New Ball Python Owner

Hey everyone! This is my first post...I've been looking for a forum like this for a while until I finally found this one! Anyway, as the subject line says, I'm a proud new owner of a BP...naturally, I have a lot of questions.

I'll start off with just a few for now. I've been reading a lot about how you need to let the snake relax in its new home without handling for about a week. Thing is, when I first got him, I did the opposite of that...I handled him a lot and within 3-4 days I tried feeding him and of course he didn't eat it. I've had him for about 2 weeks now and I have tried to feed him every so often both frozen and live food but he just isn't eating.

So, I'm wondering, could my prior mistakes have done something extremely bad to him? I'm kinda worried and frustrated cuz I just don't understand snakes!

I've been keeping handling to a minimum since I have read that but have I caused some sort of psychological stress to the snake that he just won't want to eat now? Also, another reason I was handling him was cuz he seems really active. He always comes out of his hide and explores the tank, and if I open the top he'll get out and explore things around him (under my supervision of course).

So any tips? I also own a bearded dragon and the 2 are so different it's just crazy. So any ideas and comments are more than welcome!

Thanks people!

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Originally Posted by cubano07x

Hey everyone! This is my first post...I've been looking for a forum like this for a while until I finally found this one! Anyway, as the subject line says, I'm a proud new owner of a BP...naturally, I have a lot of questions.

I'll start off with just a few for now. I've been reading a lot about how you need to let the snake relax in its new home without handling for about a week. Thing is, when I first got him, I did the opposite of that...I handled him a lot and within 3-4 days I tried feeding him and of course he didn't eat it. I've had him for about 2 weeks now and I have tried to feed him every so often both frozen and live food but he just isn't eating.

So, I'm wondering, could my prior mistakes have done something extremely bad to him? I'm kinda worried and frustrated cuz I just don't understand snakes!

I've been keeping handling to a minimum since I have read that but have I caused some sort of psychological stress to the snake that he just won't want to eat now? Also, another reason I was handling him was cuz he seems really active. He always comes out of his hide and explores the tank, and if I open the top he'll get out and explore things around him (under my supervision of course).

So any tips? I also own a bearded dragon and the 2 are so different it's just crazy. So any ideas and comments are more than welcome!

Thanks people!

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Ok, don't hold him for a week. Start today and leave him alone until sunday.Then on Sunday, you feed him. But to tell you the truth it could be anything not causing him to eat. Wrong temps, low humidity, high humidity, hides not secure, too much stress, etc. Make sure the temps and humidity are right so you can rule that out.

Yes, handling may cause stress, which is why it is not recomended to handle your snake very often. I handle mine once or twice a week and they are fine.

Welcome to the site, your questions are welcome too!

First off.. welcome!

If you haven't already, give our caresheet a read through: http://ball-pythons.net/modules.php?...warticle&id=59

Handling right away isn't good because of stress, but it won't ruin him for life. Likely there is something not quite right in his cage/environment. Can you describe your setup.. and if possible post pictures?

Where did you get your BP from? I'm guessing a pet store.. which is one of the worst places to get one.. breeders are much more likely to give you a healthy eating snake. Some BPs will only eat live food.. at least at first. If you go this route you must never leave a live rodent in the cage with the snake without supervising.. rodents can injure snakes if they are left alone with them for too long.

Welcome,

I can tell you that I made a lot of mistakes when I first got my ball python, and he's just fine now. If you take some time to research then you'll be able to learn everything you need to know. There's a ton of helpful information on this site.

:welcome:

The first thing I'd check is your environment. You want a warm side of 92-94 and cool side of 82-84, with the temps measured digitally.

In addition I would advise a trip to a qualified herp vet. http://www.arav.org/USMembers.htm Internal parasites can also cause feeding issues, and can be easily check and treated.

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Originally Posted by OSU_Snake keeper

Welcome,

I can tell you that I made a lot of mistakes when I first got my ball python, and he's just fine now. If you take some time to research then you'll be able to learn everything you need to know. There's a ton of helpful information on this site.

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Very well put. I think every first time owner worries over every little thing, relax and spend some time on here using the search up top and finding your answers....post some new ones and know there are alot of people here to help you out on your journey.

Oh wow thanks for the quick replies everyone! Well here's a pic of my set up and a description of how everything is set up.

Also, yes I got the snake from a petstore but they told me that they had just fed it 2 days prior to when i bought it and that it was eating Hoppers. On top of that, it looked healthy to me aside from apparently a small impartial shed on the top of its body (really small dry piece of skin). They told me it was eating frozen thawed, which I have tried with no luck, which is why I tried live. Anyway, here is my set up:
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...x/IMG_0041.jpg

The condensation you see on the glass is there because I had just finished misting the tank b4 I took the picture. Normally, it isn't close to that humid.

Ok so here's how I have everything set up that you can't see right away. The hot side is on the right side, I have a UTH with a reptile carpet over the glass and then the substrate over that. I did this cuz I read that it will prevent possible burns if the snake decides to bury itself in the subtrate.

I completely covered around 3/4 of the screen top with insulating vinyl to retain heat and humidity. As you can see, I have an infrared bulb over the hot side which keeps ambient temps within the acceptable ranges. My probe is on the ground, near the front of the hide (look near the stick) and it reads 85F. I don't know how accurate it is because it seems pretty cozy in there when I open it and stick my hand in there.

I do NOT have a Hygrometer...YET, I'm gonna be going out within the next couple days to buy one, so I'll be able to tell you the exact humidity. As it stands, I lightly mist the cage once a day, so I'm *guessing* my humidity should be either around where it needs to be or perhaps a little bit higher.


As you can tell from that pic, that's what I mean about him being really active. He constantly looks up and searches for a spot to escape along the top. He seems to really like his new home, which is why I'm so confused on why he won't eat!

Sorry for the long post, but hopefully this clears up a lot more of your questions on my husbandry.

Here's a couple more pics of him being silly:
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...x/IMG_0022.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...x/IMG_0016.jpg







http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...x/IMG_0014.jpg

ps-> His name is Kanihbus because he so laid back and even tempered. :)

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Originally Posted by cubano07x

Hey everyone! This is my first post...I've been looking for a forum like this for a while until I finally found this one! Anyway, as the subject line says, I'm a proud new owner of a BP...naturally, I have a lot of questions.

I'll start off with just a few for now. I've been reading a lot about how you need to let the snake relax in its new home without handling for about a week. Thing is, when I first got him, I did the opposite of that...I handled him a lot and within 3-4 days I tried feeding him and of course he didn't eat it. I've had him for about 2 weeks now and I have tried to feed him every so often both frozen and live food but he just isn't eating.

So, I'm wondering, could my prior mistakes have done something extremely bad to him? I'm kinda worried and frustrated cuz I just don't understand snakes!

I've been keeping handling to a minimum since I have read that but have I caused some sort of psychological stress to the snake that he just won't want to eat now? Also, another reason I was handling him was cuz he seems really active. He always comes out of his hide and explores the tank, and if I open the top he'll get out and explore things around him (under my supervision of course).

So any tips? I also own a bearded dragon and the 2 are so different it's just crazy. So any ideas and comments are more than welcome!

Thanks people!

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Welcome to BPNet. Don't worry unduly that you've done the snake anytime long term damage, just work the problem. Usually feeding refusals are related first to husbandry so I'll address that first.

This is what we often recommend you buy. It's an Acu-Rite from Walmart (sold under different brand names as well at Home Depot and Lowe's) for around $12.00 plus the cost of a AAA battery. You place the unit itself on the cool side of tank, run the probe wire either under the substrate or out and back into the tank and tuck the probe into the cool side hide. Push a couple of buttons and you get IN temp (cool side), OUT temp (warm side inside the hide) and overall humidity. Find out the actual numbers and then if they are off we can help you adjust them. The stick on temp and humidity analog gauges from the pet store are next to useless.

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...8/Acu-Rite.jpg

You want temps 82-84 cool side, 92-94 warm side and an ambient humidity of about 50-60% 24/7, no need to drop temps at night. You can help the snake shed by temporarily upping your humidity to about 60-70% during his entire shed cycle.

Hides - the ones you have while pretty may not be giving your snake the security it needs since they are open on both ends. If possible I'd see if they can be returned to the pet store for a store credit and replaced with simple plastic containers that are dark, heavy and secure. Things like bowls, plastic plant saucers, etc. Do a search for the word "hides" and you should be able to find lots of pics for example. Here's one I use for my bigger females...it's a heavy rubber dog dish that I pay about $4.00 for from a local feed and tack store. Note how tightly the snake fits....BP's feel most secure when they are stuffed very tightly into their hides...a hide should just fit the snake coiled up and have no spare room.

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...irseinHide.jpg

Think about whether the snake's tank is in a busy, high traffic or noisy part of your home. BP's have no external ears but are very reactive to vibrations and a lot of movement...they are very shy, nocturnal snakes. If a lot of loud bass music, stomping, running feet or people staring at them occur...they can stress and refuse to eat. You may need to relocate the snake a bit as they aren't a display type creature.

If possible contact a herp vet for either a fecal float (just take in feces not snake) or a full wellness check and a vent swab (if the snake isn't pooping). Pet store snakes can often carry internal parasites which will affect their willingness to feed.

The pet store may well have lied to you. They always say the snake just ate. It's a very typical sales tool and often not truthful. They also often tell you the snake is captive hatched when it is a recent import.

You mentioned hopper. I assume you mean a hopper mouse which is an awfully small meal for a BP of any decent size. You might want to try an adult mouse of a reasonable size either frozen/thawed, pre-killed or live. A search here will give you information on proper methods of each feeding style or please ask the memebers experienced in this for assistance. Each feeding style has it's right and wrong way to do it to be successful.

Your UTH is under the tank right? Not actually inside the tank under the substrate and carpet? You might want to rethink the carpet as a lot of people have found it traps bacteria from the snake's waste products. BP's don't generally burrow so a nice layer of aspen is more than enough and will allow heat to pass through it to the snake.

I personally wouldn't handle the snake at all until it feeds for at least 3 consecutive weeks with no problems then start with very short, very quiet 5 or 10 minute sessions.

Sorry for the book length post. Please feel free to ask any questions, express concerns, whatever...that's what we are here for.

frankykeno- thank you so much for your reply, you have made me a lot more aware to things that I didn't know and I have adjusted slightly. I'll tell you what I've done and answers to your questions.

As to your question about the hides and it being too open on both ends...as you can see theyre right up against the glass, so it makes as if its closed in on that end. I did a slight modification just now, where I put some folded up, black garbage bag on the side w/o the background. Now both hides appear as if they are completely closed off and more secure.

Thanks for recommending that thermometer, liek I said, I'll be going out in a few days to buy one. So, I'll know for sure if temps/humidity are the problems.

As for the tank being in a busy spot....it's in my basement. There's barely anyone down here except for me. I do play loud music all the time though (not blasting) but ya know...Also, the tank is in a spot where the snake can't easily see me. So it's almost always alone.

As for the petstore possibly lying to me....that could really be a possibility. BUT the thing is, I also got my bearded dragon from a pet store, which all the forums advised against (I always read these things, AFTER I get the animal...sigh) Anyway, she turned out to be in excellent condition and is a very healthy 11 month old lizard with a very nice weight and size to her. So, my point is, this snake may turn out to be the same way...and I have feeling it is healthy just be the behaviours it is exhibiting. I have a rough idea on how reptiles act when they are sick now, so I have at least some idea on what to look for, even if they are completely different species.

Well that's it for now...what do you all think? Oh and I'll remove the carpet again too. As for the mice, the live one I'm trying to feed is an adult mouse.

Don't worry handling your new snake is one of the first mistakes most new owners make (including me), so don't feel bad! Like they said...you haven't damaged your snake for life. You just have to give your new friend time and space to adjust to its new surroundings. I think it's probably one of the biggest challenges: leaving your brand new pet alone:O . In reality you're probably more stressed then your snake :D . Hang in there and throw any questions you might have our way. We'll help in any way we can.

Here's what I would do. Get your thermometers and hygrometers and make sure all your levels are right, or adjust them if they're off.

If the snake is still not using his hides, give him something small, dark, and secure instead.

Stop handling the snake. Not just cut down, totally stop. A week later, drop an appropriately sized live prey item into the tank. You might have better luck if you feed during night time hours. If the snake does not immediately go for it, put some food that the rodent can eat in the tank, then cover the tank so the snake will not be distracted by anything outside. Check on the snake frequently to be sure the rodent hasn't started chewing on him or anything. I would personally leave the rodent in there for around an hour before taking it out if the snake still has not eaten it.

If your snake did not eat, give him another week with absolutely no unnecessary handling. Only bother him to clean his cage, give hiim water, or adjust temps/humidity/etc. Try feeding him again in the same method as before. Perhaps use a brown mouse as opposed to white.

It takes a long time for a healthy snake to starve to death, so be patient with him while he acclimates, and again, do not handle him!

Yeah, follow their advice, just be patient and dont handle him. I had the same thing with my guy when i got him, I was freaking out and joined another forum, but i dont remember which one that was (it was a year ago).
Good luck with everything.

Amy

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Originally Posted by cubano07x

As to your question about the hides and it being too open on both ends...as you can see theyre right up against the glass, so it makes as if its closed in on that end. I did a slight modification just now, where I put some folded up, black garbage bag on the side w/o the background. Now both hides appear as if they are completely closed off and more secure.

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Welcome to the forum! You've received some great advice already. I would suggest though, that even though you closed off one end of the hides, that they really are too big for him to feel secure. When he's curled up in it, does it touch him on all sides and the top? If not - it's too big. Think SNUG! Here's a couple of hides that I use:

Baby Hide - a plastic flower pot saucer from WalMart for $.47 that I soldered an entrance in. The green hide is too big for this baby and has been replaced with another saucer hide:
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...ub/BabyTub.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...b/BabyTub2.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...b/PretzelA.jpg

These are the hides my juvies use. Pack of 3 bowls from Dollar Tree or Dollar General for $1 - again, entrance soldered:
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...aEnclosure.jpg

You said that he's constantly roaming and looking for ways to escape - that can also be a sign that he's not feeling very secure. A content ball python will stay in its hides most of the daylight hours, only venturing out at night. Of course, there are always exceptions, but constantly roaming is not normal ball python behavior.

Once you get him some nice tight hides, and he settles into them, after a week, offer a medium live mouse, in his enclosure, leaving all furniture in there. He'll likely ambush it from his hide if your temps are correct (as outlined in previous posts).

Update : Well I've taken everything you guys have said into consideration...I just removed the carpet under the substrate. I also just changed my hides...what I did was cut out the bottom of a black, plastic jug, made a lil entrance and turned it upside down. It's not that big, and just like everyone has been saying, seems pretty snug.

Now he's exploring the 2 hides and everything else in there. So, hopefully if it was a security issue, he'll be fine now. Now all I need is a hygrometer and I'll be set.

I'll keep filling you guys in on his status and when he eats. Thanks again everyone, you guys are awesome!

No problem glad to be a help!:)

Excellent adjustments! Those hides sound much more secure for your snake and secure snakes feel safer. Safety helps encourage good feeding responses. Once you have that Acu-Rite you can get a real handle on your temps, temp gradient, etc. That's often an issue and a simple adjustment of a few degrees can make all the difference in the world to your snake (feeding response, health, etc.).

A healthy BP won't be hurt by a few weeks of refusal while you get your husbandry tweaked. Remember though that any changes tend to stress the snake, even ones done for it's own best interest, so expect it may continue to refuse until everything is stable. Once you've got it all sorted out, give the snake a good week of no handling or messing with it other than basic cage maintenance then offer it the same food in the same feeding style the pet store said it took successfully. You can always try to change prey type or feeding method later once the snake is an established eater (if it's not a prey or feeding method you are okay with). Try offering prey after dark as BP's are nocturnal so most eat more aggressively in the night hours.

Biggest thing is don't worry or panic. You aren't the first to have a snake refuse to eat, you won't be the last...the vast majority of them get going at some point and turn into good solid feeders with no long term ill effect on the snake. Most of the ill effects are on us owners fretting and pacing till the snake finally decides that eating is a good thing LOL.

Do remember though if the refusal is due to a health issue or the snake is losing weight/very small/underweight, see your herp vet as quickly as possible. Nothing can replace the benefits you get from a good ongoing relationship with an experienced herp vet. :)

Another update: Well I finally went out and bought a new hygrometer/thermometer for the tank and here are my readings:

It's in the cool side and the temp is at 70F, while my humidity is at 67%...after I spray, it spikes up pretty high (80s but then after a few hours it settles down to the normal range)

Hot side is at 87F...inside his cave, it's even higher, in the 90s...which he goes into every so often, and I've already caught him switching back and forth between the 2 hides already!

So, seems like I have all those on lock down...now I'm just crossing my fingers for when I try offering him food on Sunday!

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It's in the cool side and the temp is at 70F, while my humidity is at 67%...after I spray, it spikes up pretty high (80s but then after a few hours it settles down to the normal range)

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Temps below 70 degrees can be DEADLY to ball pythons and will initally cause them to refuse food (as yours already has) and will ultimately result in a respitory infection that, left untreated, can kill the snake.

70 is too cold. You need to raise that to at least 80, 82-84 being ideal. The warm side of the tank should be 92-94.

Using a space heater to warm up the room will be much easier than trying to tweak a glass tank to stay warm in a cold room. Good luck!

In addition to what Brad has said....if your humidity is reading 67% all the time, then there is NO need or reason to spray. You actually might want to try and bring that overall humidity down a bit. 67% is good for shedding, but not necessarily good all the time.

Especially when his temps are low......70 degrees, 67% humidity, and refusing food....that's textbook potential for RI right there...

your tank looks like my 55gal... as far as substrate (coconut fiber) and background image. That's a 55gal that you have right? just curious anyways...you will definetly learn alot from being on here. I know I have

:rockon: