Did I end up getting a female pastel from the tampa show?

Well I got my pastel probed last night by Bob at the herp hobby shop in oldsmar, florida (tampa bay). He popped it and saw no hemipenes at first and when he probed it he still couldn't tell me... He gave me some kind of term "teensie" "twinsey" something along those terms...He told me after popping and the beggining of probing "looks like you got a girl" ...and then at the end of the probe he was like Uhhh... I'm going to bet its a male. Now I believe he was just upset because I didn't get a pastel from him, and maybe a little because I got a female pastel for $150? and he was in denial or something? I don't know.
He told me to come back in 6 months and he could tell me for sure.

I spoke to bob hammond www.bobhammondreptiles.com where I got the snake from and he probed it but told me he could have probed it wrong and he wasn't guaranteeing on the sex but that he got it from Greg Graziani....I don't know.

I'm going to find out for sure next week when my buddy neil golli comes back to town. www.gollireptiles.com
He's going to probe it for me for free. And I have faith in his probing.

Either way Male or Female I am happy with my snake. :)
It's got very beautiful color and is so docile its crazy. My girlfriend and I have been holding it alot and its lossed most of its head shyness. Seem's to actually likes it when you pet his head top/under

Question for you - you just got this guy on Sunday, right? From several of your posts, it sounds like your girlfriend has handled it so much that it's lost its head shyness.


Do you not acclimate your snakes for the recommended week with no handling?

I've been trying... Its just hard. :oops:

I know i'm going to hear it now...

I know your suppose to wait a week...other wise it can get stressed and may go off feed...Its just so hard to see that thing and not wanna pick it up.

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It's got very beautiful color and is so docile its crazy. My girlfriend and I have been holding it alot and its lossed most of its head shyness. Seem's to actually likes it when you pet his head top/under

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These are actually characteristics of a sick/stressed ball python. Good luck dude....

Awesome!

I guess i'll just hold off for a few weeks. Or until feeding time to take him out to feed him

Its not like he sits there and lets you pet his head all day long. Only for a good couple strokes and then he moves on.... but sure maybe he is stressed. He's eating without hesitation.

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Originally Posted by djslurp1200

I guess i'll just hold off for a few weeks. Or until feeding time to take him out to feed him

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Why would you take him out to feed him?

All of my snakes are healthy and 3 out of the 4 love chin rubs. also 3 out of my 4 will alow you to open there mouths. but it took alot of work and alot of time to get them this way. none of them are head shy not even my 5 month old and all vet checks came back normal and 100% healthy.

EDIT: with the proper handeling, time, and trust you can get a bp to not be head shy and work well for vet checks with out freaking out. it just takes a lot of handeling and time.

and each have gone through the proper 2 week setteling in prossess, besides Lady. she traviled from CA to GA when I first got her and is my best feeder. but not all snakes will do that.. she is just very odd.

i DON'T believe in feeding in the tank. Don't want him to associate my hand with food everytime i reach in.

thats just me

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Originally Posted by djslurp1200

i DON'T believe in feeding in the tank. Don't want him to associate my hand with food everytime i reach in.

thats just me

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But why would he? Do you reach in to change his water? To clean his enclosure? Just to take him out for a "visit?" That's three other reasons for your hand to be in there...versus one time per week for feeding. By your logic, he would also associate being picked up with getting fed and may get aggressive by being picked up. And if you're convinced he may associate your hand with feeding anyhow, why not use tongs to drop the rodent in...which is safer than using your hands anyhow, if you have an aggressive feeder.

Just some of my thoughts on the matter...

I don't know, I was just told that feeding in the tank can associate that. You make a good point and I see where your coming from I guess I just never really thought about it too seriously...All of my snakes do feed aggresively. I'm not afraid of getting bit but, I guess I just want to take precautions? I dunno...

each person feeds the way they want. some snakes if you feed them right ontime every week do well with being fed in the same tub/tank. then you have my snake, Lady who thinks every day is feeding day and will some times try and take your hand.


just depends on the snake I guess lol

BTW sorry for typos....I'm typing with one hand... I got bit badly yesterday and my fingers are all F ed up

Bit by your ball python?

Run the logic through....

If one would expect a snake to expect to be fed each and every time you reached in the cage as a result of being fed in its cage once a week, you could make an equally convincing arguement that a snake would expect to be fed each and every time it was removed from its cage as a result of being removed from its cage once a week and fed at that time.

I feed all of mine in their tubs and in years of keeping them and reaching in their tubs hundred of times...I've been bit once or twice. They know what food is, and what food is not.

Do whatever works for you and your snake. If feeding in a seperate enclosure works and your snake eats week after week without any breaks, keep doing what you do. Just don't go taking a stance that feeding inside a cage causes aggression, because, that's just not true at all.

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Originally Posted by djslurp1200

I don't know, I was just told that feeding in the tank can associate that. You make a good point and I see where your coming from I guess I just never really thought about it too seriously...All of my snakes do feed aggresively. I'm not afraid of getting bit but, I guess I just want to take precautions? I dunno...

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I'm not totally taking a stance saying that it causes aggression. I'm just going by what I was told. Geez

There is absolutely nothing wrong with feeding in a seperate enclosure/tub. I did it for a long time and on the off chance I am using live prey I always use a secondary bare tub, to me it seems safer. If the rodent has to be removed there is nothing to get in your way or for it to hide in, on the same token the reptile will have an easy "eyes on" with no distractions.


Edit: if you regularly interact with the animal in its tub it shouldn't cause the aggressivenes you are being told. You may run into times when the animal is defensive but ANY animal will do that. If your here to learn your in the right place, sorry some of it seems to be shoved down your throat...it is not intended that way.

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Originally Posted by djslurp1200

i DON'T believe in feeding in the tank. Don't want him to associate my hand with food everytime i reach in.

thats just me

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This isn't taking a stance?

Not trying to ruffle anyone's feathers, its all good, but just wanted to make sure I covered this base....

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Originally Posted by djslurp1200

Bit by your ball python?

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no I was helping some people who moved in down the street with there 6 foot + retic and the snake got scared or something and latched on. we tryed warm water but that didnt work so the guy used vadka.

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Originally Posted by TekWarren

There is absolutely nothing wrong with feeding in a seperate enclosure/tub. I did it for a long time and on the off chance I am using live prey I always use a secondary bare tub, to me it seems safer.

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So you do feed or don't feed in a seperate enclosure now?

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If the rodent has to be removed there is nothing to get in your way or for it to hide in, on the same token the reptile will have an easy "eyes on" with no distractions.

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I don't agree at all. Ball pythons by nature are ambush predators and are acutely designed to nailing rodents with plenty of "environmental interference." They are very in tune with their surroundings, and altering their surroundings (by removing the snake from them) may cause their feeding response to turn off.

I was told that they COULD. Now I understand where you are coming from but, I just don't like doing it. Of course I reach in there to clean and change water and such but I just don't want him to think he's even gonna get fed in his cage. It's just me...I said I didn't want him to associate my hand with food because I was going by a pet store owner's comment a few years ago when I worked there with him. That is what he told me so I went by it. But right now I have a cardboard box that I put him in, I stun the rat to where he's just barely twitching and then I place him in. Half the time they take the rat in 3 seconds or less. Sometimes before they hit the bottom of the box.

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But right now I have a cardboard box that I put him in, I stun the rat to where he's just barely twitching and then I place him in.

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A common practice by many beginners in the hobby. Its simply just not necessary. A "stunned" rat can come back very quick, in a very defensive mode, and cause damage to your snake. A live rat that is dropped in an enclosure with a comfortable, content, secure-feeling ball python will never see it coming.

One of my other snake will only eat if the mouse /rat is trying to hide or is hidden, he will hunt for it. if i place the rat near him he wont touch it. so I hide the rat/mouse so he can find it. he actualy has a better feeding responce if i place it in different parts of the tub each time... he really seems to get in to feeding when I hide it and he has to really look for it.

each one of my snakes eats differently. my huge male will not eat unless he is able to hunt/ strike from above the rodent so I have to place him on top of the tub lid and place the rodent inside the tub.

I know that when I was researching care for my snake before I bought him, most of the internet sites with care sheets and information recomended putting the snake in another tank/tub for feeding to prevent aggresivness.
I leave mine in his tank though because I think that its more comfortable for him, its his territory. He hasnt tried to bite my hand thinking it was food yet, and its been about 5 weeks.

i guess i won't stun anymore then

I also got a male pastel at the Tampa show from Alice, he ate about 3 days later with out hesitation but I havent held him...tempting? Yes, because he is out checking out his new home all night, but I have done a good job on holding off.

Also I used to feed my snakes (about 5 years ago) in a diffrent tub, but now that we have 6...I just feed them in there homes, the pros out way the cons in this situation....I find its less stressful for them, as long as your in there cleaning, checking temps. and handling they wont think your reaching in to feed them every time they see your hand.

My rats i have to stun. they are VERY nasty. I dont want my babies getting ate up. I place mine in a paper bag and knock the bag on the wall. (with mice this will kill them) they are very limp but still breathing. but i only do that for Baby because he like is food still breathing. every one else gets P/K or F/T

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Originally Posted by jessie_k_pythons

they are very limp but still breathing

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lucky rats.

-adam

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Originally Posted by jessie_k_pythons

My rats i have to stun. they are VERY nasty. I dont want my babies getting ate up. I place mine in a paper bag and knock the bag on the wall. (with mice this will kill them) they are very limp but still breathing. but i only do that for Baby because he like is food still breathing. every one else gets P/K or F/T

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I have a few that like to do the dive and kill way, they get up high as far as they can and jump on it.....but I can say I will not stun there food.
I work to hard to feed and care for the mice/rats and treat them humainly to crak there sculls on the wall.

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Originally Posted by jessie_k_pythons

My rats i have to stun. they are VERY nasty. I dont want my babies getting ate up. I place mine in a paper bag and knock the bag on the wall. (with mice this will kill them) they are very limp but still breathing. but i only do that for Baby because he like is food still breathing. every one else gets P/K or F/T

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What goes around comes around, I guess...

Sorry, I just have the utmost respect for the role feeders play in our hobby. Without them, we don't have squat.

ha ha ha
EDIT the "ha ha ha" was for Adam

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

I don't agree at all. Ball pythons by nature are ambush predators and are acutely designed to nailing rodents with plenty of "environmental interference." They are very in tune with their surroundings, and altering their surroundings (by removing the snake from them) may cause their feeding response to turn off.

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I completey agree ... a bare cage is the absolute worst way to feed live to a ball python ... no cover for the snake to protect it's body, no point of ambush, no place to the rat to try and hide to feel safe ... stress for the snake, stress for the rodent ... that's the type of situation where bad things can happen.

As far as feeding in the cage or out of the cage ... who cares, I sure don't ... if your ball python will eat GREAT! ... but, if you're telling people that feeding inside of the cage will make (or has a chance to make) your ball python more aggressive ... you're a tool ... anyone with any real experience with these animals can easily prove otherwise ... feed how you want, but don't promote the horrible myths that exist in this hobby that lead a lot of new keepers down the wrong road of frustration.

Please note, my opinions are only related to BALL PYTHONS!!!

Also, if you're making up tall tales and posting them on a message board to make yourself look important, you're a tool as well (just thought I'd add that one cause I like it) :D

-adam

I like Tool :D But not tools....:mad:

With my rats, Im thankful for have breedable rats not but each is so agressive that I have no other way of feeding them to my snakes. I dont know what this rat breeder did to theis rats but they see a snake and they stand up to the snake a try to bite it. my other boy is being treated for a nasty bite on the nose. he will only eat if the rat comes up to his nose then he strikes. well the rat came up to his nose and took a chunk out of him... poor boy.

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I completey agree ... a bare cage is the absolute worst way to feed live to a ball python ... no cover for the snake to protect it's body, no point of ambush, no place to the rat to try and hide to feel safe ... stress for the snake, stress for the rodent ... that's the type of situation where bad things can happen.

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This is good stuff...and I would use that concept as sufficient to "take a stance" that feeding in a seperate container is best kept for the short-bus keepers. But maybe I don't know 100 either!

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Originally Posted by TheAudOne

I like Tool :D

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I just might have a new quote for my sig. :love:

-adam

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

and I would use that concept as sufficient to "take a stance" that feeding in a seperate container is best kept for the short-bus keepers.

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I don't care so much about that ... what works for one, might not work for others ... as long as the snake is eating ... BFD (that's big, deal, and something else for the slow ones).

There are just so many BS myths in this hobby that get circulated and re-circulated by people that don't even have the experience to know if what they're talking about is even true ... that's what I will stand up on my soap box over ... not the way someone chooses to care for their animal if it's working for them.

-adam

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Originally Posted by jessie_k_pythons

With my rats, Im thankful for have breedable rats not but each is so agressive that I have no other way of feeding them to my snakes. I dont know what this rat breeder did to theis rats but they see a snake and they stand up to the snake a try to bite it. my other boy is being treated for a nasty bite on the nose. he will only eat if the rat comes up to his nose then he strikes. well the rat came up to his nose and took a chunk out of him... poor boy.

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Do you think the fact that your snakes are being bitten by so-called aggressive rats and those of us that feed live, inside their enclosures never have any bites, has ANYTHING to do with the method of feeding that YOU are practicing? I mean, just step outside of everything for a second and take a look at it. I think that you viewing the rats as overly aggressive is clouding your perception on what the problem actually could be.

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

I just might have a new quote for my sig. :love:

-adam

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Sheesh...Adam stealing all my idea's. Dont worry you can have it :wuv:

And yes when we got our first BP 5 years ago, everyone was quick to tell us "Take him out to feed him" he was the worst feeder to date, but it was so pushed that feeding him in his home would make him aggresive we were scared to do it. And our Miami Phase was also super mean. Now that we have the 6 pack of BP's, I couldnt imagine feeding them outside of there homes.

Feeding in a seperate enclosure may work for a ball python but not for other types of snakes.


Try moving a retic in feed mode back into his cage. You are asking for trouble.

As long as you are cleaning water, changing substrate, handling the snake, there is no need to feed outside the enclosure.

It's not as if the only time your hand is in there is when feeding and you never put your hand in there any other time.

If you are worried about bites, get a hook and use that o let the snake know it's not feeding time.

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

Do you think the fact that your snakes are being bitten by so-called aggressive rats and those of us that feed live, inside their enclosures never have any bites, has ANYTHING to do with the method of feeding that YOU are practicing? I mean, just step outside of everything for a second and take a look at it. I think that you viewing the rats as overly aggressive is clouding your perception on what the problem actually could be.

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:clap:

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

There are just so many BS myths in this hobby that get circulated and re-circulated by people that don't even have the experience to know if what they're talking about is even true ... that's what I will stand up on my soap box over ... not the way someone chooses to care for their animal if it's working for them.

-adam

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Amen to that! "overnight experts" irk me to no end!:mad:

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Also, if you're making up tall tales and posting them on a message board to make yourself look important, you're a tool as well (just thought I'd add that one cause I like it) :D

-adam

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I like it too :rockon:

As for the original topic at hand, besides the points that Adam and a couple others have made, the only things I will add are : I sure as hell dont want to pick up any of my balls when they are still in feeding mode (which you would have to do if feeding outside its home) and I dont want to pick them up when theyve just consumed a meal (and risk a potential regurge)....Im out

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Originally Posted by Uncle Festae

Amen to that! "overnight experts" irk me to no end!:mad:

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Hey, it's *Instant Expert* over here! Do a search, geeze...;)

If your male was probed as a male, and then probed as a female, and then guessed to be a male again... if it really is a female, wouldn't it be horribly ripped inside by now?

Also, I feed both in the snakes' enclosures and out. I usually like to clean enclosures on the same day I feed (unless they made a big mess in there before feeding day), so I introduce live prey into their enclosure, wait for the snake to strike and constrict, and then move them to another area so I can clean their enclosure while they are eating. When they are finished, I put them back in their clean enclosure. Any thoughts on this?

and what do you think MY problem might be?
EDIT: I started feeding F/T and P/K because You guys were the ones who told me that rats can be agressive, and that is the best way to go with rats.
now that I'm feeding pk and ft you guys get on me .... I dont get this at all!

so now your saying I;m wrong for stunning my rats or buying f/t or for even (got forbid) pk them so my snakes dont get bit.

I think Im done with this post and this thread because I feel like I cand do anything right in some of your eyes and i feel like crap so I'm leaving now.

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Originally Posted by Rapture

If your male was probed as a male, and then probed as a female, and then guessed to be a male again... if it really is a female, wouldn't it be horribly ripped inside by now?

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I wondered that, too.

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Also, I feed both in the snakes' enclosures and out. I usually like to clean enclosures on the same day I feed (unless they made a big mess in there before feeding day), so I introduce live prey into their enclosure, wait for the snake to strike and constrict, and then move them to another area so I can clean their enclosure while they are eating. When they are finished, I put them back in their clean enclosure. Any thoughts on this?

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If that's working for you and they're eating regularly...I think it's great. :)

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so I introduce live prey into their enclosure, wait for the snake to strike and constrict, and then move them to another area so I can clean their enclosure while they are eating. When they are finished, I put them back in their clean enclosure. Any thoughts on this?

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How about this...you try and predict what our responses will be.

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

How about this...you try and predict what our responses will be.

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If I could do that, then I wouldn't ask in the first place. If you don't want to give your opinion about the question I asked, then that's fine. The question is directed toward anyone who would like to be helpful.