Green Corn!!

Does anyone here thinks it's possible to breed a rough green snake (Opheodrys aestivus) or a smooth green snake (Liochlorophis vernalis) to a corn. They are both members of the colubrid family. I know some hybrids are possible. It woul probably add some neat color to the mix. . . just curious.

That would be awesome to create a green corn!!! I'm totally with you there :P

I'm serious. . . why souldn't it work? :P

One day I'm going to try it. . . I want to get a smooth green snake, but I don't know where to get one. . . :( I would try to breed anery type a with it. . . I wonder what would come out. . . or lava. . . I'd call it a christmas corn lmao
Or even breed one of these. . . they have distinct green/olive. Streifennatter (Elaphe taeniura)
Or one of these :D It could work Red-tailed Green Ratsnake (Elaphe [Gonyosoma] oxycephala)
Or a mandarin rat snake Mandarinnatter (Elaphe mandarina)
And here we have some spotting thrown into the mix. Leopardnatter (Elaphe situla)

I don't you'd have much success there, even if they are in the same family. If two animals are in the same genus, you may have some luck. Heck, a rosy boa and a retic are in the same family (don't think that's happening!), plus the colubridae family is HUGE, containling more than half of the snake species on earth. It is a taxonomical dumping ground for all advanced snakes that don't fit into other established families (much like the genus Coluber has been for many fast moving snakes for decades). There is still a lot of taxonomic work to be done in advances snakes, and we will likely see new families made to classify colubrids more specifically. Sorry for the long-winded and geeky answer, I just couldn't help myself https://ball-pythons.net/forums/imag...es/redface.gif .

-Evan

All of the other species are elaphe :P some of them are green. . . they are european corn snakes. They are of the same genus. It would be like breeding a rat snake to a corn snake. I still think I want to try it. Who knows. . . and I definitely do plan on doing a lot of research before I try. There are the animals well being to worry about.
Thanks for the input though. . . I would probably try with one of the elaphe species.:)

Just so you know, North American ratsnakes (corns, great plains rats etc.), are no longer classified as Elaphe, but are now Pantherophis. They are not really that closely related to eurasian ratsnakes, so you probably wouldn't have much success there either. I'm not trying to burst your bubble or anything, and you're more than welcome to try, but you'd be much more likey to be successful if you stuck to snakes that have a much more recent common ancestor. Just my humble opinion https://ball-pythons.net/forums/imag...lies/smile.gif .


-Evan

k, genetically speaking. . . do you think there's that much difference between the two (old and new) that they wont have viable young. I'm being sincere. If you can breed a king corn cross, then there must be decent odds that you can breed a pantherophis guttata with a elaphe. . . considereing they are ancestors of each other. . . i understand the difference between the two, but I know that parrot fish are a cross between two genus and they are possible. Although the males are believed to be infertile. Can there really be that much difference between the two. In my view, the only difference is location. I might be naive, but I still think it's possible, but I don't want to create a franken-snake either. I would feel horrible if I tried it, and something bad happened. Do you know the reason that new world was reclassified. . . was it genetic differences, or just the difference between here and there? I really would like to discuss this at length if anyone cares to. :confused: If I do still try to breed it will be with Elaphe Prasina

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Originally Posted by Alicia Marie

k, genetically speaking. . . do you think there's that much difference between the two (old and new) that they wont have viable young.

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It's hard to say what will be a viable cross without trying it. I have not heard of anyone successfully hybridizing new world rats with old world rats, but that doesn't mean it hasn't been done before.

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Originally Posted by Alicia Marie

I know that parrot fish are a cross between two genus and they are possible. Although the males are believed to be infertile.

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Do you mean blood parrot cichlids?

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Originally Posted by Alicia Marie

I don't want to create a franken-snake either. I would feel horrible if I tried it, and something bad happened.

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Then I would suggest not trying. You may get lucky and have some babies hatch that go on to be fertile, possibly even genetically stronger than either one of the parent species alone (hybrid vigor); but chances are the hatch rates would be dismal, and there would be much heartbreak involved with babies not thriving, or years spent in raising animals that cannot produce offspring.

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Originally Posted by Alicia Marie

Do you know the reason that new world was reclassified. . . was it genetic differences

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The reclassification was based on mitochondrial DNA studies. The mtDNA of the two groups were different enough that the majority of herpetological taxonomists agreed that they should be classified in seperate genera. (Most taxonomical decisions are not fully accepted by all scientists)

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Originally Posted by Alicia Marie

I really would like to discuss this at length if anyone cares to. https://ball-pythons.net/forums/imag...s/confused.gif If I do still try to breed it will be with Elaphe Prasina

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I say if you really want to know and you are ready for a long-term project with a potentially dim future, go for it. I'm not against hybrids in any way, I hope I am not coming off that way, but I don't think I will ever personally work with them.

last i heard the ICZN (international commitee on zoological nomenclature) hasnt approved the change from elaphe to pantherophis, so according to the "official" rules, nothing has changed. I have emailed them about it to see for sure where it stands, but i havent heard back from them yet.

Alll New World ratsnakes that I know of that have been successfully hybridized are in the genra Elaphe/Pantherophis, Lampropeltis, and Pituophis. Looking into it a little more I found that all these genera along with the Bogertophis genus and a couple other species have been studied using molecular systematics, and are believed to have evolved from the same branch of Elaphe. I would say the possiblilty of viable offspring between an animal from this group with some eurasian ratsnakes would be much more likely than with a corn and a rough or smooth greensnake. It would all depend on how much genetic drift has occured in the span of time since the gene pools were separated, and if there are any pre or post-zygotic barriers to successful fertilization and development. I'm sure someone will try in the future. I guess we'll just have to wait and see how compatible they really are once some one does.

-Evan

P.S. If anyone wants to read the paper in which the genus name Pantherophis was suggested, (Warning!!!, science content ahead https://ball-pythons.net/forums/imag...es/biggrin.gif ) here it is.

I found something interesting while reading. . . apparently the green is a combination of xanthic pigment, and a BLUE pigment. Together, they make the green. I'm not sure what this will mean in regards to the color of hybrid offspring. . . but there are three options. . . yellow, green, and possibly a blue pigment. I think I'm going to try it with elaphe prasina. Of course, this is a long term goal. . . Thanks so much guys for your input. . . keep it coming. I still can't imagine more genetic difference between two members of elaphe than there would be between a king snake or milk snake and a corn snake. I say my odds are pretty decent. I'm not sure how the color genes work in prasina. . . do you think that they are dominant or recessive? :confused: It will take LOTS of generations before I ever figure it out.