Feeding issues

I have 2 ball pythons - a 10yo and 9yo, very good, regular feeders.

When I got them, I fed frozen, but when each reached about 2 - 2 1/2 years old, they went off the frozen and since then have been eating live: 5 medium mice each every 10-12 days. That's not the issue; that's just background.

For many years now, I have fed them outside their tank (they share a 60 gal), each in a separate feeding box. Originally, I'd take one out, feed the other, then switch them, but Darby is a biter and I got sick of dealing with that, so I started feeding them in separate boxes. Much less time consuming.

However, I've got a baby on the way, and I don't have room for the feeding boxes. It's going to take some very creative space-saving engineering to enable me to keep the snakes in their 60gal tank.

Now, I don't know what to do about feeding them because I'm afraid to go back to in-tank feedings. Does anyone have any suggestions?

PS - When I say we're short on space, I'm really serious. We've got a 2-bedroom, 900 sq ft. house that's home to a menagerie with every useable corner taken up with some pet's bed. And we've got to get baby stuff in there, too.

WOW.

-adam

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Originally Posted by mj_romo

When I got them, I fed frozen, but when each reached about 2 - 2 1/2 years old, they went off the frozen and since then have been eating live: 5 medium mice each every 10-12 days.

For many years now, I have fed them outside their tank (they share a 60 gal), each in a separate feeding box. Originally, I'd take one out, feed the other, then switch them, but Darby is a biter and I got sick of dealing with that, so I started feeding them in separate boxes. Much less time consuming.



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Umm, They aren't eating because they are living together........

Get two rubbermaid tubs and keep tehm in there.... AND don't feed them 5 mice, get them one rat the same size around as the size around as your snakes... Feed them once every two weeks.

EDIT: In the words of Adam... WOW lol.

I don't really understand what your asking.
Are you putting a new snake in with your original two and want to know if you can feed them all in tank?
Rusty

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Originally Posted by bpkid

AND don't feed them 5 mice

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Why not?

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Originally Posted by bpkid

Feed them once every two weeks.

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Why?

-adam

Lol, read her other thread. She's having a baby, as in she's pregnant. Lol.

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Why not?



Why?

-adam

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5 mice are too much, unless they are the right size and whatnot. And its easier to just feed one properly sized rat.

10 days sounds like a schedule I would put a sub adult on. I wouldn't feed every 10 days in her case because she feeds 5 mice anyways... That sounds like power feeding to me.

The very best thing you can do...both for your snakes and for your family...is to get rid of that big ol' 60gal tank. Get two 42qt rubbermaid or sterelite tubs and make a home for each snake. You can stack the two tubs on top of each other....and this way each snake gets its own room...and you end up with much less space being taken up overall. And if each snake is in its "own room"...then you can feed them in their own enclosures without any fuss or muss.

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Originally Posted by bpkid

5 mice are too much

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Not true.

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Originally Posted by bpkid

That sounds like power feeding to me.

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And you would know how? Feeding once a week is fine.

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Not true.



And you would know how? Feeding once a week is fine.

-adam

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OK, you have more experience than me so you win ;). BUT if it were me, I would feed one rat every feeding, because IMHO, it's much easier to feed 1 rat a week than 5... not that much easier but if you are getting mice from a store or something and you are money tight, it could be cheaper and I've heard rats are better in nutrition.

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Originally Posted by bpkid

OK, you have more experience than me so you win ;). BUT if it were me, I would feed one rat every feeding, because IMHO, it's much easier to feed 1 rat a week than 5... not that much easier but if you are getting mice from a store or something and you are money tight, it could be cheaper and I've heard rats are better in nutrition.

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I heard the same on rats- but really i dont think there is any solid proof one way or the other as from what ive read several times here and on fauna.

who cares how many so long as the prey = widest girth of snake. that means a small rat for crowley or two mice that would equal the size of his girth. as far as every two weeks?? its kind of across the board here from what ive read everyone feeds 1/week

I've never heard of feeding adults 1 per week. I always thought that the older they get, the longer between feedings??

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Originally Posted by bpkid

I've never heard of feeding adults 1 per week. I always thought that the older they get, the longer between feedings??

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what the deuce? are you serious?
search tymez for ansli

EDIT:
Feed your Ball python one appropriately sized rat or mouse on a weekly basis. “Adequately sized” in the case of Ball pythons is a rodent of equal girth (width) to the thickest part of your snake.
from the caresheet..

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Originally Posted by bpkid

I've heard rats are better in nutrition.

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That's a myth.

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

That's a myth.

-adam

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Are you the Adam from the Mythbusters? I am the Jamie..I love my walrus mustache!

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Originally Posted by jglass38

Are you the Adam from the Mythbusters?

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No way ... I may have the funny, but I definitely lack the sexy to pull that one off.

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

No way ... I may have the funny, but I definitely lack the sexy to pull that one off.

-adam

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Thats too bad...I DO have the sexy to pull off the walrus mustache and the beret

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Originally Posted by jglass38

Thats too bad...I DO have the sexy to pull off the walrus mustache and the beret

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You make that beret look good!


-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

You make that beret look good!


-adam

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You should see when I work it with my flowered blouse. Ridiculous!

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I would feed one rat every feeding

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NO rats! I had nightmare issues with rats - they will attack the snake, and I won't have that happening again.

5 medium mice every 10-12 days works really well for them. They're healthy and glossy.

I don't know who thought they have a problem with feeding, they don't. They're regular, easy feeders. So long as food isn't around, they're even tempered and I don't have any problems with them. No digestion problems; they poop regularly; their sheds are on the clock. Their tank is well-maintained, I have proper heating and lighting.

The problem comes when it's feeding time. When Darby smells mouse in the house, he goes nutso (but increasing his feed to six mice just makes him re-gurg, so I know I've got the proper ratio). He'll strike at anything and everything during that time. It got so bad that I finally got a snake hook to use to move him during that time.

My concern is returning to feeding him in the tank and having him attack Calvin if I return her to the cage too soon after he's finished.

I would consider separate bins except that due to moving things around, they are now going to have to be on display in the living room and I do want something somewhat aesthetically pleasing.

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Originally Posted by mj_romo

NO rats! I had nightmare issues with rats - they will attack the snake, and I won't have that happening again.

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I feed about 400 rats a week, and have never had a rat attack a snake.

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

I feed about 400 rats a week, and have never had a rat attack a snake.

-adam

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Have you ever had a snake attack a rat? I hear that happens! :)

It's happened - more than once, in fact. Maybe I just got aggressive rats, but after the last attack, Calvin wouldn't eat rats anymore anyhow, so I switched to mice and have been fine since.

hmmmm. did you leave the rats in with the snake for an extended period of time, maybe even after the snake showed no interest?

Hold on, you don't want to seperate them so you could have something aesthis...whatever in your living room??

Have you ever tried frozen thawed???

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Originally Posted by mj_romo

I would consider separate bins except that due to moving things around, they are now going to have to be on display in the living room and I do want something somewhat aesthetically pleasing.

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I'm confused - are these pets that you want to provide the best possible care for, or are they for decoration in your living room? :confused:

Easy solution to your problem is quite simply to house them separately and feed in the enclosure. Not to mention - it will be better for your snakes to be housed separately.

I also feed live rats and mice, I've never had a problem with either, but then all my kids strike and constrict in less than 30 seconds.

You can still have "pretty" homes for them and house them separately. An adult BP doesn't need a 60gal tank to live in. Two 30gal would be more than enough for each of them. And if you separate them, I'll bet you dollars-to-donuts that the more aggressive one will calm down a bit.

How about a compromise here. You already have a 60 gallon and you already have two snakes. You could split that 60 in half. Give each snake it's own space and safety. Two hides and a water dish each side, heater on each end so they can get warm or cool off as needed. It could be done pretty easily and have lovely identical sides for each snake that would be both pleasing to your eye but offer the snakes their own space and cut down on the risks with communal housing. That way you can then feed in their own side if you wish or at least not introduce a snake in full hunting mode back in with another snake that it could easily turn on.

I'm sure Home Depot or Lowe's would sell something that could be used to seperate the tank and sealed to the glass with a safe aquarium sealant (mind the sealant you use...some are highly toxic). I'd suggest something the snakes can't see through easily so they aren't bothering each other as they move about. Maybe a nice sheet of black acrylic or something of that sort, that would look nice with the black edging on most tanks.

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Have you ever tried frozen thawed

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Yes, that's what they were both started on, but after a few years each refused to eat them anymore. And they'd regurgitate forced feedings, so I finally switched to live.

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I also feed live rats and mice, I've never had a problem with either, but then all my kids strike and constrict in less than 30 seconds.

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Mine strike quickly, but they aren't always clean strikes. The first time it happened, Calvin got the rat in such a way that it used claws to tear her up. The second time, she struck the rat from behind and it bit her rather severely. Both my vet and the local snake guy suggested mice were much less aggressive after that.

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You already have a 60 gallon and you already have two snakes. You could split that 60 in half. Give each snake it's own space and safety. Two hides and a water dish each side, heater on each end so they can get warm or cool off as needed. It could be done pretty easily and have lovely identical sides for each snake that would be both pleasing to your eye but offer the snakes their own space and cut down on the risks with communal housing.

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I like this idea and will look into it today. I'll check the petstore first and then the hardware stores.

I think you should really follow everyones advise on our forum , the problems you have are because of your husbandry. Just take awhile to study the caresheets and you'll be fine , I have 7 bp's and I've never had a regurg never had to force feed anyone and I never will. Force feeding should be a last resort for hatchling's which are very much in trouble also your bp's are adults why would you even think of force feeding them? A ball python can be a very long time without feeding.Hope you fix your situation and good luck.

Personally I'd check Home Depot or Lowe's first. Even if the pet stores sells something to split that 60 with (which I doubt they do), they'll charge you an arm and a leg for it. If you do the measurements, decide what medium you want to use to split the tub then hit one of those hardware type stores they usually will do your cuts for you to spec since a lot of things require a specialized cutting tool so they don't chip or split. They only thing you might need from a pet store that specializes in fish is the aquarium sealant. Also make sure your measurements are perfect as any space at the top will allow one snake to squeeze over into the other side. Also you'll probably need something to safely house them in while you rehab the 60 gallon as I'm not sure what the set time is for that sealant.

Split tanks are very hard to provide a proper temp gradient in ... and if it is worked out, it's terribly inefficient and a waste of energy/money in my humble opinion ... If you're set on a display tank, something purchased or custom made with a solid top and vented sides is much better and of course when it comes to maximum security/ease of use for your snakes, sweater boxes are where it's at.

-adam