Choices, Choices..

Oh, the All Ohio Reptile Show is coming up. Mom said I could get some sort of small lizard. We've already ruled out cresties [too jumpy] and leos [too fragile-looking], and my mom rather likes beardies, as do I.

What do you all think?

I'd like to invest in one of those one day. I say go for it! :gj:

i love my beardie. But if you want some cons for your list, they eat a LOT, and they require special lighting and heat bulbs.

But beardies definitely ROCK! :) They were my first reptile.

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Originally Posted by Slithers

i love my beardie. But if you want some cons for your list, they eat a LOT, and they require special lighting and heat bulbs.

But beardies definitely ROCK! :) They were my first reptile.

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A lot, eh? I get paid minimum wage.. and ten hours a week. Would live or those freeze dried/"fried in the can to ensure juices stay inside" num nums be sufficient and/or cheaper than live prey? Or do beardies like to see their critters move?

well, some beardies eat those dead ones. but i feed live. I buy 1000 crickets every 2 weeks...its cheaper in bulk.

Also, mixed veggies is a major part of their adult diet.

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Originally Posted by resisted

A lot, eh? I get paid minimum wage.. and ten hours a week. Would live or those freeze dried/"fried in the can to ensure juices stay inside" num nums be sufficient and/or cheaper than live prey? Or do beardies like to see their critters move?

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Baby beardies need live food on a regular basis...crickets, various worms, etc. When they get older, you can cut down on the bugs and offer a diet more focussed on fruits and veggies. You still need to offer some crickets or something, though. My beardie is almost three years old now, and gets crix once a week...he LOVES chasing them!!

This website has some excellent resources for learning how to feed beardies and what is or is not good for them...as well as the rest of their care aspects:


http://www.beautifuldragons.503xtreme.com/home.html

I am one or two pay checks closer to getting a Beardie (car parts are more vital). :cool:

use roaches as staple food. i use lobster roaches. they breed like crazy and you'll never have to pay for another bunch. just give then a month or two to get started and you'll have plenty.

for UV lighting i know keepers that have bred generations without using any. just white light heat bulbs during the day. i personally think UV bulbs are a scam. one person on another forum has tested the output of them with a UV meter and it was very minimul. not even close to the UV outside in the sun during the day.

Now unless you are talking about monitors, Beardeds definitely need some sort of UVB exposure. If not, they cannot process the calcium into D3, and will get MBD. Also, the fluorescent tubes are junk and produce little to no UVB, and usually aren't bright enough to make for a happy Beardie. Now, the mercury vapor bulbs from ReptileUV.com are awesome, and you actually have to make sure they are far enough away from your animal or they could get overdosed on UVB(yay retinal damage...).

Go read on www.reptileuv.com and find the comparison charts for the fluorescents and other mercury vapor bulbs. The MegaRays are awesome bulbs and can't be beat for Beardeds and other sun-loving reptiles(not to mention they are cheap and last a LONG time).

i am not talking about monitors. the person that did the test on the "reptile UV bulbs" owns and adult bearded dragon and hasnt used UV at all. ive seen pictures of the animal and it is completely healthy. the person that bred the generations of bearded dragons didnt use any UV bulbs either. i aven't seen pictures of them, though, because it was years ago.

If you are looking for an easier lizard that will not require as much care as beardeds, I would look into anything Sceloporus...i.e. Crevice spiny lizards, emerald swifts, fence lizards.....they are all great to keep, stay smaller so they require less food and space, and are not as pricy as most other lizards.

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Originally Posted by mr~python

i am not talking about monitors. the person that did the test on the "reptile UV bulbs" owns and adult bearded dragon and hasnt used UV at all. ive seen pictures of the animal and it is completely healthy. the person that bred the generations of bearded dragons didnt use any UV bulbs either. i aven't seen pictures of them, though, because it was years ago.

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I know what you are talking about.....LOL....been reading Frank Rete's posts on Kingsnake too much ;)

....this kinda stuff is somewhat still in the theroretical phase IMO....light brightness being more important than UV light...all that good stuff. Once a few more big breeders document what they are doing, we should see if this stuff is really as good as everyone believes :)

....but for now and for beardeds I would use what is proven and that would mean using UVB :)

im not talking bout Frank Retes. personally i think some of his theories are way out left field and i dont go on kingsnake monitor forum at all anymore. im talking about about 2 people on a few other forums that keep bearded dragons.

I would not recommend to others something that you do not know for a fact.
For now, it has been proven that UVB is necessary. You have NOT proven that it is optional. Provide some support, some proof before providing advice such as "You do not need UV bulbs for your bearded dragon".

As others have stated, UVB IS, in fact, necessary.

i just did prove it. i know of people that keep and breed bearded dragons with GREAT success without the use of any UV bulbs. how is that not proving that it is not necessary?? i think some people the reptile hobby dont understand to not look to high tech tests on UV output in bulbs, etc., etc. and to look at the animals themselves. its common sense!

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Originally Posted by mr~python

for UV lighting i know keepers that have bred generations without using any. just white light heat bulbs during the day. i personally think UV bulbs are a scam. one person on another forum has tested the output of them with a UV meter and it was very minimul. not even close to the UV outside in the sun during the day.

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OK....who is it you know that have bred generations WITHOUT using any uv? I cant tell ya now, I have NEVER EVER heard of anyone who breeds and sells healthy beardies to not have any uv at all... thats just nuts.... but I would still like to know who does this so I may speak with them about thier rediculous notion of not having uv on beardies... would love to hear thier scientific data and acquire it for my review....

Marshall, please do not ever, recommend that someone with or wanting a beardie to not buy the appropriate lighting. I have several beardeds, I can tell you this, they DO REQUIRE uv... there is no way around that if you want a healthy beardie..however, if you want a dead beardie..go ahead, dont provide it any uv...

PERSONAL EXPERIENCE: I have a certain family member, who bought beardies, swore that they did not need uv..guess what, they died b/c of MBD. Even with appropriate supplimentation.... however, without uv, they were unable to produce vitamin d3 sufficiently..which means they do not matabolize calcium correctly, leading to MBD.

Mr~python,

you are only digging your own grave.
Just please stop now. Saying that you know of some guy that doesnt use UV bulbs is NOT providing any proof.
It is just common sense not to open your mouth when you don't know what you are talking about.
Once again, please do not go around spreading misinformation without proof and/or documentation...someone might actually listen to you. Whats next? Snakes dont really need any heat? They arent really coldblooded?

If you are going to contradict a longstanding commonly accepted truth such as this, you have to bring more to the table than "I know some people that keep beardies with great success without UV bulbs"

Not a bash, just a request. Dont give advice if you dont know what you are talking about. How many beardies do YOU have?

none, i have no beardies. thats why i never spoke of things that i have done with them. i spoke of what i know other successful keepers and breeders have done.
the keeper that bred them posted in this thread http://www.varanus.nl/forum1/viewtopic.php?id=324

im not digging any grave, just discussing.

Marshall, just b/c he says he bred "crap loads of them years ago" does not mean anything.. heck, I could go around saying I have bred "crap loads of komodos years ago" and it dont neccessarily mean anything. Personally, Marshall, I think you should consider the source of that info as being un-reliable.

IME Marshall, dragons DO NEED uv. See my post above outlining my experience.

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Originally Posted by mr~python

i just did prove it. i know of people that keep and breed bearded dragons with GREAT success without the use of any UV bulbs. how is that not proving that it is not necessary?? i think some people the reptile hobby dont understand to not look to high tech tests on UV output in bulbs, etc., etc. and to look at the animals themselves. its common sense!

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no... you did not prove anything! - you are an intelligent person marshall... please don't pass on misinformation like this.

there are some good information links on beardies on my "build your own enclosure" site... here's a link:

http://www.timelessspirit.com/enclosure.html

so to the links page for some great info!

personally i would recommend a leopard gecko for a first lizard... much easier to care for.

thank you guys for providing the links. i appreciate it.

i would love to show you guys the link to the keeper that ran the tests but i cant find it, lol! he knows all about the bulbs themselves. i remember him mentioning you can get the bulbs from the manufactureer for 3-5 dollars. i will consider the success with UVB that people have had with beardeds but i will also consider the success people have had without them. i take everything i read with a grain of salt.

i may be wrong but i think what marshall is saying is that the uv bulbs arent giving much uv out.

and yes bds need uv

hey mr-python knows a guy who does it. isn't that scientific proof enough...


i know i guy whose anaconda gave birth to an assortment of GTPs, BPs, BCIs and much more... isn't that scientific enough for you people...:carrot:

just kidding guys

but resisted, you should go with monkey tail skinks!!! those things are sooo cute, don't grow too large and are vegetarian.

i'm not sure of specific care but i was told it's pretty easy. look into it...

but i'm sure whatever you get will be great!

Thanks for the help and argument, guys!

I ended up getting a little Pictus gecko. His name is Winston and he's bitty. :D

congrats and you know what i'm gonna say next....


















https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil.../7/useless.gif

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Originally Posted by bigballs

hey mr-python knows a guy who does it. isn't that scientific proof enough...

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hey, Adam knows a couple guys that have been to Africa and have observed that ball pythons do not burrow, but use other animal burrows. i guess Adams lieing isnt he? i mean, since he cant prove it himself and he didnt make these observations he must be lieing and it cannot mean anything at all, right? WRONG.

im telling you what i know other keepers have observed with their bearded dragons and what i know about *most* "UV" bulbs on the market today. just because i haven't made these observations mysef does NOT mean these observations have not been made. ok, bigballs??

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Originally Posted by bigballs

hey mr-python knows a guy who does it. isn't that scientific proof enough...


i know i guy whose anaconda gave birth to an assortment of GTPs, BPs, BCIs and much more... isn't that scientific enough for you people...:carrot:

just kidding guys

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marshall, he said he was just kidding... interesting how you left that out of your quote of his post! :colbert: now go to your room... no chocolate covered oreos for you! :chew:

i would have kept it but it was right below "i know i guy whose anaconda gave birth to an assortment of GTPs, BPs, BCIs and much more... isn't that scientific enough for you people... " so i left it out. it was also for the other members who said those people observations were useless since i stated them and i couldn't prove them.

well marshall, i think you are going to have to agree to disagree cause you are not going to convince people to discontinue using UV lighting with beardies. you have a right to your opinion... but we've all heard it now... and it's time to celebrate resist's new critter and wait for some pics!

lol, i hear ya Aleesha! now im gonna have to google pictus gecko because ive seemed to have forgotten what they are.:rolleyes:

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil.../7/useless.gif

My mommy has the digital camera.. :(

hey sorry mr-python for the sarcasm but i was just kidding.


there is not always need to experience something first hand to know something, like touching a hot iron and getting burned, but if someone on the net says, "i know a guy who does this...", im not going to automatically believe a statement written by a guy i do not know about another guy i do not know.

just sayin provide some evidence or proof or something....:sabduel:

oh and thanks recycling goddess understanding the joke:carrot:

i may not be funny but at least someone got it....

i guess...

oh ya... i got it :) i sure did - uhuh :D