Responsible live feeding

Oh god I hope this doesn't start one of those over zealous flaming threads but here goes...

What is the most responsible method of feeding live prey? I've heard one hour max in the cage and don't leave the two unattended. What about cage furniture? If there are a lot of items in the cage will that possibly lead to missed strikes causing the snake to either injure itself or get discouraged. Tips please?

I'm fully aware of this issue, and what a hot topic it is, so please, please don't start igniting your flame throwers. I may even build a co2 kill/stun chamber if it makes you feel any better. Thank you.

We strive to keep our debates civil around here. ;)


I don't leave a live rat in my bp's tub for more than 20 minutes. If she hasn't gotten it by then, then she's not going to.

My procedure is to place the rat in a small holding box (critter keeper) with some food and water to snack on. And that gets set right next to the snake's tub. That "wakes her up" so to speak and she is fully aware that dinner is somewhere close.

After about 30 minutes, I take the rat from the box and drop it in her tub. It's usually caught before it even hits the floor. :O

I don't feel it is necessary to remove the "furniture"....especially from a BP's enclosure because many of them can be somewhat timid feeders and that sort of disruption is more likely to put them off eating rather than help. Plus they often really enjoy ambushing the rodent from inside their favorite hides.

In a nutshell...
--make sure the rodent is fed and watered
--never leave for more than 20-30 minutes
--allow the snake time to know the rodent is in the room before introducing it

ahh Neumann that's the beauty of this place. It has become noticably acceptable to "do what works for you" (as 8ball Adam puts it)

It's been a while since i've seen one of those hard core debates around here. You're not in the wrong by feeding live. If you were, then so would thousands of others that are doing what works for them.

Judy has given you some great advice, as she always does. Good luck with your feedings! :gj:

Hey, don't worry about anyone flaming here...most of us feed live and advocate the method as completely safe so long as you have at least some common sense and take care of your animals properly. A healthy, well taken care of ball python will hit a f/t rat with just as much fury as a live feeder would.

I wouldn't remove any cage furniture at feeding time. Ball pythons are all about their environment, and a sudden change like removing a hide or other furnishings might throw them off a little bit. Allowing them to 'hunt' from their hides allows the ball to be in their court, so to speak, and will be a better situation for the snake overall. A snake missing a strike shouldn't discourage a feeding response. I've got snakes that hit the wall of their tub 2-3 time before I even slide open the tub because they are so ready for it.

Some snakes need a little more time with rats before they'll eat them, which is totally normal and varies from individual to individual. I'd say as a rule of thumb, if they don't take it right away, give them about an hour of darkness, undisturbed, and chances are there won't be a rat left in the tank after that.

Get to know your snake. Observe their behavior. You can learn a lot by just watching their body language. I've noticed that I can just 'tell' when a snake isn't interested in eating and I'll remove the rat. No big deal, try again next week.

Judy,

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Originally Posted by JLC

In a nutshell...
--make sure the rodent is fed and watered

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Please elaborate why.

Thirsty, hungry rodents are also angry, defensive rodents.

You want a fat, happy rat just stumbling around looking for a place to sleep. That's easy prey!

I believe the key to feeding live is 'prescenting'. I generally do this by setting the box of rodents on or near the snake rack about 30 minutes before offering anything. This gives the snake time to 'warm up'. With 'prescenting', you usually have a snake that is aware that a food item is present and is ready to ambush the rodent....even before the rodent is even put into the enclosure.

After I prescent the area with my live rodents for about 30 minutes, I generally just put the rodent in the enclosure. Moving stuff around in the enclosure, removing hides, etc.....just causes confusion and stress on the snake. They are ambush preditors in the wild....and by taking out their hides and such....you are removing their place to ambush from.

I keep an eye on everything for about 15-20 minutes, then take out any live rodents left over.

Larger rats tend to be more aggresive when threatened so, I would never feed anything a live food item over the size of a small rat. Most snakes can be maintained very well on just small rats anyway so that should not be a problem.

This works great for me. Like I said, I believe prescenting the area with the rodent scent is something that makes live feeding very easy and safe.

oh ya.....If you keep coastal carpet pythons, watch out when opening up enclosures after prescenting the area with rodents :devilish:

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Originally Posted by BPdad

Judy,


Please elaborate why.

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^^ What Brad just said. :P ^^

It's always great to see people checking on stuff they're not sure about. I remember that on another reptile forums a boy posted in anger about a mouse that had killed his snake, he left him alone to feed and when he came back an hour later to open the tub the mouse dived out and his bp had had his throat eaten out. IMO, ignorance is no excuse, you should always make sure that you're 100% sure about everything you do with your snake. Anyway, we'll stick with the happy vibes, here's hoping you get all the answers you want. Personally, I don't know anything about feeding live except it should be supervised.


Rabernet, where are you!?

:D the account formerly known as Lovable Sam

Just because the rat is going to be your snakes dinner, dosnt mean you shoudnt keep it fed and watered in the meantime.

Everything said has been great advice. I'll third or fourth or fifth the recommendation of pre-scenting. I thaw my rodents in the sink and then have them in front of heat lamps in my herp room, the excellent feeders are cruising around because it's dusk, the good feeders start cruising within 5-10 minutes, and the picky eaters don't do much of anything usually! Same goes for having live mice/rats in the room before feeding.

Imagine being woken up by a ground-rumbling earthquake and then having food shoved in your face. Sure, you'll appreciate the food when you finally wake up... but imagine how nice it would be to wake up to the smell of breakfast coming up from downstairs! I like to personify my snakes :P

In terms of removing furniture, I try not to for the reasons given above... but I have a couple that need to their hide lifted off them or pull up the newspaper to let them know something is on the go. This only lasts a while, and soon they'll become good eaters... but if all else fails, try it!

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Originally Posted by nathanledet

ahh Neumann that's the beauty of this place. It has become noticably acceptable to "do what works for you" (as 8ball Adam puts it)

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Who is this 8ball Adam? Sounds like a medical condition that this gentleman should see a doctor for.

ive fed my bp live prey since the day i got him. i used to feed him in a different enclosure, but now were both comfortable with each other to where i can feed him in his reg. tank. i drop the mice in there, and of course, i watch them both till the minute the mouse is compeletly gone. bp's have instinct. they can handle teh rest. but do make sure the mouse is the correct size for food.

Thank you all for the advice. I was somewhat hesitant about asking. I've had snakes for only three years or so and a royal for just over two. He's a 2 year old Bob Clark male with a reduced pattern and, to be quite honest, my favorite snake so I really don't want him harmed.

He was started out on live mice by Bob but I switched him to f/t mice and later small f/t rats. He's been a somewhat finicky eater for the last year but eats most of the time. He's never skipped more than one meal in a row. Which he gets every two or three weeks. Not bad for a Ball. His health seems quite good and he's never had a bad shed. He poo'd and shed a couple weeks ago but skipped his last meal which was after those events. He's currently 940 grams on empty (he was 793 in Feb). Since about August he's been the most active I've ever seen him so I suspect he's out looking for love and my not want a meal.

So here's the rub, now, after three years, my wife has become fed up with our freezer full of rats (which are just about all gone). I've been using Rodent Pro and Gormet Rodent. I won't lie it's expensive to have rats shipped to me. Now I can get live feeders here, cheap by comparison, but I will have to either feed live or euthanize them myself. Neither which I am apposed to but, if I go live, I would like to do it the proper way.

So... that's my story and I'm sticking to it. Thanks again for the responses.

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Originally Posted by jglass38

Who is this 8ball Adam? Sounds like a medical condition that this gentleman should see a doctor for.

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The 8ball adam pretty much screams the need for a broad spectrum antibiotic. Unfortunately I got bit a long time ago and haven't been able to get rid of it.

Whenever I've fed live I've used a seperate tub with nothing in it but paper. Mostly because I don't want a live rodent wondering around peeing and poopoo'n in my snake tubs. It also gives no place to hide for the rodent.

As long as you feed live responsibly, then you should be fine. Other fine members here have listed a few important things to do. I feed live - and I only leave the prey in about 20-30 minutes - if they haven't eaten in that time - Oh well, see you next week!

Nothing bigger than a small rat, pre-scenting, creating routines (feed same day of the week, at the same time, doing the same thing each time - for instance, everyone gets fed in the exact same order each week for me).

Just ask any questions you may have - and aren't you glad you asked now? ;)

i feed monty my 8 month bp live all the time. he only plays with pre-killed and frozen and wont go after them. and tonite i went to feed him and before i could even let go of the mouse he snatched it right out of my hand it was nuts i could feel the power behind his strike but o man was it cool it was his first full grown mouse and he loved every bit of it after that i put his hide back into his cage and he wrapped around my arm to get out the cage to see me. but i put him back in cuz i dont want him to regurg. and i know you need to leave them for at least 2 days in the cage after eating.