A spider mated with a Pastel would produce what?

just a question

i think a bumblebee? good question. I'm new to genetics too so someone with the knowledge chime in :)

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A spider mated with a Pastel would produce what?

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These!

http://www.8ballpythons.com/uploads/bee.jpg

http://www.8ballpythons.com/uploads/bees.jpg

http://www.8ballpythons.com/uploads/bees2.jpg

Pastel Spiders ... aka Bumble Bees!!! :D

-adam

YAY i got it right. thanks adam! you rawk

How about a spider with a jungle pastel or lemon pastel...

What is the black one in the last picture? That is awesome.

David

Unless I'm mistaken, a spider x pastel can result in bumblebees (pastel spider), spiders, pastel, and normals. Of course I just finished my daughter's 5th birthday party with 17 screaming kids, so my brain is a bit fried. :crazy:

you all got it wrong! they do not produce bumble bee's, they produce some darn sexxy bee's, nice snakes adam

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Originally Posted by tropheusfreak

What is the black one in the last picture? That is awesome.

David

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Axanthic (lacking yellow and brown)

no will breeding the bumble bee into a normal, will they still produce bumbles?

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Originally Posted by jcaustralia

no will breeding the bumble bee into a normal, will they still produce bumbles?

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They potentially could, yes.

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Originally Posted by jcaustralia

no will breeding the bumble bee into a normal, will they still produce bumbles?

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I think it would produce 50/50 because spider is a dominant trait...

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Originally Posted by nathanledet

How about a spider with a jungle pastel or lemon pastel...

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There's no such thing as a "jungle pastel" ... it's "pastel jungle" which is the long form of "pastel" ... A lemon pastel is just a specific bloodline of pastels which in my opinion makes better bees.

-adam

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Originally Posted by tropheusfreak

What is the black one in the last picture? That is awesome.

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Thanks! He's my very special VPI axanthic boy! He rocks!

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

There's no such thing as a "jungle pastel" ... it's "pastel jungle" which is the long form of "pastel" ... A lemon pastel is just a specific bloodline of pastels which in my opinion makes better bees.

-adam

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whoops my fingers go faster than my thoughts. thank you for the correction :)

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Originally Posted by nathanledet

I think it would produce 50/50 because spider is a dominant trait...

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spiders are co-dom, bees are double co-dom

from bee x normal each egg can be a normal,pastel,spider, or a bee.



vaughn

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Originally Posted by nathanledet

Originally Posted by jcaustralia
no will breeding the bumble bee into a normal, will they still produce bumbles?

I think it would produce 50/50 because spider is a dominant trait...

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The spider gene and the pastel gene will be independent.

The probabilities when breeding a bumblebee to a normal would be
25% normal
25% pastel
25% spider
25% pastel spider (bumblebee)

Steve

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Originally Posted by kavmon

spiders are co-dom, bees are double co-dom

from bee x normal each egg can be a normal,pastel,spider, or a bee.



vaughn

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vaughn,

Spiders are thought to be dominant aren't they? At least I haven't heard of a "super spider" yet!

Pastels are co-dominant, with the monozygous being the super pastel.

Steve

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Originally Posted by hoo-t

The probabilities when breeding a bumblebee to a normal would be
25% normal
25% pastel
25% spider
25% pastel spider (bumblebee)

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Isn't that just the coolest thing ever!!! ... I really love balls (pythons)! :O :twisted: ;)

-adam

yes there are dominant, no visual super has been confirmed yet that i know of.


i just label them as co-doms when talking genetics, keeps it simple in my head for me.



vaughn

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

These!

http://www.8ballpythons.com/uploads/bees.jpg

-adam

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So FINE...the best I have EVER seen. Updated pics are a MUST :carrot:

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Originally Posted by hoo-t

The spider gene and the pastel gene will be independent.

The probabilities when breeding a bumblebee to a normal would be
25% normal
25% pastel
25% spider
25% pastel spider (bumblebee)

Steve

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That's wrong, isn't it Adam?????

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Originally Posted by hoo-t

That's wrong, isn't it Adam?????

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Nope???

-adam

Vaughn, heres something to think about. I used 2 male spiders for breeding last season.1 male bred to normal females produced about 50/50 litters. the other male when bred to normal females produced 100% spider litters. so im thinking that the one male is a super. what do you think?

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Originally Posted by ECLARK

Vaughn, heres something to think about. I used 2 male spiders for breeding last season.1 male bred to normal females produced about 50/50 litters. the other male when bred to normal females produced 100% spider litters. so im thinking that the one male is a super. what do you think?

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I would think that'd be a fun fella to prove out over the next several years and multiple mates. ;)

I know you asked Vaughn....but I couldn't resist poking my nose in. :P

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Nope???

-adam

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I get SOO confused when talking about multiple traits!?!?!?!

After I posted my self doubt, I drew out a partial punnet square and came up with the same results, but still doubted myself!

Thanks,
Steve

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Originally Posted by hoo-t

I get SOO confused when talking about multiple traits!?!?!?!

After I posted my self doubt, I drew out a partial punnet square and came up with the same results, but still doubted myself!

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You were making me doubt myself too!! :P

-adam

judy, your opinion is always welcome. :)

has anyone ever made a program like corn predictor for balls?

okay so then a mojave bred to a pastel would make what anyone?

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Originally Posted by ECLARK

Vaughn, heres something to think about. I used 2 male spiders for breeding last season.1 male bred to normal females produced about 50/50 litters. the other male when bred to normal females produced 100% spider litters. so im thinking that the one male is a super. what do you think?

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now that is interesting.

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Originally Posted by uservant

okay so then a mojave bred to a pastel would make what anyone?

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Makes a pastel/mojave. Some folks have called them "Pastaves" ....LOL But that beats "Mo-tels"... :giggle:

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Originally Posted by piranhaking

has anyone ever made a program like corn predictor for balls?

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There is a generic genetics wizard program. May be the same program you are talking about? It comes set up for corns, but information can be added for anything. They use retics as an example in the program description. I downloaded it, but haven't messed with it to see how difficult it is to use, or enter new information. It would be cool to set up for balls, rats and mice!

http://www.cornsnakes.nl/GenericGenWiz/MPGW.htm

Steve

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Originally Posted by ECLARK

Vaughn, heres something to think about. I used 2 male spiders for breeding last season.1 male bred to normal females produced about 50/50 litters. the other male when bred to normal females produced 100% spider litters. so im thinking that the one male is a super. what do you think?

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i think you may be on to something Ed! i really don't have enough spiders in my collection to do my own test. i'll wait for kevin to figure that one out and let us know.


vaughn

I think the clutch results would depend on if you had a bee that was a homo spider and het pastel.

Is this even posible?

that's not the predictor i have, but I'm gonna check it out, it might be a nicer setup. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by ECLARK

I used 2 male spiders for breeding last season.1 male bred to normal females produced about 50/50 litters. the other male when bred to normal females produced 100% spider litters. so im thinking that the one male is a super. what do you think?

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Thats pretty cool...any info on the parents? If that male spider was the offspring of a spider x spider pairing, there's a possibility that you have a homozygous spider (not a real super, because the spider gene in homozygous form doesn't manifest itself in a more extreme version, as pastel and super pastel look, that's what makes pastels co-dominant).

You might have just hit good odds...the law of large numbers says you need a few more years, a few more females, a bunch more eggs, and ALL spider offspring to solidify your claim on him. Good luck!

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Originally Posted by Rapture

I think the clutch results would depend on if you had a bee that was a homo spider and het pastel.

Is this even posible?

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It's possible, which would work out like this:

Homozygous spider heterozygous pastel x normal would result in offspring that were at very least all spiders. Since the pastel gene has a 50% chance of landing on each of those spiders as well (making them bees), half of those resulting spiders would be pastel spiders (bees!). So, 50% spider, 50% bumblebees, with no chance of normals.

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

It's possible, which would work out like this:

Homozygous spider heterozygous pastel x normal would result in offspring that were at very least all spiders. Since the pastel gene has a 50% chance of landing on each of those spiders as well (making them bees), half of those resulting spiders would be pastel spiders (bees!). So, 50% spider, 50% bumblebees, with no chance of normals.

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Woooowoooowoo hold the phone!!! There is no het pastels!! :snake:

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Originally Posted by stangs13

Woooowoooowoo hold the phone!!! There is no het pastels!! :snake:

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He doesn't mean "het" in its most common use...describing a normal looking snake carrying one copy of a genetic morph. It can also apply to a pastel because the pastel also only carries one gene of a pair...it just happens to be visible. HOWever...the more proper use of the term in this case would be het-super-pastel. :P

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Originally Posted by JLC

He doesn't mean "het" in its most common use...describing a normal looking snake carrying one copy of a genetic morph. It can also apply to a pastel because the pastel also only carries one gene of a pair...it just happens to be visible. HOWever...the more proper use of the term in this case would be het-super-pastel. :P

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het for super-pastel.....that's a very interesting way to look at incomplete dominace.... I like it!

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Originally Posted by JLC

He doesn't mean "het" in its most common use...describing a normal looking snake carrying one copy of a genetic morph. It can also apply to a pastel because the pastel also only carries one gene of a pair...it just happens to be visible. HOWever...the more proper use of the term in this case would be het-super-pastel. :P

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Ah gottcha.:D :P

I was also thinking no het pastel, but that makes TOTAL sense!!!!

I love these kinda threads, thanks for the good read guys and gals. (scribbles in notebook)

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Originally Posted by hoo-t

That's wrong, isn't it Adam?????

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From my understanding the only way that is wrong is if you have a homozygous spider, in that case you would get

Homozygous Spider x Pastel
50% Bumblebee
50% Spider

Heterozygous Spider x Pastel
25% Bumblebee
25% Spider
25% Pastel
25% Normal

I believe then that Bumblebees could also be considered double hets for Spider and Pastel.

Eclark, if you breed your spider with normals and you keep getting 100% spiders, you've got a homozygous spider, and your producing heterozygous spiders. I belive this is a good way of proving your Spiders to be homozygous.

PS - I'm not speaking on first hand knowledge, but this is how I understand it.