Probably a dumb question, but here goes.

When reading about sources of frozen feeders, i hear alot of complaints about the mice/rats having feces or urine on them, and implying that it makes them unhealthy for the snakes. We are talking about animals that will be eatin whole here. I am more or less positive that any mouse eatin by a snake is going to have some amount of feces/urine in its body when it's eaten, i dont see any way around that. It's kinda like a cream filled doughnut, the cream is in the middle, so whats it matter if theres a little on the outside to. What difference does it make if there's a little on it from a safety perspective. Granted i do see why people may not want to handle a soiled mouse so if they dislike them for that reason i understand that, but in a post i read earlier someone made a comment along the lines of, thats not what i want to be feeding to my normal balls, much less morphs, refering to mice that had a little waste on them. Is there something im missing here?

I don't see that there would be any problem there. As long as you thaw them correctly and long enough to where there isn't a urine popsicle in their bladder.

I'm just guessing here that dirty frozen feeders isn't so much about the issue of your snake ingesting a small amount of rat urine or feces but more about the buyer being concerned that the supplier of these frozen feeders isn't packaging them in a reasonably professional manner. These are rodents so of course things aren't going to be to the standards of a meat packing plant but opening a package of frozen rodents that are covered in feces and have parts broken off them wouldn't impress me one bit.

Yeah, I'm with Jo on this one. A shipment being covered in urine and feces is a red-flag for unhealthy prey animals to begin with. They probably won't make your snake sick, but they may not be the best source for complete nutrition, either. And I wouldn't want to support a business that keeps its rodents in that kind of condition...even if they are "just feeders"...that's just cruel.

I see the point of worrying about the health/conditions of the animals, but if im not mistaken, dont they often relieve themselfs as they're passing... I thought that was where it usually came from. But, then again, i guess there's no way to know if it came from poor conditions, or was put out as they died. I guess i see the problem looking at it what way. Good point.

well if it isn't from them "relieving themselves" when they die... then it could be from their living conditions.

when urine and feces are inside the body they do not have the same levels of bacteria as they do once they leave the body! if the urine and feces have been on the body for a period of time before the animal is euthanized... then there would be bacteria growth to be concerned about IMO

When a rodent is euthanized along with most animals, they urinate and poo all over the place. Most rodent distributors aren't going to take the time to wash them all down before freezing.

i've never had any frozen rodents with feces or urine on them jake. not once.

they are always lined up nicely and clean. :)

Well I can tell you the frozen feeders we used to purchase from The Mouse Factory never came covered in any waste products. They were clean as a whistle and lined up perfectly frozen on the styrofoam trays. It was actually part of why I always recommend them. That and the fact that they shipped so quickly and packaged those frozen feeders as nicely as I've ever seen anything shipped (well except Wysocki but he's the king of super shipping LOL).

None of mine were "covered" in urine or feces but there was some on a few of the mice and rats for sure.

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Originally Posted by piranhaking

It's kinda like a cream filled doughnut, the cream is in the middle, so whats it matter if theres a little on the outside to.

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well i am still unsure on this comment it is gross if you think about it, but still funny as hell. i think i will use it in my sig, lol,

as far as the question, i would go with the majority here. unhealthy on the outside probably means unhealthy on the inside as well. i don't purchase frozen rats, i do the deed before they feed, but i would think twice if i noticed waste on the outside af the rodents.

well i dont think that feces of any sort would make much of a problem. Especially because freezing is good to kill bacteria so i would figure a frozen rodent covered in feces would have less bacteria than a live one. And theres been certain times when my snake literaly squezees the crap out of my live mice as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by piranhaking

It's kinda like a cream filled doughnut, the cream is in the middle, so whats it matter if theres a little on the outside to.

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It was 12:47 in the morning when i wrote that, i was a little tired and that was the best i could come up with:rolleyes: . Good point about freezing killing the bacteria though. It really doesnt matter much though now, because im only making one order(hopefully), then im freezing my own from now on. I'll post some pics soon of the CO2 chamber im about to make. I got the plans off of another site that is already linked here somewhere (its the one that uses vinegar and baking soda) but i've improved the design a little bit, and made it one freestanding unit instead of having seperate parts hooked together with hoses. I'll be picking up the parts tomorrow morning:D . It doses the CO2 in low levels to begin with to put them to sleep peacefully, then once they are out quickly raises it to finish the job. They've done their research and found out how much volume of gas comes from the reaction, and adjusted the amounts of the ingredents you use to get the levels right. I'll let everyone know how it goes.

I believe when urine and poo is outside the body that promotes bacteria but not inside the body. And also on the inside you cannot smell and taste it, so the snake will eat it. But who knows how long poo has been outside of a body of a dead rat when it was package or when they shipped them who know sif they unthawed for a few hours and the poo and piss collected bacteria.