saying the BP is pastel is well, it must have a pastel gene, which contradicts how it can be albino. Care to explain lol?

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I think you are misunderstanding him lol.

If you breed a pastel het albino to another het albino, you will THEN get the pastel albino. Pastel to albino makes ONLY pastel het albinos, and het albino (normal looking)

Sorry, this is q quick mistake in my above post. You will not get 2 normal het albinos from the parents, you will get one visible albino (AA) and one normal het albino (AN).

I understand what you are saying, but in an earlier post, he linked to a site which showed a pastel albino, which is impossible. The closest you can come to a pastel albino is a pastel which is HET for albino. I don't understand how you can have a pastel albino if the pastel mutation is co-dom, and the albino gene is recessive. You can only have one or the other, not both visible...

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Originally Posted by mocolo

Ok, lol, I still do not get it. An albino is only an albino if it has both the albino recessive genes present, correct? And a pastel is only a pastel if it has one pastel gene present (if it has both it will be super?, but that is beside the point), correct? So, let's call the Albino Gene "A" and the Pastel Gene "P" and the Normal Gene "N". So for the first BP, which you are saying is a Pastel which is het for Albino, its genes would be (PA). For the second BP, which is normal and het albino, it would be (NA).

Out of the four offspring then, you would get a PN (Pastel), a PA (Pastel het Albino, like one of it's parents), and 2 (AN), which are normal het albinos. So I still do not understand how you can have a pastel albino, because in order for albino to be visible, the BP must be homozygous towards it, but if you are saying the BP is pastel is well, it must have a pastel gene, which contradicts how it can be albino. Care to explain lol?

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I think your confusion comes from a misunderstanding of how genes are strung together. Not that I'm particularly educated in this matter, but I think I can explain it....

Imagine a long string with 100 pairs of beads attached to its length...for a total of 200 beads. Each pair of beads would represent one pair of genes. Each pair of genes controls one aspect of how the snake looks. So....the albino beads might be the third pair down....while the pastel beads might be at the 54th position. While they both control some aspect of the snake's color appearance...they are still completely different genes. So a snake can have a pair of albino genes at one position on the "string"....and on the "54th position," he may have a pastel and normal bead pair.

I hope that helps some....not sure if I'm being clear or not!

So, you're saying a DNA strand..? can be het albino AND pastel?

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Originally Posted by mocolo

I understand what you are saying, but in an earlier post, he linked to a site which showed a pastel albino, which is impossible.

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Try telling Ralphie that :D :D :D :D :D :D :8:

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Originally Posted by mocolo

So, you're saying a DNA strand..? can be het albino AND pastel?

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Yes...why could it not be? Now, I may be mixing up my terms or understanding, but the basic picture of different gene pairs controlling different aspects of the snake's appearance is sound.

If this could not be...then we would not have snows (axanthic and albino) or bumblebees (spiders and pastels) or albino pieds...or any of the other amazing "designer" morphs out there.

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Originally Posted by mocolo

So, you're saying a DNA strand..? can be het albino AND pastel?

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I guess you havent seen the pastel pieds yet either? LOL!!

Ahh I think I get it now. Thanks for clearing this up. So if

P = pastel gene
N = normal gene
A = Albino gene

then you are saying in order to have an albino pastel, it would need to be
(Pa x a)?

So the pastel gene would ALSO be recessive for albino, which would make the albino pastel DOUBLE het for albino?

N/M i dont know what I'm doing :P

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Originally Posted by JLC

I think your confusion comes from a misunderstanding of how genes are strung together. Not that I'm particularly educated in this matter, but I think I can explain it....

Imagine a long string with 100 pairs of beads attached to its length...for a total of 200 beads. Each pair of beads would represent one pair of genes. Each pair of genes controls one aspect of how the snake looks. So....the albino beads might be the third pair down....while the pastel beads might be at the 54th position. While they both control some aspect of the snake's color appearance...they are still completely different genes. So a snake can have a pair of albino genes at one position on the "string"....and on the "54th position," he may have a pastel and normal bead pair.

I hope that helps some....not sure if I'm being clear or not!

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Overall the idea that genes are seperate entities on a beaded string is valid simplication for Mendelian genetics.

However, I would add some things to your model

For one there is more than one string of beads. For example, humans have 46 chromosomes. What this means is we actually have 46 DNA molecules. Each chromosome contains one DNA molecule plus packaging material. Each DNA molecule contains segements that code for proteins of specific function. We call these segments genes.

In your analogy, if albino and pastel follow a classic Mendelian mode of inheritance than the gene for pastel and albino are different beads on different strings! In other words, the gene for pastel resides on a different DNA molecule or chromosome than the gene for albino.

It is possible that the gene for pastel and albino are on the same chromosome. We call genes on the same chromosome linked genes. If genes are linked than the typical two gene trait probabilties are not valid.
This is because linked genes do not follow Mendel's law of independant assortment. For two linked recessive traits, for example, your chances of producing a double recessive from the breeding of two double hets would be much better than the typical 1 in 16 chance....it would be much higher and closer to 1 in 4!

To determine if a gene is linked through breeding experiments alone would be difficult in an organism like the ball python which has small number of offspring.

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Originally Posted by Mendel's Balls

Overall the idea that genes are seperate entities on a beaded string is valid simplication for Mendelian genetics.

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Haha....coming from you, I'll take that as a sincere compliment. ;) Thanks for exploring the matter even deeper. I learned new stuff today! :sunny:

No problem Judy in the Sky with diamonds.

For those more interested how linked genes would influence two-gene crosses go to this link. Test yourself and then hit tutorial for a good explantion. Or good through the whole tutorial by hitting the Mendelian Genetics button.

http://www.biology.arizona.edu/mende...cross/10Q.html

What are the odds that someone into ball pythons actually maps out all of the different traits and where, if any, might be linked?

(then, what are the odds that someone actually makes that info public....0!)