Best way to get started

What would you all suggest as a good beginning morph to get started with, without spending a ton of money?? Would hets be the way to go?? Thanks for the info all!

wildlifewarrior

Hmmmmm well Pastel's are pretty nice.

If you want to not spend a lot of money at first (like me), you have to find yourself a pair of 100% hets. I just bought a pair of 100% het Pied for just over $1000 (much cheaper than an actual pied, for about 4 or 5,000)

so in about 2 years, they will hopefully produce 66% het pied, and one pied.

The route i've chosen is a longer, more time consuming route because I can't just jump right into the morphs. I don't think anyone would recommend jumping right into high dollar snakes. Get some breeding experiance on your hands.

Het Albino's i see prices around 600 and 700 for a pair.

Good luck

Wildlifewarrior.....it all depends on what your definition of "a ton of money" is. And it depends on what kinds of morphs you're most excited about.


Pastels have come way down in price...so that's one way to get a visible morph right off the bat without spending too much money. (relatively speaking!) However, not everyone is excited enough about pastels to want to spend even that much money on them.

If you're really excited about albinos or pieds or caramels...the best way to go is to start with hets. If you want a visible morph right away, then look toward pastels or spiders. Spiders are still more expensive, but then again, as I said, it all depends on your definition of "expensive."

I am very partial to the pieds and high contrast albinos, so i guess hets would be the way to go, I am not looking to make a ton of money, just enough to balance food costs, without a large investment, of course i would love to have the acctual morphs to look at, but i know that will probably be a longer term situation like you said nathanledet. Besides i just graduated this spring from college and am still bouncing around with research jobs and desciding when and where to go to grad school, so money is on the tight side! which as you all can see by this smiley is a real kick in the...:groinkick
wildlifewarrior

We're in the same boat. I'm a poor college student but I know i've made an investment in something I take pride in and enjoy doing.

You can't go wrong with albino's or pieds as a first project. they're both excellent projects.

Keep in mind you will need to spend some money on a good tstat, maybe a good rack, a heating source, and quite a few other things before your snake can even be shipped to you.

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Originally Posted by nathanledet

We're in the same boat. I'm a poor college student but I know i've made an investment in something I take pride in and enjoy doing.

You can't go wrong with albino's or pieds as a first project. they're both excellent projects.

Keep in mind you will need to spend some money on a good tstat, maybe a good rack, a heating source, and quite a few other things before your snake can even be shipped to you.

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Don't forget the incubator. that will definetly come in handy. I am in the same boat as all of you. except i'm starting college after serving 6 years in the air force. so i invested in a det paired of pied's. I would love to get a het pair of het carmels...but my mom won't let me.

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Originally Posted by wildlifewarrior

What would you all suggest as a good beginning morph to get started with, without spending a ton of money?? Would hets be the way to go?? Thanks for the info all!

wildlifewarrior

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My first morphs are going to be a mojave and a pair of albino hets.

I would go with CoDoms because the price WILL go down on them, BUT usually their supermorph is SO amazing. Most CoDoms are amazing themselves too!

go with what you like to look at the best! co-dom or recessive. after cleaning tubs for 2,3,4 years you really need to like what you are seeing.


vaughn

Thank you for your service zinger.

O i know i will have to invest for the future, my only problem is that i am learning to be a field biologist, so i dont know where i am going to be every 5 months or so, I might be able to keep them in my brother's new house, though i would love to get a small project rolling now. But we'll see

Thanks for the input
wildlifewarrior

Hate to turn you off but if you don't know where your going to be 5 months from now maybe you should off on starting your bp collection.

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Originally Posted by wildlifewarrior

so i dont know where i am going to be every 5 months or so, I might be able to keep them in my brother's new house, though i would love to get a small project rolling now.

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Originally Posted by mike9452

Hate to turn you off but if you don't know where your going to be 5 months from now maybe you should off on starting your bp collection.

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Thanks bpkid.


I currently have 3 balls and 3 RES and a toad, i am still able to adequatly care for all my animals, i am not worried about that, i am thinking that the time i have for a HUGE collection won't be available, I am only thinking and asking about two maybe three snakes, and possibly a small ap rack.

thanks for the help huys!

wildlifewarrior

No problem.

Forgive a newbie question....but could someone clarify some of the terms that are being used here?


I absolutely love the piebald pythons I have seen, which I am assuming are the breed you are all referring to as "pied"...but what is the difference between a "pied" and a "100% het pied"....and why would the 100% het pied be so much less expensive than a pied?

Just trying to learn about the breeds.

Thanks!

-BT

a Pied is a visible morph, while het pied carries the gene to produce visible morphs. If you breed a 100% het pied to a 100% het pied, then the way genetics work out is if you produce 4 eggs, 1 would be a normal ball python, 2 would be 100% het pieds, and then 1 would be a visible pied. That's not how it always works out tho....you may get 4 normals, or 4 het pieds, or 4 pieds!
It's a game of luck. It's because hets are not a visible morph they're so much cheaper.

What I've done is I bought a pair of 100% het pieds. They're 06 babies, so it's going to take me a few years to get them to a breedable size. It takes time, but the investment is worth it.

Here's a link that uses Albino's for an example:

http://www.ballpython.ca/what_get/recessive.html

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Originally Posted by nathanledet

a Pied is a visible morph, while het pied carries the gene to produce visible morphs. If you breed a 100% het pied to a 100% het pied, then the way genetics work out is if you produce 4 eggs, 1 would be a normal ball python, 2 would be 100% het pieds, and then 1 would be a visible pied. That's not how it always works out tho....you may get 4 normals, or 4 het pieds, or 4 pieds!
It's a game of luck. It's because hets are not a visible morph they're so much cheaper.

What I've done is I bought a pair of 100% het pieds. They're 06 babies, so it's going to take me a few years to get them to a breedable size. It takes time, but the investment is worth it.

Here's a link that uses Albino's for an example:

http://www.ballpython.ca/what_get/recessive.html

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I really appreciate the reply and the link. It cleared a lot up.

1 more question if anyone knows the answer to this one. With so many combinations having the possibility to produce both "normal" and "het" offspring, which will visibly look exactly the same (or at least they seem to to me)...is there any way to find out which ones are the "hets"....which ones actually carry the mutated gene??

Thanks again!

-BT

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nathanledet

a Pied is a visible morph, while het pied carries the gene to produce visible morphs. If you breed a 100% het pied to a 100% het pied, then the way genetics work out is if you produce 4 eggs, 1 would be a normal ball python, 2 would be 100% het pieds, and then 1 would be a visible pied. That's not how it always works out tho....you may get 4 normals, or 4 het pieds, or 4 pieds!
It's a game of luck. It's because hets are not a visible morph they're so much cheaper.

What I've done is I bought a pair of 100% het pieds. They're 06 babies, so it's going to take me a few years to get them to a breedable size. It takes time, but the investment is worth it.

Here's a link that uses Albino's for an example:

http://www.ballpython.ca/what_get/recessive.html

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Nate,your normals would be 66% hets.

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Originally Posted by bjthomps

I really appreciate the reply and the link. It cleared a lot up.

1 more question if anyone knows the answer to this one. With so many combinations having the possibility to produce both "normal" and "het" offspring, which will visibly look exactly the same (or at least they seem to to me)...is there any way to find out which ones are the "hets"....which ones actually carry the mutated gene??

Thanks again!

-BT

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Not unless you breed them.

oops i just realized that..typing too fast...Thanks Joe!!

No there is no confirmed way to tell which ones are the hets. That is why you have to buy hets from a reputable breeder. there are scammers out there that will sell a 45 dollar snake for a few hundred dollars, and you won't know you've been scammed for at least 2 years (if it's a baby)

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Originally Posted by nathanledet

oops i just realized that..typing too fast...Thanks Joe!!

No there is no confirmed way to tell which ones are the hets. That is why you have to buy hets from a reputable breeder. there are scammers out there that will sell a 45 dollar snake for a few hundred dollars, and you won't know you've been scammed for at least 2 years (if it's a baby)

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No problem :P .

deleted

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Originally Posted by TheAudOne

So, then, what if *you* are the breeder?? For instance, when you breed your new hets in a few years....how will you know which offspring are 100% hets, and which are "normal" (only 66% hets according to Joe). Seems it would be very nice to know the difference...especially if you plan to sell the offspring. How does any breeder know they are selling a 100% het and not, say, a 66% het.

If there is no way to tell the difference....it seems the uncertainty would continue to carry over if you start breeding the offspring, too...

Forgive my curiousity, but my wife is quite interested in getting into this so I am trying to learn as much as I can. I would hate to invest in 2 het pied snakes (for example) and have them produce offspring that look normal, and have absolutely no idea which are 100% hets and which aren't.

Thanks for all the helpful responses!

-BT

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Well thats the thing with hets.

You never know which is normal, and which is het pied.THUS, all of the normal looking ones have a 66% chance of being het pied.

If you breed two Definate (100%) het pieds, you will still make some pieds.

So, then, what if *you* are the breeder?? For instance, when you breed your new hets in a few years....how will you know which offspring are 100% hets, and which are "normal" (only 66% hets according to Joe). Seems it would be very nice to know the difference...especially if you plan to sell the offspring. How does any breeder know they are selling a 100% het and not, say, a 66% het.

If there is no way to tell the difference....it seems the uncertainty would continue to carry over if you start breeding the offspring, too...

Forgive my curiousity, but my wife is quite interested in getting into this so I am trying to learn as much as I can. I would hate to invest in 2 het pied snakes (for example) and have them produce offspring that look normal, and have absolutely no idea which are 100% hets and which aren't.

Thanks for all the helpful responses!

-BT

(Accidently posted this under my wife's account - TheAudOne. That is why I deleted and reposted....sorry!) :cool:

So Shaun - If you breed 2 100% hets - what do you do with the offspring that look normal?? You can't say for sure which are 100% het and which aren't?


-BT

No way to tell unless you breed them.

That's why you breed ALL the females back to the father, so you can find out which one is het.

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Originally Posted by bjthomps

How does any breeder know they are selling a 100% het and not, say, a 66% het.

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The only possible way to have a 100% het is to breed a homozygous animal to either a normal or heterozygous. The different percentages come from the following:

Het x Normal = 50% Possible Het (All normal looking)
Het x Het = 66% Possible Het (in a 4 egg example, 1 Homozygous, 2 Hets, 1 Normal - thus... the 3 that look normal, are 66% possible hets.. and that is how they're marketed)

Homo x Normal = 100% Het (ALL Normal looking)
Homo x Het = 100% Het (1/2 Homo, 1/2 Het)

You can't have an animal that has a percentage "chance" of having the gene... they either DO or DO NOT, but because all of the offspring are normal looking, the percentages come in when deciding to sell or market the animals, or to breed them to prove them out.

Confused now? We all were at some point! :) :D