i need your thoughts and opinions

ok , let me give yall the set up first . one of the guys that works with me at the petshop also works at a local shipyard . he and his crew were cleaning up some old tin sheets at the ship yard when a large female warf rat ran out of the pile . my coworker found a newborn litter of warf rats in the pile and brought them into the petshop . we put them in with one of our nursing females and not only did they survive , but they have flurished . we now have 2 male and one female warf rats that are about two and a half months old . right now we dont know what spiecies of rats these are , but Don ( the ship yard worker ) says that he sees them as big as cats at the shipyard .

now , what i'm wanting to know is , what do yall think of putting these rats with some of our breeding stock and trying to get them to mate with them ? this is something we have been discussing at the petshop but we arent sure if it will work or not .

i'll get some pics on tuesday when i work at the petshop next and post them here so yall can see what they look like .

any thoughts or opinions would be greatly appreciated .

I would think parasite central. I don't know why you'd want to work with them but if you were attached to the boogers, I'd definitely have a fecal taken to a vet to be checked for worms and such. In any case, I'd love to see pics. I have a litter of ratties right now myself,, but of the normal variety. They're cute little boogers. ;)

What's wrong with regular rats and mice?

-adam

i think its the reports that they have been seen as large as cats. Hoping they may be a larger/faster growing line.... thats what i got out of it

Just doing a quick search on the internet indicates that wharf rats may actually be the same species as domesticated rats, rattus norvegicus. I suppose its possible that domestication has caused them to be smaller, I don't know. Wikipedia says that common names are brown rat, wharf rat, Norwegian rat, and common rat. It will definately be interesting to learn what the results of your experiment are!

Steve

i personally think it would be a cool experiment with a possibility for some cool observations. i probably wouldnt feed them off unless you're sure they dont have any parasites though.

nothing wrong with normal rats , we were just hoping to maybe breed a larger line of rats with these . also with most lab rats having fairly poor immune systems from years and years of line and inbreeding we are hoping that maybe we can get a line of rats that are less seceptible(sp) to illness . they do grow very fast . when we got them they were less than 24 hours old . we know this because the mother hadnt had time to even clean the afterbirth off of them . they were put in with a nursing female with 2 week old babies and these critters outgrew the babies that were 2 weeks older than them in about 3 weeks .

we havent decided for sure yet if we will try to breed them or not . i was just mainly looking to see if anyone thinks this is feasable or not .

As long as they are paracite/disease free i dont see why it wouldnt work, but i may be missing something.

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Originally Posted by markface

nothing wrong with normal rats , we were just hoping to maybe breed a larger line of rats with these . also with most lab rats having fairly poor immune systems from years and years of line and inbreeding we are hoping that maybe we can get a line of rats that are less seceptible(sp) to illness . they do grow very fast . when we got them they were less than 24 hours old . we know this because the mother hadnt had time to even clean the afterbirth off of them . they were put in with a nursing female with 2 week old babies and these critters outgrew the babies that were 2 weeks older than them in about 3 weeks .

we havent decided for sure yet if we will try to breed them or not . i was just mainly looking to see if anyone thinks this is feasable or not .

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Well, the surrogate mom has already been exposed to these, as well as the babies she was already nursing. Why not breed them to their "adopted family"? I'm no expert, but I think if they were that young when you got them, and they're still doing ok, they're probably healthy.

How are their dispositions? Any noticable behavior differences?

Steve

I would suggest you segregate all the wild rats and any domestic rat that's been exposed to them immediately. Have fecals done on the whole lot (some parasites can infect babies prior to birth). Once you know they are either disease free or you have treated them, then the next thing I'd personally be concerned about is temperment. Temperment in rats is shown to be heavily gentic. Domesticated rats are generally bred for it to some degree to make them easier to handle (I cull out any breeder that shows an aggressive temperment). I'd watch very carefully that you aren't introducing poor temperment into a stable rat population by introducing wild bloodlines. A rat bite, especially from a large rat, is nothing to sneeze at....they can easily bite you to the bone and slash at you faster than you can begin to react to it. Rat bites tend to fester quickly.

I would try. I thnk only good could come of it (other than possible parasite issues). If they are the same family (rats) than they should breed with no problem. We all know how fast rodents multiply...You could create a cool large hybrid if these warf rats aren't just regular rats that are eating really well on the docks and getting huge. Imagine a line of rats as big as cats! WHat possibilities in the reptile world.

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

I would suggest you segregate all the wild rats and any domestic rat that's been exposed to them immediately. Have fecals done on the whole lot (some parasites can infect babies prior to birth). Once you know they are either disease free or you have treated them, then the next thing I'd personally be concerned about is temperment. Temperment in rats is shown to be heavily gentic. Domesticated rats are generally bred for it to some degree to make them easier to handle (I cull out any breeder that shows an aggressive temperment). I'd watch very carefully that you aren't introducing poor temperment into a stable rat population by introducing wild bloodlines. A rat bite, especially from a large rat, is nothing to sneeze at....they can easily bite you to the bone and slash at you faster than you can begin to react to it. Rat bites tend to fester quickly.

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right now the wild rats and the female that nursed them are quarentined from the other rats we have . the females own babies were euthanized and frozen for future feeding . though i admit we hadnt thought about doing a fecal before using them for breeding , i think i will suggest it to my boss . i'm pretty sure that he will agree to this .
they dont seem to be overly aggresive , but they are extemely hyper active . i have handled all three several times and none have even attempted to bite . they mostly just try to get away when taken out of their incloser . i know this can change as they get older , but i have been working with them to try to get them adjusted to being handled . they are still skittish , but they seem to be getting better about being handled . i'm still using gloves to handle them as i just dont trust them any more than they trust me right now . i dont think they will ever make good "pets" .

i work at the petshop tomorrow so i'll get some pics then for yall to look at . they are actually very pretty if you ask me . they have a solid dark grey coat with a solid black tail .

sounds like gloves may be a good idea for these guys then

ok , here are the pics of the little boogers . they really did not like having their pics taken at all . i had to get one of the other guys i work with to take the pics cause i couldnt do that and hold the rats up at the same time . i think the flash upsets them cause this was the first time any of them ever tried to bite me . 2 of the three bit my glove but it wasnt like they really tried to bite hard , more of an experimental tasting i'd say , lol .

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...r/IM000717.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...r/IM000716.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...r/IM000715.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...r/IM000714.jpg

a couple things i'd like to make a note of for yall . these guys drink very little water at all and have almost no smell !! they deficate much less than domestic rats even though they are voracious eaters . they are super hyperactive literally bouncing off the sides , top and floor of the cage when disturbed . they do not come out during the day at all only at night . they are very secretive and if left with no hide they will burrow into the bedding to hide . they also seem much more inteligent then the domestic rats .

this is how i actually get them out of their cage , i open the cage reach in and grab the hide , pull it out and slam the lid down emediatelly . once they finish bouncing off the walls and burrow in i then grab one by the tail pull it out fast slam the lid closed again because the other two will do their pinball rutine all over again . these critters are like super rats on steroids and crack all at the same time . i dont think i would want to try to feed them live to a snake , they'd have an advantage over the snake.

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Originally Posted by markface

i dont think i would want to try to feed them live to a snake , they'd have an advantage over the snake.

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That's funny.

Introducing new genetics is usually a good thing ... but there is nothing that says these "wild" rats have new genes introduced, chances are they are just as inbred or even more so than lab rats. Most labs offer an "outbred" strain or two. With labs these tend to be new genes as they will have rats shipped in from other countries/parts of the country to diversify.

Wild strains are more susceptible to most diseases. Lab strains are somewhat resistant to disease since they are constantly exposed to it. One lab rat escaping into a wild colony can literally kill off the entire colony.

As you mentioned the wilds are super active ... lab breeding has made them a bit more docile.

While everyone knows someone that has "seen a rat killing a cat, eating a dog, been mistaken for a cat" or other stories like that I have yet to see any over 3 lbs. Even in my jumbo lines males seldom get over 800 grams (just under 2 lbs), and they are specifically bred for size.

Most rats originated from the Norweigan rat. The only reason "wharf rats" may seem bigger is they may have easier access to higher protein foods (seafood).

There is also all of the parasite problems discussed above. Wilds can bring in fleas (cause of the bubonic plague), mites, ticks,

All in all ... unless you have a very specific reason for raising truly wild strains its safer and easier to stay away from them.

Bryan