Gecko Keepers Beware?

If you are keeping and breeding geckos of any type, beware. joe capone has been buying up large numbers of geckos. who is joe capone? 1/2 of morph king reptiles. figure it out yourself. :eek:

You might want to read his post on the BOI.

Sounds like the other guy screwed him. I know theres a lot of people who don't like him for what he did but theres a simple solution. Don't buy from him. If he can get organized and start a serious breeding program with some rare geckos then he'l be doing more good than have all those geckos spread out among hobbyist.

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Originally Posted by ECLARK

If you are keeping and breeding geckos of any type, beware. joe capone has been buying up large numbers of geckos. who is joe capone? 1/2 of morph king reptiles. figure it out yourself. :eek:

You might want to read his post on the BOI.

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That guy is a freakin Loone!

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Originally Posted by greenmonkey51

If he can get organized and start a serious breeding program with some rare geckos then he'l be doing more good than have all those geckos spread out among hobbyist.

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Why would you say that? I would like to know the reasoning.

I believe he could keep bloodlines fresher by not having breed offspring back to the parent because they don't have any others to breed with. If you have 20 geckos from 5 different sources you can breed back offspring to other lines in your collections for a while before you run into any problems. Plus a commercial breeder will most likely have better facilities and be able to fine tune their breeding techniques easier and maximize potential. This is just my opinion.

Morph king reptiles only motivation is money, plain and simple. joe capone is the most obnoxious, most greedy little man I have ever seen. he has severly damaged the ball python market and is now going after the gecko world.

after reading his replys to people on the boi tonite I really believe he is mentally unstable.

These are my opinions, make up your own mind on this. :salute:

Where are you guys getting your information. Link?

I say I don't care...

Joe has been a great guy to me and no matter what anyone says, without question I'm buying from him one day.

Sapphire~ I talked to him on the phone last Sunday. He told me himself the species of gecko he's buying.

I don't want to piss anyone off but I have talked to Joe a but over the past week and I have no problems with him. He was a cool guy and seems pasionate about what he does

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Originally Posted by Pork Chops N' Corn Bread

. He seems pasionate about what he does

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Well even insane sick people can be passionate in what they do. Yet I dont know the man and only wanted to know how everyone knows this and if a link cn be provided:)

I read all of Joe's posts on the boy and see nothing wrong with him, except for the fact he was defedning himself when someone decided to say something about karma...

Although Edclark did seem to have a more professional approach than someone else who said something to Joe...

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Originally Posted by Sapphire7

Well even insane sick people can be passionate in what they do. Yet I dont know the man and only wanted to know how everyone knows this and if a link cn be provided:)

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Thats an assumption that he is insane. He could probably give a damn about what people think about him for what he does. We all have out oppinions. Some people in the ball market say he is bad for what he did, some say he isn't.
Its alot like the venomoid deal. Some people say venomoids are bad and some think otherwise. We can all take sides on an argument and hold grudges but just because what we think doesn't mean it is true

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Originally Posted by Pork Chops N' Corn Bread

Thats an assumption that he is insane. He could probably give a damn about what people think about him for what he does. We all have out oppinions. Some people in the ball market say he is bad for what he did, some say he isn't.
Its alot like the venomoid deal. Some people say venomoids are bad and some think otherwise. We can all take sides on an argument and hold grudges but just because what we think doesn't mean it is true

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No-no, I never said he was insane or whatever. Just responded to someone who said he seemed passionate abotu his work and I just had to say "even insane peopel are passionate about their work.. even if its insane or sickly" But I do not know the man. Were you the one I said it to? lol

OK,I read the whole thread on fauna:eek: .I was borderline positive i would never deal with MKR after there slam on the ball python industry at that time.Now i will never purchase anything ever from them even if its something i really want.Joe Capone is a blabbering nutcase who is totaly in love with himself that its scary :eek: .I do not think its right to rip anyone off, but like its said that Karma goes around and comes around;) .As i was reading the thread i was doing great at understanding Joe,until post 9.After this post he lost it!! It is very obvious he is in the Industry for the MONEY and that is it!! The blabbering about the TV show made no sense at all.Like it was mentioned several times he was just advertising himself.Bpkid and Greenmonkey please do not take this personel,i understand how you feel you got a great deal from MKR.Later on when you raise up your snakes you purchased from MKR you will feel screwed over just like the rest who purchased from them.I guarentee the prices that MKR sells snakes at next season will be even lower then what you paid this year.This will make your future babies worth even less.If you are like myself i look forward to getting a fair price for my babies in order to purchase others that i am interested in.With MKR knocking down the fair market prices majority of the people with the same thoughts as myself may never see this happen :mad: .I would not be surprised if people refused to buy from someone that has MKR stock as there breeders.

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Originally Posted by joepythons

OK,I read the whole thread on fauna:eek: .I was borderline positive i would never deal with MKR after there slam on the ball python industry at that time.Now i will never purchase anything ever from them even if its something i really want.Joe Capone is a blabbering nutcase who is totaly in love with himself that its scary :eek: .I do not think its right to rip anyone off, but like its said that Karma goes around and comes around;) .As i was reading the thread i was doing great at understanding Joe,until post 9.After this post he lost it!! It is very obvious he is in the Industry for the MONEY and that is it!! The blabbering about the TV show made no sense at all.Like it was mentioned several times he was just advertising himself.Bpkid and Greenmonkey please do not take this personel,i understand how you feel you got a great deal from MKR.Later on when you raise up your snakes you purchased from MKR you will feel screwed over just like the rest who purchased from them.I guarentee the prices that MKR sells snakes at next season will be even lower then what you paid this year.This will make your future babies worth even less.If you are like myself i look forward to getting a fair price for my babies in order to purchase others that i am interested in.With MKR knocking down the fair market prices majority of the people with the same thoughts as myself may never see this happen :mad: .I would not be surprised if people refused to buy from someone that has MKR stock as there breeders.

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I took no offense at all :) But the thing is, when piebalds were going for more than 10000, and you buy one then, and now the going price is around 4000, would you feel screwed? Not me because the price is going to go down eventually.

Now if I buy a 1300 dollar spider and produce spiders, they are still going to sell lower than what I paid for. I do not expect the same amount of money I put into that spider back. Actually, I expect less in the first year.

No offense joe :)

I can't seem to find the thread anywhere. Link por favor?

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...ad.php?t=87630

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Originally Posted by bpkid

I took no offense at all :) But the thing is, when piebalds were going for more than 10000, and you buy one then, and now the going price is around 4000, would you feel screwed? Not me because the price is going to go down eventually.

Now if I buy a 1300 dollar spider and produce spiders, they are still going to sell lower than what I paid for. I do not expect the same amount of money I put into that spider back. Actually, I expect less in the first year.

No offense joe :)

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The prices on pieds slowly lowered.Not in a month like MKR did with the majoves and such.So you say that since you paid say $500 for a majove last month you will not be upset if MKR sells the majoves for $50 today? Think about it. There is a big differance to prices lowering as more of the morph are produced.Compared to the straight up cut throat crap MKR did!! Who knows if he will stop at doing this just once.

Sure I would be upset but they have a right to do whatever they want with their prices.

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Originally Posted by bpkid

Sure I would be upset but they have a right to do whatever they want with their prices.

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I choose to work with breeders who support my long-term goals, like Adam.

No matter how enticing the prices are that MKR has, reputation means a lot, and I would rather work with someone who has built a good reputation that can help me build mine as well. I also wonder how much selective breeding MKR does to ensure they produce the best looking specimens for that particular morph, rather than just mass producing for the sake of mass producing.

FWIW, the clowns I saw MKR advertise were not Grade A animals, certainly not one I'd choose to add to my collection.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

No matter how enticing the prices are that MKR has, reputation means a lot, and I would rather work with someone who has built a good reputation that can help me build mine as well.

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I have not heard of a bad transaction with MKR. It seems like the only problem with them is their prices. MKR has a great reputation quality wise.

I really hope no one gets offended though ;)

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Originally Posted by bpkid

I have not heard of a bad transaction with MKR. It seems like the only problem with them is their prices. MKR has a great reputation quality wise.

I really hope no one gets offended though ;)

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You are missing the point completely...Its not about their customer service from a transaction standpoint. It is about them bending over their customers that they sold animals to.

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Originally Posted by bpkid

I have not heard of a bad transaction with MKR. It seems like the only problem with them is their prices. MKR has a great reputation quality wise.

I really hope no one gets offended though ;)

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I'm not offended in the least. But I don't agree with you on their reputation quality wise. I can only speak from my own observations on the clowns that they produced this year to sell cheap. They are not "shining examples" of the morph. At least not the ones I've seen. If I had seen their clowns first, I would probably move on to another morph that I liked better. Thankfully, I've seen NICE specimens from Justin Kobylka and EBN.

There is something to be said for you get what you pay for. Not just in the animal, but in the continued support that you get from your breeder AFTER the sale. MKR seems to be lacking in the support category.

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Originally Posted by jglass38

You are missing the point completely...Its not about their customer service from a transaction standpoint. It is about them bending over their customers that they sold animals to.

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I was just saying that their reputation is good when you are talking about a transaction standpoint.

But I understand that their reputation is NOT good with teh people who got screwed over.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

I'm not offended in the least. But I don't agree with you on their reputation quality wise. I can only speak from my own observations on the clowns that they produced this year to sell cheap. They are not "shining examples" of the morph. At least not the ones I've seen. If I had seen their clowns first, I would probably move on to another morph that I liked better. Thankfully, I've seen NICE specimens from Justin Kobylka and EBN.

There is something to be said for you get what you pay for. Not just in the animal, but in the continued support that you get from your breeder AFTER the sale. MKR seems to be lacking in the support category.

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I have not seen any of their clowns. Do they have any pics anywhere???

Not saying that I don't beleive you but I just want to see for myself ;)

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Originally Posted by bpkid

I was just saying that their reputation is good when you are talking about a transaction standpoint.

But I understand that their reputation is NOT good with teh people who got screwed over.

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No, you said:

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MKR has a great reputation quality wise.

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I disagree with that - their quality leaves something to be desired.

Sounds like a braggart and a tool to me...*shrug*

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Originally Posted by bpkid

I have not seen any of their clowns. Do they have any pics anywhere???

Not saying that I don't beleive you but I just want to see for myself ;)

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Right on their own website:

http://www.morphkingreptiles.com/Clowns.html

A nice clown has reduced pattern with very little spots in the side patterning. Theirs are loaded with spots.

THESE are nice clowns:

http://www.ballpythonmorphs.com/06cavail.html

Now you tell me, which ones look nicer?

Sean and Celia have some seriously "hubba hubba!" clowns!

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Right on their own website:

http://www.morphkingreptiles.com/Clowns.html

A nice clown has reduced pattern with very little spots in the side patterning. Theirs are loaded with spots.

THESE are nice clowns:

http://www.ballpythonmorphs.com/06cavail.html

Now you tell me, which ones look nicer?

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WOW! Those are really nice!

You are right about the quality of clowns then. I apologize for arguing about that.

BUT I still have not known of a person who was sent a sick unhealthy snake, or no snake at all :P from MKR.

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Originally Posted by bpkid

BUT I still have not known of a person who was sent a sick unhealthy snake, or no snake at all :P from MKR.

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BUT, if you want to produce quality animals, you have to START with quality animals. I believe Sean at EBN has a catch phrase that fits in this situation "Examine the animal, not the deal".

Those clowns that MKR is selling probably ARE healthy, but will they produce animals that look like EBNs, or more that look like MKRs?

Ok, this may be offtopic, BUT how do you decide what your snakes are going to look like? All clowns are different, and (please correct me if I'm wrong) a nice clown could make a lesser quality clown. (once again, correct me if I'm wrong.)

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Originally Posted by bpkid

Ok, this may be offtopic, BUT how do you decide what your snakes are going to look like? All clowns are different, and (please correct me if I'm wrong) a nice clown could make a lesser quality clown. (once again, correct me if I'm wrong.)

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If you start with nice quality animals, including the females you choose to pair them with (selective breeding), you will consistently produce nice quality offspring. MKR is clearly not concerned with that.

alot of this is perspective, if you are looking for the lowest price animal period, with no intention on breeding. then go to the lowest bidder. if you are looking at animals for investment potential and quality go with a breeder that supports you and your goals.



if someone sold me a snake last year at 10-15K, then sold the same morph at 1500-2500 this year! i would feel robbed/taken, i would be checking airline tickets and having a "talk" with them. to me that is real low and dirty to take someone's hard earned money, get them excited about a project, and then dump on them before they could make babies.

"that's not how i roll" and not people i care to support!:D


vaughn

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Originally Posted by bpkid

Sure I would be upset but they have a right to do whatever they want with their prices.

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This is not a attack at you.Whenever i look to purchase something i do several steps when considering buying from someone.First i check on any feedback from people who have purchased from him/her in the past(fauna,the site i found his/her ad and i ask several freinds).Second i read there responce to questions from possible customers.Third i read the comments they make about the quality of there breeding stock.Sometimes this takes awhile sometimes my decision is made in minutes on whether or not i do bussiness with this person.My decision on MKR was made the minute they mentioned that "these are the ugly majoves that we are selling for that price".By them making that comment i decided then i will NEVER purchase a thought from them.By them making this comment it shows they are interested in the money not the love of working with these animals :mad: .No matter what i hatchout i still am very happy to produce it and watch it hatchout and grow :sunny: .Perfect example,i was sooooo happy when my female laid her eggs from the breeding with my male pastel i thought i would die from stress befor they hatched :eek: .When they did hatch i thought some were pastels(i am color blind and misunderstood what they would look like) and i posted this here on this site.Yes i was heartbrokeing when they were confirmed as normals :( .I never made the comment that these were the ugly ones or they are not pastels so they are worthless.I proudly sold them as the healthy beautiful babies they were.My point here is majority of the people look for breeders that take pride in what they produce.Not the clown who point blank puts his love of the money to be made before the quality of his animals produced.So by MKR making the comment about the babies being ugly makes me question the quality of there stock.

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Originally Posted by bpkid

WOW! Those are really nice!

You are right about the quality of clowns then. I apologize for arguing about that.

BUT I still have not known of a person who was sent a sick unhealthy snake, or no snake at all :P from MKR.

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There's more to a good sales transaction with an animal than a) just receiving the animal you bought and b) it not showing up sick.

Things I appreciate when I'm shopping for anything: are the products displayed nicely, it is clear how much things cost or can I get pricing information easy, is the seller/store available for questions, are they friendly, do I have confidence that if something is wrong after I purchase or I have additional questions, that I can get them answered, do other people speak highly of the seller/store and/or their product?

Let's take fresh meat for example. I used to shop at big-chain-grocery store here in town. Why that one over the other 3, no clue...but the workers went on strike, so I had to find somewhere else to shop, so I tried all three of the other stores. Store A didn't even have a fresh meat counter; just prepackaged meat...no customer service, no select cuts. Prices were good, but meh...I couldn't pick out what I wanted. Store B had a huuuuuge selection and a fresh meat counter, but I never felt like I got good service, like I was wasting their time. Fine.

Then we come to Store C. Best meat in town, all the butchers know my name, I can ask their recommendation on cooking methods or when they'll have in my favorite cuts again. Guess what, the meat costs about $1 more a pound, but I'm a happy person when I walk away with my purchase.

I've never spoken to nor dealt with the folks at MKR, but I find their website unattractive (I hate distortion scaling on images), their snakes don't make me go "wow!" and I've read about a lot of people who have problems or complaints about them. That's enough to make me want to skip purchasing their product, even if it is cheaper.

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Originally Posted by cassandra

Things I appreciate when I'm shopping for anything: are the products displayed nicely, it is clear how much things cost or can I get pricing information easy

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Yes. Give them a call/email and they'll give you a price on whatever you want.

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Originally Posted by cassandra

is the seller/store available for questions, are they friendly, do I have confidence that if something is wrong after I purchase or I have additional questions, that I can get them answered

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They're definately available for questions. I called Wes to ask him what he thought about a problem I was having with one of my snake, and he gladly asnwered it even before realizing that he sold me anythnig (and, no, the problem was not with one of their snakes).

That is not to say that they shouldn't answer the questions regardless of if I purchased fromt hem or not. I just mentioned that they helped before knowing I made a purchase because I'm sure someone would have said that the only reason they asnwered is because I have an order with them.

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Originally Posted by cassandra

do other people speak highly of the seller/store and/or their product?

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Depends on who you ask. Plenty of people bash them because of how they dropped their prices so much, but if you talk to someone who has purchased from them most will have nothing bad to say.

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Originally Posted by cassandra

I've never spoken to nor dealt with the folks at MKR, but I find their website unattractive (I hate distortion scaling on images)

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I agree with you on this; I think their site sucks.

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Originally Posted by cassandra

their snakes don't make me go "wow!"

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The clowns they currently have available are rather ugly, but they definately did hatch some nice ones (like EbNs), and most of their genetic stripes are perfect.

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Originally Posted by cassandra

and I've read about a lot of people who have problems or complaints about them.

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Most of the complaints are about pricing. I have only heard one complaint about an animal someone recieved. It was a VPI axanthic, and it was a somewhat picky eater. They sent them another VPI axanthic for free, and let them keep the problem feeder.

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Originally Posted by cassandra

That's enough to make me want to skip purchasing their product, even if it is cheaper.

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There codom prices may be cheap, but all of their pricing definately is not like that. I paid $3,000 more for my stripe then most of the ones on KS are available for.


Now, with that said, Joe really is full of himself. He is very nice though (even if it is jsut because you're spending money with him), and will help you out if you really need it. He does come off as a bit of a nut, but everyone in that BOI thread is just as bad. To go into his thread and tell him he deserved to get $10,000 stolen from him is very childish, and completely uncalled for. That isn't karma. Karma would be more along the lines of him receiving the geckos, and then the breeder slashing his prices next year.

*scratching head*


hmm, from geckos to snakes.... so whats this thread about again?

Wow....i read that thread from start to finish. It is not because of what Ed or jas said, it is because of the way he made himself seem so self centered, selfish, arrogant, and rude that I will never do business with him. He is an ex-car salesman...and they're just as good as lawyers IMO (liars, and all about the $$$$)

I thought about going through each of his posts and quoting where he says he is the biggest and the best breeder out there, but that would take me way too long.

He mentions a half dozen times how he made 3/4 of a million dollars in 15 days, but he wants it to be a million in 20 days...well, He will not be getting any of my money.

Ed, Jas, I support you guys. Yeah at some time we all have to buy our snakes from somewhere. I see nothing wrong with that. From what I've seen you guys have contributed to this forum enough for me to know you're good people to deal with, and I will do so.

MKRs has begun something that will cause alot of problems in the reptile hobby.....they have become the "puppy mill" of the reptile industry....selling animals like they are items and not living creatures...and don't think for a second that it is anything other than a way to make money......i never thought I would see the day when someone takes the same approach to selling a snake as they would to sell a used car :(

The sad thing is that newer people to the reptile business do not see them as bad guys because they are making expensive animals available at lower costs. The new people will find out eventually that this is not good for the hobby.....and hopefully the hobby does not get hurt too bad before they do.

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Originally Posted by daniel1983

MKRs has begun something that will cause alot of problems in the reptile hobby.....they have become the "puppy mill" of the reptile industry....selling animals like they are items and not living creatures...and don't think for a second that it is anything other than a way to make money......i never thought I would see the day when someone takes the same approach to selling a snake as they would to sell a used car :(

The sad thing is that newer people to the reptile business do not see them as bad guys because they are making expensive animals available at lower costs. The new people will find out eventually that this is not good for the hobby.....and hopefully the hobby does not get hurt too bad before they do.

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This is my opinion also :(

I told a guy at a reptile show yesterday I was happy to see a $4,000 price tag on a pied. Pieds are my first breeding project. Yes, I would love to see some money come back. I would love to see the prices stay there for a while....but guys who are out to "get you the best deal" make me wonder if i should reconsider. I think I can see through this mess and keep pudging forward.

I want to have fun with this :)

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Originally Posted by nathanledet

I want to have fun with this :)

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That's what it all comes down to, I think, in the end. If you paid 10 million dollars for a spider and had fun breeding it, that's what matters.

If you paid 5 bucks for a spider and had fun breeding it, thats what matters.

I think people get caught up in the money so much they forget about the snakes.

yeah but the fact of the matter is if you have thousands invested in snakes and are not making money because of bullies, you must seek other alternatives. Sometimes that means selling your entire stock to pay bills.

I think its funny that it is said that selling an animal at a LOWER price will hurt the HOBBY. Think about that...any hobby at all if something costs less and you get the same thing...how does that hurt the HOBBY. The only thing I see hurting is the BUSINESS side of reptiles...NOT the HOBBY. If the animals are crap or being mistreated, malnurished, etc sure that could hurt the hobby but then most likely the animals wouldn't be selling

I am no way involved in this mess nor will I even read the BOI to form an oppinion. However I have a hard time putting myself in some of these positions: So next year I might have some hypo ball pythons I want to sell. I go to a couple shows and post some online adds and my price is the same or average as anyone else. My snakes aren't selling...why? Well who heck is "Warren Reptiles" no one's ever heard of them, no real reputation or familiar name there. So I lower my prices...OH NO! have I destroyed the ball python hobby!? NO. Have I possibly taken customers away from the big names and drawn some attention to myself...possibly. This is how BUSINESS works...not HOBBIES.

I really hate the fact that when an individual *gasp* names their own price on animals they "produced" that someone else has the gul to put them down. If there other surcumstances surounding it that's another thing but in general...everyone has to start somewhere and usually its with lower prices.

I hear ya man and it makes sence. Do you feel that ball pythons morphs will be another color selection at Petco? ie. an albino for $40?

I do not feel that way. but then again, i'm a n00b to the business of ball pythons.

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Originally Posted by nathanledet

I hear ya man and it makes sence. Do you feel that ball pythons morphs will be another color selection at Petco? ie. an albino for $40?

I do not feel that way. but then again, i'm a n00b to the business of ball pythons.

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Don't let people scare you. If you have a smart business plan and a love for the animals, you can have some fun and make some extra cash. Will you become a millionaire? Probably not. But very few will. However, you might make enough to take a couple vacations every year and maybe get that car you want someday. Let the Chicken Littles squawk about the sky falling and keep your focus on what YOU want to get out of it.

Im pretty sure im aloud to post this......this is a forum that they are always on.....and this is there program called MK T.V.!!


Watch it..listen..it cleared alot of things up for me. I know the real reason for selling the snakes so low..I understand there intentions...but I still dont like it.

If its not aloud please remove it !!

Link removed. Violates ToS

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I think its funny that it is said that selling an animal at a LOWER price will hurt the HOBBY. Think about that...any hobby at all if something costs less and you get the same thing...how does that hurt the HOBBY. The only thing I see hurting is the BUSINESS side of reptiles...NOT the HOBBY. If the animals are crap or being mistreated, malnurished, etc sure that could hurt the hobby but then most likely the animals wouldn't be selling

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Amen, I wonder exactly how many people who come on here get there first BP, like it and then plan to get a morph and breed actually go through with it and breed that morph regularly every year for 3 or more years. Not to bring anyone else into this but Garrick Demeyer set his prices lower than the market and I saw very few people complain. Is he bringing down the "Hobby" also. Just to put this into perspective we are talking about snakes not houses, clothing, or food. Keeping them is a luxary that we are lucky enough to have. The next time someone complains about the market and they just bought a spider or mojave, think how many people the money from that one snake could of helped.

what a terrible video.