mouse cage question

I wasnt sure if this goes here or in caging, since its a cage question, but for feeders:P Anyway.... we're about to set up 2 tanks of mice, and i was planning on building a wire cage thing kinda like the lids on the lab tubs that some people use to hold the food, and just hang in in the tank. My question is, would there be any problem with using copper wire to make it with. If you're not following what i mean let me know and i can do a drawing of what i have in mind, but mainly i just need to know if copper would be a problem.

There may be someone here with first hand experience, but I would think that the ammonia in the urine would react badly with copper or brass. I don't really know if it will be much better, but I'm currently doing the same thing using hardware cloth, making hanging feeders for my mouse rack.

Steve

copper is toxic... you cannot use it for mice as they chew! :eek:

I just took a bunch of pics after finishing a modification to the rest of my rodent tubs I'll post when I get them up on my site. I agree that it probably isn't a good idea to use copper wire. I'm using 1/2" and 1/4" hardware cloth on my tubs.

Copper is a very soft wire so it wouldn't work against their constant chewing (neither will standard chicken wire). Go with hardware cloth from Home Depot or Lowe's for anything rodent related. You can get a pretty decent sized role of it in the fencing aisle for around $5.00.

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...ClothLabel.jpg

:carrot:I personally perfer to house my rodents in the freezer!! lmao

ya but they don't reproduce well that way!

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Originally Posted by recycling goddess

ya but they don't reproduce well that way!

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you must be doing something wrong then!

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Originally Posted by recycling goddess

ya but they don't reproduce well that way!

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If only they did!

I have found that 1/2" x 1/2" hardware cloth is actually too big for some mice, especially if they are small adult sized or hoppers that are everywhere at once. I had one small adult get her head stuck , got almost through, then decided to turn back around and got stuck into another hole. Poor thing was there for about 2 days(as I leave my mice ALONE for a week at a time, lucky her I came back to see if any had babies). So I pulled her out, and she was skinny but fine.

I would go with the 1/4" if you can and just use the 1/2" where the food will be.

1/4" for mice and 1/2" for rats. The mice can eat just fine through the 1/4" too. If by chance you can find 3/8" hardware cloth, you can use thise for both mice and rats with no problems.

-Evan

any pics steve?

Oh good point Evan and Becky about the 1/2" and mice. I only breed rats at this point so the 1/2" is perfect for them.

they can eat lab blocks through 1/4 inch?

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Originally Posted by piranhaking

they can eat lab blocks through 1/4 inch?

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Yep! :D

-Evan

Well I have a wild mouse living in my kitchen that is getting in through a crack that is no more than 1/4" so I figure they can manage LOL. Rotten thing is about to meet Mr. Mouse Trap. I can raise tons of my own feeder rats but man oh man do I hate a mouse loose in my house (dirty creatures they are!).

I'm the same way. I dont mind feeder mice or rats, but a wild one bothers me bad. I think the main thing that gets to me is you never know what they might have... I still havent had the nerve to mess with any wild snakes either, well, i havent had a chance to since ive been working with snakes, but i dont know if i could or not. Im just now getting to the point that I dont mind handling some of the smaller ones that are known to be kinda tempermental.

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Originally Posted by piranhaking

any pics steve?

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Here ya go.
The first pic has two versions. Still kind of a work-in-progress, trying to figure out the best design. The one that is hanging in the tub has a "stand" for access to water, but I haven't completely decided how to implement the water yet. The second pic is just the same feeder out of the tub. The third pic is one that I made for a 10 gal aquarium that has a hinged lid on it.

Steve

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil.../5/Feeder1.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil.../5/Feeder2.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil.../5/Feeder3.jpg

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Originally Posted by piranhaking

I'm the same way. I dont mind feeder mice or rats, but a wild one bothers me bad. I think the main thing that gets to me is you never know what they might have... I still havent had the nerve to mess with any wild snakes either, well, i havent had a chance to since ive been working with snakes, but i dont know if i could or not. Im just now getting to the point that I dont mind handling some of the smaller ones that are known to be kinda tempermental.

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I had a black rat snake last winter that I caught in my parents' workshop/greenhouse. Kind of a rescue/rehab. It was regurging anything it ate, and I treated it with Flagyl, and got it healthy. I never handled it much because I always had the intention of releasing it in the spring, which I did. I now have a wild caught bull snake that I caught at my ex-wife's house. I have him in a somewhat naturalistic vivarium (58 gal aquarium) in the living room. I've handled him a little, not much. Just so much trouble to get him out of that tank! Bull snakes are amazing animals! So very alert and aware of their surroundings. I was cleaning rat tubs in front of his tank the other day, and he was watching incredibly attentively.

Steve

thats about what i had in mind, although i was orginally thinking square, but that looks alot easier. I'll be working on a water idea to, so if i come up with anything ill let you know.

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Originally Posted by piranhaking

thats about what i had in mind, although i was orginally thinking square, but that looks alot easier. I'll be working on a water idea to, so if i come up with anything ill let you know.

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Thanks. On the round feeders, I take a glass jar or bottle (actually a green olive jar) to wrap the screen around, then stitch the sides together with wrapping wire from Radio Shack. Also, on the bottoms, for some I've cut a separate piece, and for some, I've cut strips vertically in the end and folded them in. Haven't really decided which is easier yet.

Steve

thanks for the details. I think i have an idea for the water bottle, but i'll have to make it first to be sure it works right and because im not sure exactly how to explain it.

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Originally Posted by piranhaking

thanks for the details. I think i have an idea for the water bottle, but i'll have to make it first to be sure it works right and because im not sure exactly how to explain it.

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I really want to use a gravity system for water, but I'm afraid its going to be a while before I can afford it. So in the meantime, I'll probably just hang bottles from the front edge of the tubs.

Steve

I believe it's Matt (Smulkin) who posted a pic of how he uses empty coke cans as water bottle chew protectors for those of us that have the water bottle actually inside the enclosure with the rodents. Nifty idea and cheap as dirt.

hoo-t you stole my idea! Just kidding and your doing it a bit different than what I do with my tubs. I posted a link in another thread but I made square holders and they attach to my tub lids so I can easily dump in more food or add water without opening the tub at all. I also have my water bottles IN the same holder. I put the water bottle in and then poor in the block food around it. No bottle chewing or pee all over it, easy access to add/change water/food.

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

I believe it's Matt (Smulkin) who posted a pic of how he uses empty coke cans as water bottle chew protectors for those of us that have the water bottle actually inside the enclosure with the rodents. Nifty idea and cheap as dirt.

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Great idea! I've actually made water bottle protectors in a similar fashion to the feeders that I posted. Extruded aluminum (rain gutter guard) works very well for this.

Steve

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Originally Posted by TekWarren

hoo-t you stole my idea! Just kidding and your doing it a bit different than what I do with my tubs. I posted a link in another thread but I made square holders and they attach to my tub lids so I can easily dump in more food or add water without opening the tub at all. I also have my water bottles IN the same holder. I put the water bottle in and then poor in the block food around it. No bottle chewing or pee all over it, easy access to add/change water/food.

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I saw your thread on that and started to post in it. This thread was covering pretty much the same subject, so I decided not to post in two threads.

The first feeder/waterer that I made is almost EXACTLY like yours! The difference being that I cut an opening in the side of the "basket" at the bottom, and slipped a food hopper made from metal rain gutter downspout. When I started making these, I realized I would have been better off not to have cut out the bottom, and just dump the food in! Then it WOULD have been exactly like yours!

Great minds???

Just a thought - What do you think about putting a divider down the middle to separate the food from the water bottle? Would that make it easier to remove/replace the bottle? That might necessitate making the whole thing a little bigger though.

Here's a pic of that first one that I did...

Steve

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil.../5/Feeder4.jpg

All your designs look so professional LOL, I just took four sections and clasped them together :P

At this point I'm not to worried about seperating the food and water bottle. I'm not filling my baskets all that full that it makes it a big deal to get the water bottle in and out. With mine I've only been puting about 2" or so worth of food in. This way I can kinda still keep an eye on how much they are eating. If I have to refill water I just nose the spicket through the block food and then stick it out the basket back at the level it was before. I can see where some sort of divider would definately be need though when supplying more food, in which case trying to get the bottle back down would be messy. I am not keeping alot of rats which is probably why I am not going through as much food in a tub.

Maybe you could do two smaller baskets? One that is just enough room to manuever the water bottle into so its protected and the other just for food? That may look a little funky though hrm...or your divider idea could work just as well without multiple baskets.

Automatic watering would solve alot of this! I will probably look into an inexpensive gravity watering system this winter. Then all it will be is a matter of running the line into the basket and having a removeble mount for the spicket to stick out of it rather than bulky bottles.

Finally, im getting around to posting pics of my feeder feeder :P


The first three are just pics, the fourth is a cut out diagram i will explain below it.
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...8/DSCN1865.JPG
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...8/DSCN1864.JPG
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...8/DSCN1863.JPG
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...age_772433.JPG

The colored lines are the places to cut. The reason it matters is because i fold the "extra" over to hold it together. The bottom needs to be cut like the one with the blue lines. The sides need to be cut like the one with the purple lines. The front and back need to be cut like the one with the green lines. The divider needs to be cut like the sides, and the top needs to be cut like the one with the red lines. When couting squares for your sizes ONLY COUNT FULL SQUARES not ones that are open on one side, because those will be bent over. Also, when bending the "flaps" bend toward the side where the other wire is not the other way, because it will break (the diagram in the bottom right corner should make more sense of that for you). The reason for the single "peg" in the front of the lid is to work as a latch.

When assembling, first attach the sides and the divider to the bottom. Then attach the front and back to the rest of the box (if you do front and back first you'll have a harder time getting the divider in). In my case the "pegs" on the back of the top just stick back into the holes and dont bend over, but in some situations they may need to and they would then work as a hinge. One more thing to note, the back needs to be longer than the front so it can be bent into a hanger for the rack. Also, when determining the height top to bottom of the rack, make sure that once the water bottle is in, that it wont touch the bedding (that drains it and makes a mess). That pretty well sums it up. If anyone has any questions or needs to see any more detailed pics let me know.

Oh excellent! Diagrams! I'm totally useless at figuring out how to construct something from just a photograph so thanks so much for posting this.

No problem. Glad i could help out.

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Originally Posted by hoo-t

I saw your thread ...

Just a thought - What do you think about putting a divider down the middle to separate the food from the water bottle? Would that make it easier to remove/replace the bottle? That might necessitate making the whole thing a little bigger though.

Here's a pic of that first one that I did...

Steve

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil.../5/Feeder4.jpg

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Just a quick note - I haven't been using this setup for a while. But, I just adopted a couple of female rats from the local Petco (the GOOD Petco ;) ) ,
and I wanted to quarantine them. So I put them in this tank with the feeder pictured. This tank is about 2 feet from my rat/mouse racks. Later that night, I was walking past and out of the corner of my eye, I saw something didn't look right on my mouse rack. I looked, and discovered one of the two new rats looking at me from the top of the mouse rack! She had gone INTO the feeder, up the shaft, and out the top! I currently have a screen wired down over the top, but I'm planning to pull the food hopper out, patch the hole, and put a divider in to prevent future escapes!

Steve

HAHA. I had trouble with them crawling into the food chamber too(from the top in my case). Thats why i have the lid. I also have a screen top in the tank, so no chance of escape....i think....:P Thanks for the warning though.

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Originally Posted by piranhaking

HAHA. I had trouble with them crawling into the food chamber too(from the top in my case). Thats why i have the lid. I also have a screen top in the tank, so no chance of escape....i think....:P Thanks for the warning though.

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Yeah, I just finished the mods. 1/2" mesh to patch the hole where the hopper slid through, and 1/4" mesh divider. That should keep the little buggers in. While I was at it, I used 1/4" mesh to make a hinged lid for the feeder/waterer to keep any strays OUT. I didn't bother putting a latch on the cover, just gravity closure. I'll add a latch if I have any problems.

Steve

you'll probaby have problems unless it either sits extremely flat, or is very very close to the top of the tanks lid. I lost one that way over the weekend. I hadnt latched it, and one crawled in the water side and died.

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Originally Posted by piranhaking

you'll probaby have problems unless it either sits extremely flat, or is very very close to the top of the tanks lid. I lost one that way over the weekend. I hadnt latched it, and one crawled in the water side and died.

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My hopper is attached to the screen top, and opens only on the outside. So now that the "gutter hopper" has been removed and the hole patched, the only way anybody could get in is if they first got out! :D But, that HAS happened once or twice!

Steve

Oh, i see now. I didnt notice the whole thing is attached to the lid like that. I might redo mine that way, get some 1/4 inch cloth and make a tank lid and just mount my existing feeder to it.

I guess I am going to have to take pics and post of my new mouse racks. ;) I am getting a little jealous of everyone else posting. :D

well post some then. never hurts to have a few new ideas driftin around.