What do you guys thik about housing a burm and a blood together?

I ask because I recently visited a major international zoo. Their reptile husbandry seemed excellent in all respects but they have housed a big burm and a blood in the same enclosure. This seemed rather odd to me - I assumed all big snakes were very much keep in solitary.

All snakes should be kept in different enclosures. The zoo you went to must either have space issues or a reptile keeper who's not right in the head. Like our zoo, which has two Emerald Tree Boas in the same cage as poison dart frogs. What the heck?

Maybe the Emeralds and the frogs are from the same area in the wild? I don't know if this is true, just a guess to why they would justify doing it.

Maybe some zoos are like pet stores with reptiles.

Call them and ask them why, because I'm sure they don't feed in seperate containers, as a big burm would be WAY too big to get up and move to another container JUST to feed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bpkid

I'm sure they don't feed in seperate containers, as a big burm would be WAY too big to get up and move to another container JUST to feed.

---

I'd rather go through the trouble of moving my burm than trying to feed two snakes in one enclosure.

They have a lot of carefully set up multi species exhibits although none involving moe than one species of snake (actually for that matter snakes were always either alone in conspecific pairs) the burm/blood stood out as rather odd. This is abig zoo with an international reputation and a stronge concervation remit so I figured they ust know wosmehtign I didn't I may quietly email them and ask for comment.

Try and remember guys, not all zoos are on the up and up. Closing the Long Island Reptile Museum was one of the best things that could have happend for those animals...
He was in buisness a long time. Doesn't mean he was in the right.
Species should be kept seperate. Unless you have a proper viv setup. Frogs, toads, anoles.
Rusty

Burm and blood.....I have seen a large green anaconda with a rainbow boa ...corn snakes in with rattlesnakes......all in a large zoo. Generally, snakes do not mix with other snakes 99.9% of the time... and offer all sorts of problems so I never quite understood why they would want to do something like that. However....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JasonGranger

Like our zoo, which has two Emerald Tree Boas in the same cage as poison dart frogs. What the heck?

---

Actually, ETBs and dart/reed frogs are great for multispecies systems (however, only one ETB per enclosure is ideal). Since ETBs are aboreal and dart frogs are terrestrial, both will not consider each other as a threat or food source, they originate from similar environments, and are great display animals....that makes them ideal to go together in an multispecies system.

There is no problem with creating a multi-species enclosure as long as you are experianced enough to know the proper animals and environment to setup in the system (it all goes downhill when someone thinks they are experienced enough...but really are not). A successful multispecies vivaria is on of the hardest things to accomplish in herp husbandry and care, but when created properly by someone that is very experianced in ALL aspects of reptile care.....they can be a masterpiece. There are so many things that must be factored into what is designed...everything has to be fully planned before hand....it is not just throwing two or three animals in together....although thats what some people believe.

I have plans for some very nice multispecies vivaria in the future. However, the level of skill required for the enclosure that I plan on attempting will require way more knowledge than just the reptile know-how that I already have. This is just one of those herp husbandry and care things that you have to ease yourself into. With the first few that I have planned, I am trying to build up a knowledge base so I can go for the full effect a 5-6 years from now.....live plants....bioactive substrate...both land and water components...both nocturnal and diurnal animals.....5-6 different species ;)

LOL....As my first attempt, I tried using live plants in my cham enclosure...but they died in the first two weeks. I will get more plants....then try again until I have vivaria plant life completely figured out.....

...then next I will get into bioactive substrates with the monitors I plan on picking up....after that, I will be about halfway to learning how to setup and maintain the environment the way that I want....definately not just throwing two animals together in an enclosure.

LOL...I have it all mapped out....years of projects just to gain experience to setup one enclosure :devilish: If anyone else is interested in taking on such a task too....let me know....I love having people to share info and talk to about this stuff ;)

I saw a couple of pics of some one housing a 11ft red-tail and burm together

I saw a pic once with a HUGE Anaconda with a small Ball python.. but the man I knew was only joking when he put those two together. They were one big mass of snakes... well 98% was the Anaconda. only the small head of the ball python could be seen through the coils of the big baby. The Bp wasnt at all small when you help it though. She was HUGE for a Bp I guess. I'd guess she was close to 6ft and almost 15 yrs of age. And the guy only put the two together when there was a HUGE arguement over keeping different snake species together.. he didnt help the dispute at all... but I wouldnt even attempt to house snakes of different species or even of the same species together... too many problems and other complications happens.

Daniel, bioactive dirt for your monitors? i dont think thats really a good idea.

i dont know if you plan on keeping the feces in the cage but it should be removed regularly. i would just use dirt from nature with the natural bacteria to break down whatever may be left after you take the feces out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by daniel1983

Actually, ETBs and dart/reed frogs are great for multispecies systems (however, only one ETB per enclosure is ideal). Since ETBs are aboreal and dart frogs are terrestrial, both will not consider each other as a threat or food source, they originate from similar environments, and are great display animals....that makes them ideal to go together in an multispecies system.

---

I did not know that...! lol I guess you learn something new every day.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kurgan

They have a lot of carefully set up multi species exhibits although none involving moe than one species of snake (actually for that matter snakes were always either alone in conspecific pairs) the burm/blood stood out as rather odd. This is abig zoo with an international reputation and a stronge concervation remit so I figured they ust know wosmehtign I didn't I may quietly email them and ask for comment.

---

It's London Zoo, right? I was there recently, there was a small lizard in with 3 royals when I went and I wondered what the heck they were thinking. I'm not entirely convinced about them....

I went to see a small exibit at the New York Metropolitan Museum of Natural History, it was called LIVE reptiles something or another. But they did have some exibit cases with snakes being displayed together. I actually saw a green mamba and gaboon viper in the same exibit case. I was really confused as to why, seeing as how this is a major museum in New York. But I guess since the public is so uneducated on snakes there is no one to speak up against the improper husbandry.

They had 2 royals both kept alone. Some of the venomous snakes liek the gaboons and the mambas were kept in pairs of the same species, otherwise the only snakes kept with anything were the burm and blood.

So it wasn't London Zoo? No offence to people that like them but Gaboon Vipers are ugly things, scarily ugly, like fresh out a nightmare. The royals, though kept together in about fours, looked nice and fat and healthy. They also had some legless lizards, at the time I didn't know there were such things as legless lizards and I was looking round the tank going, "Where the heck are the lizards?" I went mad at a group of girls that were going round and smacking at the glass on the tanks, when whatever was inside looked up they let it have a good long flurry of flash photography. I asked them, "How would you like it if you were in bed and trying to sleep and a crowd of people started banging on your window and taking flash pictures that made your eyes go funny? It's like that for a snake but much worse because they don't know anything about what's going on" I'm glad to say I didn't see them doing anything to disturb the animals after that.

No it is London Zoo. I hadn't been for years so I don't know how things used to be. These days they have 2 (very pretty) Royals but both are kept on their own.

Each to their own - The Gaboon vipers are beautiful to my eyes, kind of like a cross between Moth and Snake :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kurgan

Each to their own - The Gaboon vipers are beautiful to my eyes, kind of like a cross between Moth and Snake :)

---

I agree, when I saw the Gaboon in person I was captivated by its pattern.

Today when I was looking at the local snakes in the New England area, I saw an article saying the Timber Rattlesnake can be found in den with other snakes. Here is the site for a decent read.

http://www.dec.state.ny.us/website/d...ec/tirafs.html

The bundles of snakes (like the rattler) is usu. during the winter months as a sort of hibernation den so that they conserve the little bit of body heat and share the burrow warmth. Once the weather warms up enough, they're solitary animals.

One snake, one cage unless you're breeding a pair. (not personally, mind you) :rolleye2:

:8:

Anything else is just asking for trouble.

The Toledo Zoo has some lovely exhibits, some with multi-species that seem quite appropriate. They do however house a large burm and a large retic together. Their "snake show" which we all were excited about and stayed hours to see...was a cornsnake! Yep, that's it...one little cornsnake they showed around (whooopdeeedoo lookie kids it's a cornsnake!!!!!). Needless to say even my 5 year old was majorily unimpressed with the snake show we'd promised him LOL.

They do have some lovely snakes on exhibit there though and some gorgeous naturalistic exhibits. Their gaboon viper is stunning as well as a number of other hots. All the snakes seem very well cared for. Other than the burm/retic being housed together, I'd say the Toledo Zoo does a pretty nice job with their snakes.

I know here in Washington DC for years and years as I was growing up the zoo had two HUGE retics living in the same HUGE enclosure. ( which was bigger than my whole house ) They seemed to do fine.

I would think National Zoos as oppose to private zoo's ie Long Island would be more educated and under more scurtiny than your average zoo. I mean most have very educated people who have spent their life learning and researching these types of things. I know some of the reptile staff at the zoo here as my father worked there for over ten years and they are highly educated professionals who would never sacrifice the proper care of the reps due to space shotages. Maybe they know something we don't.

LOL Franky, I know how you feel! A similar thing happened at London Zoo when I asked if there were any oppurtunities to see any of the snakes without the glass in the way, they told me to come back in an hour. I came back in an hours time and they let me stroke a pretty small corn snake. Seriously though, they wouldn't even let me hold it even when I told them that I'd looked after a much bigger corn (and a boa constrictor -allbeit a one-year-old one) over the summer and had somehow managed to pluck up the courage to handle such beasts. I was expecting to maybe be greated by a burm or at least one of the large female bps!