how do i convince them?! please leave replies!!! help!

hey everyone my parents want me to make a pro/con sheet of the benefits/cons from buying a spider and a pastel even though they think my normal is enough. obviously iwant the experience and the bumbles (hehe). so can you guys give me pros and cons (hopefully not cons lol) bout buying 2 more pythons when my non-american parents have no understanding on snakes and need convincing? :D :D

Well first the con

For newbies to the breeding world, like myself, spiders are expensive!

that's the only con i can think of

The pros:
You have just entered into a hobby that has the potential to pay for itself. What happens when you buy a car? the second you drive it off the lot, it loses it's value! What happens when you buy a spider snake? it gains value! A spider is an investment and you will make your money back in a few years if you decide to breed it.

Other than that, it's a gorgeous snake!

I'd have to agree with your parents right now. Just from what I've read from your posts so far, you haven't owned your normal very long and you're already in a rush to breed. I've been keeping ball pythons for a year and a half now, and have seventeen of them, but I KNOW that I'm not ready to breed yet (I've got more racks to buy, a hatchling rack to buy, an incubator to buy, more thermostats to buy, rats to breed, etc). It will be at least another season before I'm ready to breed.


Get some experience under your belt with your first snake, how to deal with things that come up (like a fast, or a stuck shed, etc). After a year of experience with him, then maybe, you might be ready to add another snake, be it a pastel or a spider.

Prove to your parents that you are successful in raising the one you have and keeping it healthy, then you can ask at that time for one.

Keep your normal, gain some experience... down the line perhaps breed your normal once or a few times so you'll know what to do when you're hatching investment eggs.

I think the question is how do you convince yourself you don't need them right now? as apposed to how do I convince my parents that you do need them?

Just wait a couple years man! Get a job, move out and then you will have the reptile world in the palm of your hands.

Adi,

To me it sounds like your wants exceed your needs. Ask yourself this, "Do I really need two more snakes when I am still learning how to take care of the one that I own?" Just from reading your statement, you are young and have plenty of time ahead of you to get into building a collection and breeding. Take your time, learn what you can about this hobby to avoid possible burnout, you never know, in a year you might not be interested in what is involved with taking care of snakes. It happens to young people all the time (i'm not saying this will happen to you, but it is a possibility).

Good Luck.

i understand what all of you are getting at and at some extent i think you are right but ive owned my normal for a year now and i did come across problems like stuck sheds etc. i know the process of breeding and what you need for it (seen it a couple times with my friend doing it so he explained quite a bit) so for the actual process i know i can do that.as for not loving ball pythons and losing interest....i dont think so lol i loved them since i was seven and only convinced my parents getting me one last year....obviously when i was seven i did not know about morphs/genetics and im not plannign to buy 2 more for another 8 months so ill give it some thought.

Pros:

snakes:

-don't chew the furniture
-don't bark or complain
-don't need to be walked rain, shine, or snow
-don't pee on the carpet
-don't leave hair on you shirt or lap
-don't lick, but instead scare intruders
-don't take up a lot of room
- etc.
;)

I have had bps for several years (i think going on 9 or 10) and am just now beginning to look into breeding. Yea getting a spider and a pastel together to breed would be awsome and the return fast, which i think is part of the enticement for younger people. But what if you invest in those two snakes and for some reason they don't breed, or you do breed them but you don't have the experience to incubate the eggs. Don't rush into things, research over time is best!


goodluck
~mikeh

All I have to say about this is as a parent your lucky to have one. Love The One Your With.

maybe you should listen to the more experienced members here, if you had your normal for only a short amount of time, maybe you should wait

i plan on breeding my normals, and then buying a het morph

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Originally Posted by MAC 1

Love The One Your With.

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Ohhhh great! Now I'm gonna have that song stuck in my head the rest of the night! :taz: :P

wildlife warrior- although breeding them and "returing fast" would be ncie, thats not my primary goal. my goal is to have more ball pythons (not that i dont love the one i have now) i lvoe them and i want more of them to take care of- specifically i want the pastel/spider because bumbles are my favorite and i would try to breed them eventually. but i love spiders and pastels too and i dont see a reason why my parents wouldnt allow having more snakes especially if i pay 3/4 by working (also a plus form y parents).

i have a daughter in h.s., i value hard work and honesty. be upfront with yourself and parents. work to save up the money needed for everything. don't try or say you will, just do it! make a plan, show them in writing the costs and planning, show them the money you already have for everything. be responsible, if they have to tell you to take out the trash or do the dishes or any other chores, they may doubt your ability to do what you say?


research,research,research and plan, set goals, get the money needed for your goals, show your ability, just do it.



vaughn

Quote:

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Originally Posted by adi

... and i dont see a reason why my parents wouldnt allow having more snakes especially if i pay 3/4 by working (also a plus form y parents).

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Ok...this is coming from a Mom of three. And also a Mom who loves snakes and has plans of her own to someday raise and breed many different kinds. I don't have anything against my children owning and caring for snakes. So bear that in mind...

If my high-school aged daughter (or son) came to me wanting any sort of expensive morph or two...she'd be paying for it 100% out of her own pocket. And that would be only after a significant period of thought and research to quell any chance of her "impulse spending" that kind of money.

And when I say "research" I don't just mean about how to care for and breed the snakes or about how genetics work.....but I also mean for her to have a clear and concise plan laid out about what she plans to do with her snakes when she goes away to college and has to live in a dorm that doesn't allow pets...or any of the other life changes that are ahead of her that will affect her ability to keep animals of any sort.

Young people have a tendency to think tomorrow will be just like today...when in reality it will be nothing like you imagined it to be. This forum's "for sale" area is filled with ads from people who love their snakes, but can't keep them because of college, new jobs, new spouses, moving, or any number of other reasons.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by adi

wildlife warrior- although breeding them and "returing fast" would be ncie, thats not my primary goal. my goal is to have more ball pythons (not that i dont love the one i have now) i lvoe them and i want more of them to take care of- specifically i want the pastel/spider because bumbles are my favorite and i would try to breed them eventually. but i love spiders and pastels too and i dont see a reason why my parents wouldnt allow having more snakes especially if i pay 3/4 by working (also a plus form y parents).

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I know people say ball pythons are ball pythons, doesn't matter what the morph is, just remember it is a big investment, somewhere around 1200 and up (between the 2 snakes), you also don't know if you are going to have time and money to invest into more than one snake, with food etc. I would still suggest as some others have and get a few more normals, to be sure you can handle more than one animal. If you figured out you have enough time to deal with them, you can sell them then put that money towards your spider or pastel. I think there is a difference between owning one and several, go slow your young and have plenty of time to figure things out, you may get a job to initially pay for these guys, then lose interest (hopefully not) but it may happen. SO my suggestion is take your time, if you want to spend the money on two snakes that you may regret or lose interest in 4 months or more then go for it. its your choice and your parent's final word.
:rockon:

~mike

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JLC

Ok...this is coming from a Mom of three. And also a Mom who loves snakes and has plans of her own to someday raise and breed many different kinds. I don't have anything against my children owning and caring for snakes. So bear that in mind...

If my high-school aged daughter (or son) came to me wanting any sort of expensive morph or two...she'd be paying for it 100% out of her own pocket. And that would be only after a significant period of thought and research to quell any chance of her "impulse spending" that kind of money.

And when I say "research" I don't just mean about how to care for and breed the snakes or about how genetics work.....but I also mean for her to have a clear and concise plan laid out about what she plans to do with her snakes when she goes away to college and has to live in a dorm that doesn't allow pets...or any of the other life changes that are ahead of her that will affect her ability to keep animals of any sort.

Young people have a tendency to think tomorrow will be just like today...when in reality it will be nothing like you imagined it to be. This forum's "for sale" area is filled with ads from people who love their snakes, but can't keep them because of college, new jobs, new spouses, moving, or any number of other reasons.

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very well spoken (you sound like my mom!!!):P

hey everyone i see where your coming from and i will put a lot of though into it. trust me as a young'in, i can definitly say i have ideas and want them to happen as soon as i think of them but occasionally there are some ideas that stick with me that truly are my hobbies like wakeboarding-started since i was 5- my folks thought i was just a "fad" but now a dayz i compete in competitions. JLC- i just stated my parents would pay 1/4 cus they wanted to cus i want my snakes for my b-day gift +holiday gift combined. i wouldnt mind paying for all of it :D so all in all im just saying i truly feel liek this is one if the idea that will stick to me especially cus ive still got 4 years of high school, and plannign to go to colledge close to my house so i can visit them every weekend.

My advice, invest in an ALMOST breedable size normal female, and raise her up a lil more, breed her, and when you have success, THEN get the pastel and spider. You weant to have experience incubating and caring for babies before you invest in high dollar animals. I wouldn't want to jump into incubatin and raising such valuable lil guys with no prior experience. Hey, it's bad losing a clutch of normals cause it's your first time with no experience, versus losing a clutch with a possible value in the $1000's.

very true, but dont forget that you can always try next season,year. and i do have prior experience with normals, my friend/neighbor wantedto breed his normals so everyday i went over to his house and checked it out and he explained alot. so i have a good feelign that i wont have any trouble breeding and taking care of em

Quote:

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Originally Posted by adi

very true, but dont forget that you can always try next season,year. and i do have prior experience with normals, my friend/neighbor wantedto breed his normals so everyday i went over to his house and checked it out and he explained alot. so i have a good feelign that i wont have any trouble breeding and taking care of em

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just remember seeing and doing are 2 different things, its good you have someone close by you can ask any questions to if you have any problems during your initail breeding attemps.

But i will have to say like 4thesnakelady said, losing 150 bucks in normals is different than several thousand, just think you screw up once, okay you lose those thousands of buck, and you breed again the next year, but you still lost thousands of bucks! i love the snakes, and am not in it for the money when i start breeding, but i think i will def be more crushed if i knew i lost 5 eggs from a powerouttage when they possibly are full of spiders, pastels and bees, compared to 5 normals. (which my first breeding attempt between my normals, resulted in poor humidity regulation and i lost all 7) but now i know what i did wronge without losing THOUSANDS.

~mike

wildlife warrior- you are completely right but my case i guess you can say is different- im not spending 10, ooo $ i would be spending tops 1600 and obviously for a first time breeder, its A LOT but ive done projects prior ot this (not BP specifically) and i work for what i want so i would be willing to work to get that money and im a freshman who deosnt have a car or anything liek that so its not liek a normally work anyways. and not only that, but i can use my friends incubator and experience helping me achieve it im not trying to fight my arguement i think all of you have great points im just curious no hard feeligns anyone! :D :rockon:

I'm not saying you would be losing the 1600 from the parents but from the possible offspring.


No worries or hard feelings, i just want you to be sure you see all the options. If you clear it with your rents i say go for it, the only way you'll really know is if you try (i would just prefer to try with something a little less expensive:P )

good luck convincing those rent pal!

~mike

thanks wildlife warrior i understand why ude want me to start out with normals, but like you said ill never know if i try. but liek i say go big or dont go at all :P ur right that i would be losing money on the babys i wouldnt have (hopefully itll be successful the 1st time) but ide still have a spider, a normal, and a pastel whom ide love anywayz for trying :D and for themeselves of course

I don't think you're really going to take anyone's advice...you seem like you're going to do what you what without regards to some of our members experienced advice.

Before you go and blow your money on a pastel and spider purchase yourself some adequate caging (Not glass tanks), a thermostat, temp gun, and a incubator for yourself and all of the other goodies that you'll need to keep the snakes happy. Don't cheap out on the caging, especially if you're planning to breed...it'll make your life a lot easier in the long run.

If I were you I'd wait until you breed some normals before you jump into high dollar morphs, you can keep the females for future breeding, sell the males to your local pet shop...and basically get more experience under your belt. All of the reading in the world doesn't equate to hard learned practice/experience in snake keeping and breeding.

Not trying to discourage you, but your parents may very well be right. In the end you will have very well over $1600 invested from feeding, bedding, vet bills if the need arises, the other items mentioned above^. I'd really think hard over what you WANT, and recognize what you will NEED to be sucessful.

But what do I know...do what you want.

-Jason

jason- i was thinking all day today at school and didnt pay attention to anytthing else (unfortunatly the teacher yelled at me for it:P ) and i know you guys are totally right and im going to follow all of your advice. im gonna breed my normal to my friends normal when they are ready, and if everything goes well.....then ill bring back the subject but that means i need to wait another 2 years till i can breed them and then if i decide to get the other 2 i need to wait another 2 years till i can breed them......thats another 4 years and i dont know if i can hold snakes in colledge or wherever i may be and that was what caused me to ask you that question......i know you will all say you had 10 years of experience and 4 its ok......but 4 seems a lot :confused: