Breeding for Size?

Is there anyone out there breeding for size? Can it be done? I know that the Dog market does breeding for size.

Here is my interest. I know that BP get to between 4ft and 6ft. Apartment dwellers who want a small pet, (can't have a dog or cat, don't want to work hard enough to have an aquarium, and don't like birds) find snakes perfect. However, a 36x18 aquarium is rather large investment in space.

A snake that would grow to a max of three feet would fit in a 20 gal regular tank, and would be a tremendous find.

Since BPs are soooooo easy to take care of, and are really gentle -- could they be breed for a smaller size?

Is there any "good/easy" snake that grows to a max of 3 ft?

If you want a small snake, get a corn or sand boa or something.

Deliberately "messing" with any line of animals to breed for a smaller size can not be a good thing.

I mean, look at how annoying small dogs are! Teacup poodles, Chihuahuas, etc.. Case in point....

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Originally Posted by AkivaSmith

Is there anyone out there breeding for size? Can it be done? I know that the Dog market does breeding for size.

Here is my interest. I know that BP get to between 4ft and 6ft. Apartment dwellers who want a small pet, (can't have a dog or cat, don't want to work hard enough to have an aquarium, and don't like birds) find snakes perfect. However, a 36x18 aquarium is rather large investment in space.

A snake that would grow to a max of three feet would fit in a 20 gal regular tank, and would be a tremendous find.

Since BPs are soooooo easy to take care of, and are really gentle -- could they be breed for a smaller size?

Is there any "good/easy" snake that grows to a max of 3 ft?

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I have never heard of anyone "breeding for size".I am not being rude here,how do you figure ball pythons are easy to care for :confused: .The only way i can see that this would be true is if the person never fed the snake properly,never cleaned its cage.I do not know of ANY pet that is easy to care for.

What about a Chia-pet?

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

What about a Chia-pet?

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LMAO :8: :8: :8:

Well I have had dogs, cats, birds, fish, and now a BP. The BP is by far the easiest to care for. Fish (especially Saltwater) are the hardest to care for. For all the love that dogs give, they can sometimes be a real burden especially when the get old!!!

I thought Corns got to 4+ feet normally.

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Originally Posted by AkivaSmith

Well I have had dogs, cats, birds, fish, and now a BP. The BP is by far the easiest to care for. Fish (especially Saltwater) are the hardest to care for. For all the love that dogs give, they can sometimes be a real burden especially when the get old!!!

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How can you even think let alone post a comment like that about dogs :( .That even having thoughts like this about any pet is very very sad!!:(

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Originally Posted by AkivaSmith

I thought Corns got to 4+ feet normally.

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3 to 4ft is the normal sizes.

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Originally Posted by joepythons

How can you even think let alone post a comment like that about dogs :( .That even having thoughts like this about any pet is very very sad!!:(

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You know, I am sorry, but a pet is a pet. A child is a person. I have witnessed people spend more time, money and attention on an aging pet then they do on a needy child. THAT IS DISGUSTING TO ME.

I suppose that my time working in a research lab using animals for test subjects has jaded me.

Why are you guys picking on Akiva? :(


Akiva, there's lots of different kinds of snakes that can live quite happily in a 20gal sized tank...including corns, sand boas, and most male ball pythons. I've never heard of anyone breeding BP's for a specific size, but I have heard people asking if they can be bred to be bigger. Don't know of anyone who's actually trying, though.

I just drop my old dogs off at the local Chinese Restaurant. They claim to operate a shelter there, and the turnaround time is so fast, I never see any dogs waiting for homes!

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Originally Posted by JLC

Why are you guys picking on Akiva? :(


Akiva, there's lots of different kinds of snakes that can live quite happily in a 20gal sized tank...including corns, sand boas, and most male ball pythons. I've never heard of anyone breeding BP's for a specific size, but I have heard people asking if they can be bred to be bigger. Don't know of anyone who's actually trying, though.

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I am not picking on her :( .It was just a shock when i read the "burden" part:( .

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

I just drop my old dogs off at the local Chinese Restaurant. They claim to operate a shelter there, and the turnaround time is so fast, I never see any dogs waiting for homes!

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Now you i will pick on :mad: :P :sabduel:

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Originally Posted by JLC

Akiva, there's lots of different kinds of snakes that can live quite happily in a 20gal sized tank...including corns, sand boas, and most male ball pythons. I've never heard of anyone breeding BP's for a specific size, but I have heard people asking if they can be bred to be bigger. Don't know of anyone who's actually trying, though.

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To respond to the original post...I can't see how intentially breeding less than optimal specimens could be a good thing in the long run. I mean, sure, there's morphs out there that tend to have some undesireable charateristics haunting their lines (spinnin' spiders, kinking carmels, etc) but those are constant outcrossed with fresh blood to minimize the occurance of these abnormalities. To intentionally seek out runts, less healthy adults, bad eaters, etc, for the purposes of recreating those traits, just doesn't seem like a good thing.

Thanks, elevatethis - LOL. When I was in Korea (going native) with my time away from the base, I did try kaygogie. It was a little rubbery, but otherwise tasted pretty good.


I'll look into care sheets on corns and sand boas. I have a neighbor who saw my BP but did not want a snake that would get to 5 ft.

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Originally Posted by joepythons

Now you i will pick on :mad: :P :sabduel:

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I was only joking of course :sweeet:

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

I was only joking of course :sweeet:

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I know and so am i ;)

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

To respond to the original post...I can't see how intentially breeding less than optimal specimens could be a good thing in the long run. I mean, sure, there's morphs out there that tend to have some undesireable charateristics haunting their lines (spinnin' spiders, kinking carmels, etc) but those are constant outcrossed with fresh blood to minimize the occurance of these abnormalities. To intentionally seek out runts, less healthy adults, bad eaters, etc, for the purposes of recreating those traits, just doesn't seem like a good thing.

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This, I think, is a reasonable response and explains why you think that. Comparing small snakes to small yappy dogs...I dunno, that just seemed a bit mocking. And Joe jumping in criticizing about a choice of words that otherwise made an entirely reasonable point... :confuzd:

Snakes ARE easier to take care of than dogs. I really don't see any reason to get all picky about that assertion. That's not to say that snakes are right for everyone...but then again, neither are dogs.

Judy, the comparison to dogs was meant to be taken as completely bogus and was made totally for the purposes of humor. Sorry you weren't tickled by it. I'll try better next time ;)

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Originally Posted by JLC

This, I think, is a reasonable response and explains why you think that. Comparing small snakes to small yappy dogs...I dunno, that just seemed a bit mocking. And Joe jumping in criticizing about a choice of words that otherwise made an entirely reasonable point... :confuzd:

Snakes ARE easier to take care of than dogs. I really don't see any reason to get all picky about that assertion. That's not to say that snakes are right for everyone...but then again, neither are dogs.

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I apologize:oops:

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

Judy, the comparison to dogs was meant to be taken as completely bogus and was made totally for the purposes of humor. Sorry you weren't tickled by it. I'll try better next time ;)

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Sorry...I may be a bit ultra sensitive lately, due to a lot of things boiling under pressure cookers around here right now.

Just for the record I am a Male named after Rabbi Akiva ben Joseph (of the 1st century AD).


Also, I am very thick skinned. I took no offense during this thread.

and I very much appreciate that we should not breed for weakness. I have never heard of the sand boa and we don't have a care sheet for it. I did find one on the wnyherp site.

Kenyan Sand Boas are pretty cool, very different type of snake that stays very small, doesn't need very high heat/humidity, etc.

Just run a google search and that will put you on your way...

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Originally Posted by joepythons

I have never heard of anyone "breeding for size"

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There are definitely people "breeding for size" when it comes to BP's, but not in this manner LOL they are line breeding the big 'uns, in hopes of their large size being genetic...there are some people up here in Canada working with what they call "The big girl" line, and the original momma is massive! and throws real big clutches of eggs too ;)

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Originally Posted by Uncle Festae

There are definitely people "breeding for size" when it comes to BP's, but not in this manner LOL they are line breeding the big 'uns, in hopes of their large size being genetic...there are some people up here in Canada working with what they call "The big girl" line, and the original momma is massive! and throws real big clutches of eggs too ;)

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Wow thanks for sharing :cool: .Do you have a pic of the massive female by chance?

Joe, I do..but its not my pic or snake, so I wont post it here, but she is 5800g, and threw 14 eggs last year, and 13 this year.... PM me your e-mail address and I will send it to you ;)

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Originally Posted by Uncle Festae

Joe, I do..but its not my pic or snake, so I wont post it here, but she is 5800g, and threw 14 eggs last year, and 13 this year.... PM me your e-mail address and I will send it to you ;)

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OK i understand

if you don't have the space for a tank, whats wrong with a tub?

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Originally Posted by Uncle Festae

There are definitely people "breeding for size" when it comes to BP's, but not in this manner LOL they are line breeding the big 'uns, in hopes of their large size being genetic...there are some people up here in Canada working with what they call "The big girl" line, and the original momma is massive! and throws real big clutches of eggs too ;)

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EXACTLY! ... Here in the states too ... There's actually a region in West Africa known for it's "big girls" ... A friend of my brought in an 18 egger a couple of years ago ... she was a giant! ... The babies are growing nicely. ;)

-adam

If people can breed, retics for size (dwarf, super dwarf) why not balls?? breeding for size isn't really any different than breeding for coloration or temperment, the only difference is that they don't grow so large (or in the case of the "big girl" project they want them big!), so why is this negative if coloration modification is accepted? As long as it is being bred carefully, so that other mutations and problems aren't passed on it is no different than breeding for other traits.


but thats just my thinking...:)

~mike

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Originally Posted by bpkid

if you don't have the space for a tank, whats wrong with a tub?

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Don't get me wrong here -- I don't mean any disrespect, but tubs are just not an option for many people.

I know that this is a REALLY BIG ISSUE that has over a million words posted on it. So I am going to be very brief and explain just why tubs are a faux pas.

Aesthetics!

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Originally Posted by AkivaSmith

I know that this is a REALLY BIG ISSUE that has over a million words posted on it. So I am going to be very brief and explain just why tubs are a faux pas.

Aesthetics!

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You mean why they are a faux pas for you ... right?

Remember, what is aestherically pleasing to one, may or may not be aesthetically pleasing to another. ;)

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Remember, what is aestherically pleasing to one, may or may not be aesthetically pleasing to another. ;) -adam

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Absolutely correct.

I would love and ARS-70 rack system, but my wife would divorce me!

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Originally Posted by AkivaSmith

I would love and ARS-70 rack system, but my wife would divorce me!

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Now for me, I'd have to spend some time thinking about that one.

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

You mean why they are a faux pas for you ... right?

Remember, what is aestherically pleasing to one, may or may not be aesthetically pleasing to another. ;)

-adam

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Rock on Adam, I know I'd rather see a nice, neat room full of nice, neat racks.. than a room of jumbled, dirty terrrariums like I have seen before...And to Akiva..if you're wife doesnt support your hobby and projects (i.e. tells you what you can and cant spend on snakey stuff) you are going to have ALOT of problems LOL let me tell you........I was in a stituation like that before, so you know what I did? I left her :D ...now Im happy as hell, and my new fiancee supports ALL of my decisions, and loves this hobby as much as I do, even encourages me to buy more :D....Adam, if that decision was mine, it wouldnt take long LOL the ARS would be in the snake room, and the wife would be at the curb LMAO

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Originally Posted by Uncle Festae

Rock on Adam, I know I'd rather see a nice, neat room full of nice, neat racks.. than a room of jumbled, dirty terrrariums like I have seen before...And to Akiva..if you're wife doesnt support your hobby and projects (i.e. tells you what you can and cant spend on snakey stuff) you are going to have ALOT of problems LOL let me tell you........I was in a stituation like that before, so you know what I did? I left her :D ...now Im happy as hell, and my new fiancee supports ALL of my decisions, and loves this hobby as much as I do, even encourages me to buy more :D....Adam, if that decision was mine, it wouldnt take long LOL the ARS would be in the snake room, and the wife would be at the curb LMAO

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LMAO! ... ROCK ON Chris! ... Actually, we have a lot in common ;) ... I was just being a little "PC" ... anytime you want to sit down for a beer or twenty brother ... I'm buying!!!! :carrot:

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Now for me, I'd have to spend some time thinking about that one.

-adam

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you and me both...

Actually, my wife is the one who wanted to buy the snake in the first place. She just want to see it in a nice display. It does not matter that the vast majority of the time all we can see is a little bit of his head sticking out of his hide.


Since I am the one feeding and cleaning, I am interested in doing the tub thing. However it goes against her aesthetic sensibilities to have a pet in a plasic container.

I mean, heck, she named it FLUFFY! I would have named it BUTCH!

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

LMAO! ... ROCK ON Chris! ... Actually, we have a lot in common ;) ... I was just being a little "PC" ... anytime you want to sit down for a beer or twenty brother ... I'm buying!!!! :carrot:

-adam

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Sounds like a deal ;) maybe if we drink enough, we'll both know 100!? :P LMAO

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Originally Posted by Uncle Festae

Sounds like a deal ;) maybe if we drink enough, we'll both know 100!? :P LMAO

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Sounds like we share the same philosophy on drinking too! ... NICE! ;)

-adam

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Originally Posted by AkivaSmith

Actually, my wife is the one who wanted to buy the snake in the first place. She just want to see it in a nice display. It does not matter that the vast majority of the time all we can see is a little bit of his head sticking out of his hide.


Since I am the one feeding and cleaning, I am interested in doing the tub thing. However it goes against her aesthetic sensibilities to have a pet in a plasic container.

I mean, heck, she named it FLUFFY! I would have named it BUTCH!

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Well, since she likes the snakes, explain to her how if she ditches the aquarium, she can fit a rack in the same spot which would hold quite a few snakes, and certainly wouldnt cost anymore than setting up 1 "nice display"...and of course, they would be much happier in there, which would lead to the snakes being more enjoyable to handle, there are too many things to list here LOL....I will finish by saying, IMO the best "display" for a snake, is in my hands ;) :D