Soon To Be New Owner(I hope!) Questions.

Hi there. While I've been watching--and researching!--these forums for the past several months, there are still a few questions I'd like to ask, because each new owner has special circumstances. I like to get answers to questions that I know are going to apply to my situation and no one elses. So, let me get started--.....

Oh. Yes. I'm Lauren. :D I guess I should get that out of the way first, huh? While this will be my first ball python that I've owned, it's something I've wanted since I was...gosh, 13? Ten(nearly eleven) years later, I think I'm ready for it! Now, to the questions!

I'm considering a BP, hopefully to be purchased at MARS this year. So that's my first question; I would prefer to buy from a buyer that is, at the very least, someone local to my area. I live in Glen Burnie; I'm about 10-20 minutes from Baltimore and Annapolis, give or take a few minutes. Are there any reputable dealers that you guys can suggest I should keep my eyes open for, while I'm at MARS? Which brings me to my next question...

I know MARS is a big event, and I'm slightly worried that the only thing I'm going to see while I'm there is going to be nothing but really expensive morphes, something I don't have the cash for, frankly. I'm sure some of you have been to MARS(or go regularly!)--is this something I should even be bothered with worrying about? I'm looking to get just a plain ol' normal BP, though believe you me when I say that I love some of the pictures of the reduced patterns I've seen floating around on the forums, of normals(Oh, those long back stripes, how I love them..!). Oh, this leads into another question...

While I understand what reduced is, I'm not 100% sure what 'blushing' and 'flames' are--I mean, I know they are patterns/colors/lackthereof! on snakes, but do you think you guys could give me a better explination(a visual would be even better!)?

Onto the topic of enclosures. First of all, what are good size dimensions for a slitherbaby? I've heard that getting something too big can be stressful, and I don't want that..and while I'm sure, one day, I'm going to want something nice and lovely to look at(AP, I'm thinking!), I've read that rubbermade/sterilite is a widely used enclosure; It's cheap, it holds humity well, and can be replaced easily as soon as the snake gets bigger. And while a glass tank would be aesthetically pleasing, I've heard it a bit harder to keep the humidity right--and they make sterilite that's virtually see-through anyway..
But I've a slight concern. I intend to use UTH pads for heating: Is this safe to use with plastic, no matter how heavy-duty, directly? Or should I put something between the pad and the plastic? I certainly DON'T want to melt it! Heck, should I decide to use a glass aquarium, for whatever reason, does the same still apply? Because I don't want to burn my new slitherbaby, either! And what is safe to put the heating pad, itself, on? The place I have in mind for the snake is atop a large metal trunk, that currently has a sheet across the top of it? Is that safe to put the UTH on, itself?

Substrate! Newspaper, while cheap and effective..well, it just doesn't look all that flattering, if you ask me. I've heard that aspen shavings are really good; I was considering using maybe a bottom layer of newspaper and cover that in the shavings..But then, earlier, I saw a video of someone who had apparently been simple shredding paper in a paper shredder(I believe they said it was junk mail, actually!), which I have. Which leads to this question: Is this safe? I've read there are concerns about substrate getting stuck to fur on rodents and then making it into the python's mouth, which is probably not a good thing..I imagine a paper cut in the mouth wouldn't be much funner(Though this is probably horribly unlikely)! And like pine is unsafe for snakes, I'm worried that...well, that if the paper got wet, who knows where it's been and what it's got on it.. Is this really safe? Or should I just stick to newspaper/aspen shavings and call it a day? Though I could probably make a newspaper last a loooong time if I shave that bad boy up..

My roommate and I(you'll probably see her show up on this thread and ask more questions!) are insane audiophiles..and we listen to music constantly. I wear headphones, but she doesn't have that luxury. It's not like we're talking booming, insanely loud bass here, or anything like that, but at night, she likes to keep it on--helps her sleep. During the day, it's very quite down here in the basement, but I don't want the snake to become stressed out by the music that's on at night--again, we're not talking about anything insanely loud or anything, but still, sound is sound, and snakes have ears too! ...Kinda. ..Sorta. Yea.

I think that covers most of my current questions. I think. I'm sure my roommate will come in here and think of PLENTY more to ask, don't worry.

I greatly, greatly appreciate all of you--reading this forum has really helped me in the past few months!

Wow....ok....let's see if I can remember what the questions were as I type... :P


1. Finding normals at MARS...NO PROBLEM! There'll be tons of normal babies to choose through. The earlier you get there, the better chance you have of finding a sweet striped or reduced pattern. But at any time, I'm quite sure you won't have any trouble finding lots of snakes to choose from.

2. Blushing is the faded spots along the dorsal (backbone) side of the snake. Some BP's have lots of obvious blushing, and some don't have any at all. Flames are the faded markings that come up from the belly, between the "alien heads" or splotches along the sides. They are usually vaguely "flame shaped"...hense the name.

3. A UTH controlled by a thermostat (or a dimmer switch at the least) will be perfectly safe on plastic.

4. Personally, I would not use shredded, ordinary paper as substrate. Ever had a paper cut? Can you image sliding through an entire "home" filled with paper edges? You can buy unprinted newspaper fairly cheaply, or something called "kraftpaper" that is brownish looking and has some texture to it. I'm using newspaper for my BP, and it works great...and since she's in an "ugly" ol' tub anyhow, I don't care if the substrate is pretty.

That's all the answers that come to mind, at the moment. Hope it helps some. :)

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Originally Posted by LSama

I'm considering a BP, hopefully to be purchased at MARS this year. So that's my first question; I would prefer to buy from a buyer that is, at the very least, someone local to my area. I live in Glen Burnie; I'm about 10-20 minutes from Baltimore and Annapolis, give or take a few minutes. Are there any reputable dealers that you guys can suggest I should keep my eyes open for, while I'm at MARS? Which brings me to my next question...

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Look for mites. I've never seen one before, but they should be very small and black. (If I am wrong, please correct me)Make sure the snake isn't opening it's mouth often to breathe. Also make sure it isn't anorexic or too skinny.

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I know MARS is a big event, and I'm slightly worried that the only thing I'm going to see while I'm there is going to be nothing but really expensive morphes, something I don't have the cash for, frankly. I'm sure some of you have been to MARS(or go regularly!)--is this something I should even be bothered with worrying about? I'm looking to get just a plain ol' normal BP, though believe you me when I say that I love some of the pictures of the reduced patterns I've seen floating around on the forums, of normals(Oh, those long back stripes, how I love them..!). Oh, this leads into another question...

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You should definately be able to find a normal at the show. I wouldn't worry.

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While I understand what reduced is, I'm not 100% sure what 'blushing' and 'flames' are--I mean, I know they are patterns/colors/lackthereof! on snakes, but do you think you guys could give me a better explination(a visual would be even better!)?

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Not too sure of flames, but blushing means that the snake has faded spots where it should be dark. (again, correct me if I'm wrong)

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Onto the topic of enclosures. First of all, what are good size dimensions for a slitherbaby? I've heard that getting something too big can be stressful, and I don't want that..and while I'm sure, one day, I'm going to want something nice and lovely to look at(AP, I'm thinking!), I've read that rubbermade/sterilite is a widely used enclosure; It's cheap, it holds humity well, and can be replaced easily as soon as the snake gets bigger. And while a glass tank would be aesthetically pleasing, I've heard it a bit harder to keep the humidity right--and they make sterilite that's virtually see-through anyway..

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Yup, tubs are way better than aquariums. Tubs aren't aesthetically pleasing, but why should an enclosure for a Ball Python be? Ball-pythons are generally shy and chances are, you won't see your snake out and about.

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But I've a slight concern. I intend to use UTH pads for heating: Is this safe to use with plastic, no matter how heavy-duty, directly? Or should I put something between the pad and the plastic? I certainly DON'T want to melt it! Heck, should I decide to use a glass aquarium, for whatever reason, does the same still apply? Because I don't want to burn my new slitherbaby, either! And what is safe to put the heating pad, itself, on? The place I have in mind for the snake is atop a large metal trunk, that currently has a sheet across the top of it? Is that safe to put the UTH on, itself?

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I wouldn't worry because if you have a thermostat/rheostat/dimmer, (Which you should have) the temperature won't get hot enough to burn the tub or aquarium.

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Substrate! Newspaper, while cheap and effective..well, it just doesn't look all that flattering, if you ask me. I've heard that aspen shavings are really good; I was considering using maybe a bottom layer of newspaper and cover that in the shavings..But then, earlier, I saw a video of someone who had apparently been simple shredding paper in a paper shredder(I believe they said it was junk mail, actually!), which I have. Which leads to this question: Is this safe? I've read there are concerns about substrate getting stuck to fur on rodents and then making it into the python's mouth, which is probably not a good thing..I imagine a paper cut in the mouth wouldn't be much funner(Though this is probably horribly unlikely)! And like pine is unsafe for snakes, I'm worried that...well, that if the paper got wet, who knows where it's been and what it's got on it.. Is this really safe? Or should I just stick to newspaper/aspen shavings and call it a day? Though I could probably make a newspaper last a loooong time if I shave that bad boy up..

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I would just use newspaper/aspen. I don't know if shredded paper is good.

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My roommate and I(you'll probably see her show up on this thread and ask more questions!) are insane audiophiles..and we listen to music constantly. I wear headphones, but she doesn't have that luxury. It's not like we're talking booming, insanely loud bass here, or anything like that, but at night, she likes to keep it on--helps her sleep. During the day, it's very quite down here in the basement, but I don't want the snake to become stressed out by the music that's on at night--again, we're not talking about anything insanely loud or anything, but still, sound is sound, and snakes have ears too! ...Kinda. ..Sorta. Yea.

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You could keep the snake somewhere where she doesn't listen to music. They can get stressed by the vibrations.

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I greatly, greatly appreciate all of you--reading this forum has really helped me in the past few months!

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Me too! Except they've helped me for years :P LOL

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Originally Posted by LSama

Hi there. While I've been watching--and researching!--these forums for the past several months, there are still a few questions I'd like to ask, because each new owner has special circumstances. I like to get answers to questions that I know are going to apply to my situation and no one elses. So, let me get started--.....

Oh. Yes. I'm Lauren. :D I guess I should get that out of the way first, huh? While this will be my first ball python that I've owned, it's something I've wanted since I was...gosh, 13? Ten(nearly eleven) years later, I think I'm ready for it! Now, to the questions!

I'm considering a BP, hopefully to be purchased at MARS this year. So that's my first question; I would prefer to buy from a buyer that is, at the very least, someone local to my area. I live in Glen Burnie; I'm about 10-20 minutes from Baltimore and Annapolis, give or take a few minutes. Are there any reputable dealers that you guys can suggest I should keep my eyes open for, while I'm at MARS? Which brings me to my next question...

I know MARS is a big event, and I'm slightly worried that the only thing I'm going to see while I'm there is going to be nothing but really expensive morphes, something I don't have the cash for, frankly. I'm sure some of you have been to MARS(or go regularly!)--is this something I should even be bothered with worrying about? I'm looking to get just a plain ol' normal BP, though believe you me when I say that I love some of the pictures of the reduced patterns I've seen floating around on the forums, of normals(Oh, those long back stripes, how I love them..!). Oh, this leads into another question...

While I understand what reduced is, I'm not 100% sure what 'blushing' and 'flames' are--I mean, I know they are patterns/colors/lackthereof! on snakes, but do you think you guys could give me a better explination(a visual would be even better!)?

Onto the topic of enclosures. First of all, what are good size dimensions for a slitherbaby? I've heard that getting something too big can be stressful, and I don't want that..and while I'm sure, one day, I'm going to want something nice and lovely to look at(AP, I'm thinking!), I've read that rubbermade/sterilite is a widely used enclosure; It's cheap, it holds humity well, and can be replaced easily as soon as the snake gets bigger. And while a glass tank would be aesthetically pleasing, I've heard it a bit harder to keep the humidity right--and they make sterilite that's virtually see-through anyway..
But I've a slight concern. I intend to use UTH pads for heating: Is this safe to use with plastic, no matter how heavy-duty, directly? Or should I put something between the pad and the plastic? I certainly DON'T want to melt it! Heck, should I decide to use a glass aquarium, for whatever reason, does the same still apply? Because I don't want to burn my new slitherbaby, either! And what is safe to put the heating pad, itself, on? The place I have in mind for the snake is atop a large metal trunk, that currently has a sheet across the top of it? Is that safe to put the UTH on, itself?

Substrate! Newspaper, while cheap and effective..well, it just doesn't look all that flattering, if you ask me. I've heard that aspen shavings are really good; I was considering using maybe a bottom layer of newspaper and cover that in the shavings..But then, earlier, I saw a video of someone who had apparently been simple shredding paper in a paper shredder(I believe they said it was junk mail, actually!), which I have. Which leads to this question: Is this safe? I've read there are concerns about substrate getting stuck to fur on rodents and then making it into the python's mouth, which is probably not a good thing..I imagine a paper cut in the mouth wouldn't be much funner(Though this is probably horribly unlikely)! And like pine is unsafe for snakes, I'm worried that...well, that if the paper got wet, who knows where it's been and what it's got on it.. Is this really safe? Or should I just stick to newspaper/aspen shavings and call it a day? Though I could probably make a newspaper last a loooong time if I shave that bad boy up..

My roommate and I(you'll probably see her show up on this thread and ask more questions!) are insane audiophiles..and we listen to music constantly. I wear headphones, but she doesn't have that luxury. It's not like we're talking booming, insanely loud bass here, or anything like that, but at night, she likes to keep it on--helps her sleep. During the day, it's very quite down here in the basement, but I don't want the snake to become stressed out by the music that's on at night--again, we're not talking about anything insanely loud or anything, but still, sound is sound, and snakes have ears too! ...Kinda. ..Sorta. Yea.

I think that covers most of my current questions. I think. I'm sure my roommate will come in here and think of PLENTY more to ask, don't worry.

I greatly, greatly appreciate all of you--reading this forum has really helped me in the past few months!

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Welcome!! Lots of good questions. I am sure you won't have a problem finding a nice normal BP! Find someone selling a nice CB baby that is well started (eating regularly). I am sure there will be some suggestions on breeders. Since I like to whore myself, I happen to have a very special yearling male that needs a permanent home. :) As far as your questions:

A UTH that is properly controlled by a thermostat (or at the least a rheostat) is perfectly safe to use with a rubbermaid/sterilite container. You can certainly make a glass tank work but it takes a bit more effort. When I got my first BP I kept him in a 20L with a screen top. He eat every week and shed perfectly fine. That said, plastic containers are WAY more foolproof.

If you keep the snake off the subwoofer, all should be fine. Booming bass might be an issue but a little music at normal (or elevated) volumes isn't going to cause a huge problem.

As far as substrate, there are quite a few that work. Aspen bedding, carefresh or newspaper among others.



Best of luck and feel free to ask any more questions!

Jamie

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Originally Posted by jglass38

Welcome!! Lots of good questions. I am sure you won't have a problem finding a nice normal BP! Find someone selling a nice CB baby that is well started (eating regularly). I am sure there will be some suggestions on breeders. Since I like to whore myself, I happen to have a very special yearling male that needs a permanent home.

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As soon as I get more comfortable with having snakes, then maybe..I just can't resist having a slitherbaby though--they're so tiny!

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As far as your questions:

A UTH that is properly controlled by a thermostat (or at the least a rheostat) is perfectly safe to use with a rubbermaid/sterilite container. You can certainly make a glass tank work but it takes a bit more effort. When I got my first BP I kept him in a 20L with a screen top. He eat every week and shed perfectly fine. That said, plastic containers are WAY more foolproof.

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Oh, thank goodness! This was something I was worried about, the whole putting the UTH directly against the plastic. I mean, I knew it was pretty heavy duty stuff and all, yea, but still. I'm not going to worry about something really big/fancy to put the soon to be acquired Julius Squeezer into( ;_; My roommate won't let me name our snake that, the big meanie)until he's pretty much full sized. Then I'll worry about a boaphile or AP.

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If you keep the snake off the subwoofer, all should be fine. Booming bass might be an issue but a little music at normal (or elevated) volumes isn't going to cause a huge problem.

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Good, good--because while there is never any booming bass around here, nor is the volume kept very loud--I'm not sure how well my roommate would be able to survive without her music. It's very theraputic for the both of us.

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As far as substrate, there are quite a few that work. Aspen bedding, carefresh or newspaper among others.

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I'm thinking I'll be going with the Aspen bedding/newpaper 'lining' combo. I think it'll do a fine job, in the long run. Granted, that means I'mma have to start stocking up on newspapers, but I think I can handle that!!

Thank you so very much for your input!

I wouldn't even really bother with a Boaphile or AP, there are tubs big enough to house large adults.

Oh, I know--but this isn't going to be some hobby thing--I want something that's going to look nice, that's going to be pretty much a permanent home; Otherwise, no, I wouldn't bother at all.

well i got the photos of blushing and flames...

hope this helps...

Blushing: this female shows some great blushing on her back shown in blue.
http://www.hexibase.com/~jessica/blushing.jpg

and here are a few photosof Flames.. not the best but you might get the idea. shown in red.
http://www.hexibase.com/~jessica/flames.jpg

OOoooooh, now I see! Those are awesome examples, I get what you're referring to now. ^_^ Thank you very much!

Snakes do not have ears. They can feel/sense vibrations though.

Oh, I know that. It was a joke. Kinda. Sorta....Yea.

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I'm sure my roommate will come in here and think of PLENTY more to ask, don't worry.

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That would be me! As the more level-headed of the two, I'm glad she drug me over here and made me start reading in preparation for this. I've been a fan of snakes for a long time now, so finally making the plans to acquire one is a big thing we're both reall excited about!

Yeah, questions...

First and foremost, I'm a bit worried about temperature. I absolutely understand the need for constant heating, and have picked up that having two different temperature regions is important, too (one section/half slightly cooler than the other). What concerns me more is the temperature outside the enclosure. LSama forgot to mention that our shared space is a basement. We keep it pretty cool down here year around... is this something we're going to have to change?

I've also seen it mentioned more than once that BPs are "shy"; how shy are we talking here? I understand that each critter is unique, but in general - temperment-wise - is too much handling going to be stressful for them? I don't know about her (or any of you for that matter!) but I'm going to have a pretty hard time keeping my hands off! I will if I have to, of course, but how sociable can we be with the "slitherbaby"?

Also, thanks for the reassurance about the music. I admit it, I'm an addict - but my cravings are far more melodic than bass-ic, and knowing that both reptile and audiophile can cohabitate eases my mind considerably.

Oh, and backing up a bit, on the topic of 'shy' snakes and stress and whatnot... lets talk about kids. Okay, just one kid. One very well behaved, intelligent and inquisitive seven year old little girl (those are LSama's words, verbatim). She's never really seen a snake close up, and while she rarely comes down into the basement... well, how has anyone here handled the acclimation between snake and child, making it as un-stressful as possible for BOTH?

That's about it for now, but I betcha there'll be more questions before we're off to MARS!

Ah, don't mind her - or me, for that matter. We really are smarter than we sound. We're just... erm... silly. Yeah, that's the ticket. Hence "slitherbaby"...

... and no, we are NOT going to name him Julius, L. I forbid it.

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Originally Posted by Mygaera

First and foremost, I'm a bit worried about temperature. I absolutely understand the need for constant heating, and have picked up that having two different temperature regions is important, too (one section/half slightly cooler than the other). What concerns me more is the temperature outside the enclosure. LSama forgot to mention that our shared space is a basement. We keep it pretty cool down here year around... is this something we're going to have to change?

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Don't worry about the outside temps, as long as the inside temps are fine.

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Originally Posted by Mygaera

I've also seen it mentioned more than once that BPs are "shy"; how shy are we talking here? I understand that each critter is unique, but in general - temperment-wise - is too much handling going to be stressful for them? I don't know about her (or any of you for that matter!) but I'm going to have a pretty hard time keeping my hands off! I will if I have to, of course, but how sociable can we be with the "slitherbaby"?

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Too much handling can stress them, but some snakes tolerate it pretty well, it depends on the snake.

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Originally Posted by Mygaera

Oh, and backing up a bit, on the topic of 'shy' snakes and stress and whatnot... lets talk about kids. Okay, just one kid. One very well behaved, intelligent and inquisitive seven year old little girl (those are LSama's words, verbatim). She's never really seen a snake close up, and while she rarely comes down into the basement... well, how has anyone here handled the acclimation between snake and child, making it as un-stressful as possible for BOTH?

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Don't worry about it, as long as the child knows how to handle it, and you are watching, it is not a problem.

Oh, I hate to be the one to open THIS can of worms..but after reading around some more, I've got another question. One I'm going to HATE asking...

In the beginning, I had planned doing f/t feedings, but I've read a few horror stories that say that people were having mice/rats BURST OPEN?!!?

Someone please tell me this is a rare occurance, 'cause while it doesn't exactly squick me out, I'm not keen on the idea of it happening to me.

Now, moving to the next question, involving this: I found the thread about using dry ice to humanely kill rats and it sounds really easy and painless. So let's say I could do that. After you euthanize a rat in such a way, is there any amount of time that you should/have to wait before feeding that rat to the snake? I mean, I know CO2 is a gas and all, but is there any way that 'residue' could affect the snake? Or myself? I know I should never touch dry ice with my bare hands, but when I open the container holding rat and ice, is there any chance that the escaping fumes could hurt me?

(I never took chemistry, so if that last question makes me look ENTIRELY STUPID, I understand completely, don't worry. :3 )

It's also been said that the dry ice doesn't last long--it wouldn't last overnight in a freezer or anything, but how long, estimated, does it last? Or, in the words of Bill Engvall, on Dissolving Toilet Paper, "Just how rapidly are we talking, here?"

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Originally Posted by LSama

In the beginning, I had planned doing f/t feedings, but I've read a few horror stories that say that people were having mice/rats BURST OPEN?!!?

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Yup, it happens. It isn't frequent.

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Now, moving to the next question, involving this: I found the thread about using dry ice to humanely kill rats and it sounds really easy and painless. So let's say I could do that. After you euthanize a rat in such a way, is there any amount of time that you should/have to wait before feeding that rat to the snake? I mean, I know CO2 is a gas and all, but is there any way that 'residue' could affect the snake? Or myself? I know I should never touch dry ice with my bare hands, but when I open the container holding rat and ice, is there any chance that the escaping fumes could hurt me?

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I have no idea about this.LOL

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Originally Posted by bpkid

Yup, it happens. It isn't frequent.

I have no idea about this.LOL

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Boy, that dry ice is looking better and better with each passing second--regardless of whether or not Mygaera finds me KO'd on the floor one day due to fumes. I mean, I SERIOUSLY doubt that it woud do me any harm--rats are ittybitty and it takes less to kill them, but still..

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Originally Posted by LSama

Boy, that dry ice is looking better and better with each passing second--regardless of whether or not Mygaera finds me KO'd on the floor one day due to fumes. I mean, I SERIOUSLY doubt that it woud do me any harm--rats are ittybitty and it takes less to kill them, but still..

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You could always buy bulk frozen rodents.

Yea, but then I run the risk of them exploding on me! And honestly, the idea of doing it with the dry ice DOES sound more appealing, to me. I'll ask around at a few other places.

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Originally Posted by LSama

Hi there. While I've been watching--and researching!--these forums for the past several months, there are still a few questions I'd like to ask, because each new owner has special circumstances. I like to get answers to questions that I know are going to apply to my situation and no one elses. So, let me get started--.....

Oh. Yes. I'm Lauren. :D I guess I should get that out of the way first, huh? While this will be my first ball python that I've owned, it's something I've wanted since I was...gosh, 13? Ten(nearly eleven) years later, I think I'm ready for it! Now, to the questions!

I'm considering a BP, hopefully to be purchased at MARS this year. So that's my first question; I would prefer to buy from a buyer that is, at the very least, someone local to my area. I live in Glen Burnie; I'm about 10-20 minutes from Baltimore and Annapolis, give or take a few minutes. Are there any reputable dealers that you guys can suggest I should keep my eyes open for, while I'm at MARS? Which brings me to my next question...

I know MARS is a big event, and I'm slightly worried that the only thing I'm going to see while I'm there is going to be nothing but really expensive morphes, something I don't have the cash for, frankly. I'm sure some of you have been to MARS(or go regularly!)--is this something I should even be bothered with worrying about? I'm looking to get just a plain ol' normal BP, though believe you me when I say that I love some of the pictures of the reduced patterns I've seen floating around on the forums, of normals(Oh, those long back stripes, how I love them..!). Oh, this leads into another question...

While I understand what reduced is, I'm not 100% sure what 'blushing' and 'flames' are--I mean, I know they are patterns/colors/lackthereof! on snakes, but do you think you guys could give me a better explination(a visual would be even better!)?

Onto the topic of enclosures. First of all, what are good size dimensions for a slitherbaby? I've heard that getting something too big can be stressful, and I don't want that..and while I'm sure, one day, I'm going to want something nice and lovely to look at(AP, I'm thinking!), I've read that rubbermade/sterilite is a widely used enclosure; It's cheap, it holds humity well, and can be replaced easily as soon as the snake gets bigger. And while a glass tank would be aesthetically pleasing, I've heard it a bit harder to keep the humidity right--and they make sterilite that's virtually see-through anyway..
But I've a slight concern. I intend to use UTH pads for heating: Is this safe to use with plastic, no matter how heavy-duty, directly? Or should I put something between the pad and the plastic? I certainly DON'T want to melt it! Heck, should I decide to use a glass aquarium, for whatever reason, does the same still apply? Because I don't want to burn my new slitherbaby, either! And what is safe to put the heating pad, itself, on? The place I have in mind for the snake is atop a large metal trunk, that currently has a sheet across the top of it? Is that safe to put the UTH on, itself?

Substrate! Newspaper, while cheap and effective..well, it just doesn't look all that flattering, if you ask me. I've heard that aspen shavings are really good; I was considering using maybe a bottom layer of newspaper and cover that in the shavings..But then, earlier, I saw a video of someone who had apparently been simple shredding paper in a paper shredder(I believe they said it was junk mail, actually!), which I have. Which leads to this question: Is this safe? I've read there are concerns about substrate getting stuck to fur on rodents and then making it into the python's mouth, which is probably not a good thing..I imagine a paper cut in the mouth wouldn't be much funner(Though this is probably horribly unlikely)! And like pine is unsafe for snakes, I'm worried that...well, that if the paper got wet, who knows where it's been and what it's got on it.. Is this really safe? Or should I just stick to newspaper/aspen shavings and call it a day? Though I could probably make a newspaper last a loooong time if I shave that bad boy up..

My roommate and I(you'll probably see her show up on this thread and ask more questions!) are insane audiophiles..and we listen to music constantly. I wear headphones, but she doesn't have that luxury. It's not like we're talking booming, insanely loud bass here, or anything like that, but at night, she likes to keep it on--helps her sleep. During the day, it's very quite down here in the basement, but I don't want the snake to become stressed out by the music that's on at night--again, we're not talking about anything insanely loud or anything, but still, sound is sound, and snakes have ears too! ...Kinda. ..Sorta. Yea.

I think that covers most of my current questions. I think. I'm sure my roommate will come in here and think of PLENTY more to ask, don't worry.

I greatly, greatly appreciate all of you--reading this forum has really helped me in the past few months!

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Here's a few photo's to illustrate (pics worth a thousand words sort of thing).

Acu-Rite from WalMart....$12 plus one AAA battery...these things are golden to monitor your temps and humidity. You place the actual unit on your cooler side, run the long thin probe cord out and back into the tub and tuck the probe into your warmer side hide. Push a few buttons and you get IN Temp which is your cool side, OUT temp which is your warmer side inside the hide and tub humidity. You can use velcro to attach the unit to the tub...never use any type of tape...none of it is safe around snakes.
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e2...g/Acu-Rite.jpg

One of our typical baby tubs. Very simple...two hides, one water dish, newspaper substrate and an Acu-Rite. You could just as easily use Aspen though. Just make sure the tub has a very secure lid or you add heavy clips, bungie cord, etc. Snakes are escape artists and anything more than 1/8" give they can slither out (especially babies). There is a baby BP in this tub in this pic btw. She was snoozing away in her hide and probably never noticed I was snapping pics.
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e2...MuirnesTub.jpg

Newspaper trick you'll likely have read about here. Helps settle in nervous snakes of all ages.
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e2...ickTopView.jpg

Another hide idea for bigger snakes. Just a heavy black rubber dog dish with an entrance cut out and aspen for substrate (see happy snoozing snake LOL)
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e2...irseinHide.jpg

One of our adult females in her big tub. This tub is 39 x 19 x 6.5 and easily fit her 2,000 gram, 4 foot size.
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e2...nnaghinTub.jpg

Handy little totes you can find anywhere (WalMart, dollar stores, etc). Melt a few holes with a soldering wand (another must have purchase....got mine from WalMart for $6.00). These are great for taking to the show to bring your baby home in, putting her in while cleaning her home, vet visits, etc. They came in a few sizes and run around $3 to $6
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e2...nsportCage.jpg

You can spend a small fortune at a pet store but I'd suggest going plain and easy for a baby BP setup. Looks are second to efficiency when you are getting used to these unique pets and you want everything in it's environment stable so that you encourage it to eat well. A lot of refusals to eat are rooted in poor husbandry so simple tub setups tend to cut that issue down a lot for new owners.

I would suggest getting all your supplies together and setting up the tub complete with a full water dish for a week. Let it sit at least 24 hours then start tweaking to get your desired goal of cool side 82-84 degrees, warm side 92-94degrees and ambient humidity of about 50-60%. Far easier to be doing this well before you actually get the new baby snake in. That way you can add more vent holes if you need, bump or lower temps, etc. quite easily.

Congrats on planning so well in advance and welcome to BPNet!

Awesome info as always, Jo! Has somebodied stickied that yet!?

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Originally Posted by Mygaera

That would be me! As the more level-headed of the two, I'm glad she drug me over here and made me start reading in preparation for this. I've been a fan of snakes for a long time now, so finally making the plans to acquire one is a big thing we're both reall excited about!

Yeah, questions...

First and foremost, I'm a bit worried about temperature. I absolutely understand the need for constant heating, and have picked up that having two different temperature regions is important, too (one section/half slightly cooler than the other). What concerns me more is the temperature outside the enclosure. LSama forgot to mention that our shared space is a basement. We keep it pretty cool down here year around... is this something we're going to have to change?

I've also seen it mentioned more than once that BPs are "shy"; how shy are we talking here? I understand that each critter is unique, but in general - temperment-wise - is too much handling going to be stressful for them? I don't know about her (or any of you for that matter!) but I'm going to have a pretty hard time keeping my hands off! I will if I have to, of course, but how sociable can we be with the "slitherbaby"?

Also, thanks for the reassurance about the music. I admit it, I'm an addict - but my cravings are far more melodic than bass-ic, and knowing that both reptile and audiophile can cohabitate eases my mind considerably.

Oh, and backing up a bit, on the topic of 'shy' snakes and stress and whatnot... lets talk about kids. Okay, just one kid. One very well behaved, intelligent and inquisitive seven year old little girl (those are LSama's words, verbatim). She's never really seen a snake close up, and while she rarely comes down into the basement... well, how has anyone here handled the acclimation between snake and child, making it as un-stressful as possible for BOTH?

That's about it for now, but I betcha there'll be more questions before we're off to MARS!

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Glad you're here too. Sounds like the new snake will be beautifully cared for as you both are so dedicated to understanding it's unique needs.

The temp issues should be covered in my response to your roomie. If you get your setup all done well before you get the snake you can figure out what you need to tweak to hit the desired environment. It does take time to set it all up and best do that without stressing a new baby while you mess with the tank.

As far as handling remember it's for us humans not the snake. They do need handling but they can learn to tolerate it. Just remember the baby is a baby...it needs to adjust...learn you are not the predators that it's instincts say you are. Short handling sessions of no more than a few quiet moments are best. Don't handle at all the first week or until you have a few successful feeds into it. Priority is eating, handling will come in time and this snake will be around for many years so lots of time for that really. Never handle for 48 hours after it eats as it's busy digesting then.

We have kids and we find that for them snake handling is a pure joy. They did have to learn that a snake is not a puppy or kitten and that getting to hold the snake is a present from the snake...a gift it allows. If they don't act responsibly, they don't get the gift of handling. It helps to bring home books from the library as children are so inquisitive. If you keep reminding your daughter that this is a very special pet and needs very special things and then let her participate in watering, etc. that often helps. Also looking at pics online and discussing how they poop, pee, eat, shed is very cool for kids. Promise that she can take the first shed to school or pics of the baby to show her friends. Remind her that she is HUGE to the baby snake and needs to remember to not scare the baby or it won't learn she is a friend that won't hurt it. Always closely supervise handling with kids and remember to wash with soap and water or anti-bacterial hand wash gel anytime the touch the snake or help clean it's enclosure.

Again a pic. Our 5 year old son handling one of our snakes (male BP at about 10 months old). He considers it a very big deal and is always proud of himself (often says "look mom I did it right and the snake likes me now!) Mikey knows he must be sitting down to hold a snake, not to try to touch their heads too much and to use one arm/hand to keep a firm hold on the snake while he gently strokes it. I think interacting with snakes is great for kids. They learn respect for difference in pets, patience, empathy, etc. as well as the predator/prey dynamic (letting them watch a feed, especially a live one is up to you and sometimes dependent on age/maturity...our 5 year old for instance does not watch our live feeds as he helps raise our rat colony and is very bonded to the baby rats right now).

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e2...MikeyMay06.jpg

Couple more things....

As far as what to get for a baby snake, since you have a child I'll use that as an example. You know when you are preparing for your first baby you get told the million and one things you ABSOLUTELY MUST have. Then you find out realistically you need a decent crib, a sturdy stroller, diapers, onesies and a pile of clean sleepers - all the rest is window dressing you quickly find out and just more stuff to wash. Sorta like that LOL.

Aspen is a great substrate, just never buy pine or cedar or any bedding you aren't totally sure is safe. WalMart sells a wonderful bag of fine shred aspen for less than $4.00 (they should give me kickbacks I swear LOL). It is compressed so you'll be surprised at how far it goes for one snake. If you are concerned about accidental ingestion put a pad of newspaper over it on feeding night but remember these are creatures designed to eat whole prey in a messy, dirty wild environment. Their stomach acids easily digest hair, bones and teeth completely so a scrap of aspen isn't going to cause any real issues.

Exploding f/t prey. Buy them from a good source where the prey is frozen well and not busted up or covered in feces is the first thing. Warm them in ziploc baggies floating in hot tap water after allowing some time to start to defrost. Never microwave. You are not likely to see a lot of exploding...that's mostly from overheating or refreezing and reheating. If you see any it will be in the pinky rat stage where the belly skin is still very thin but really it's rare. If you want and have access to a PetCo they usually have very nice frozen rats/mice that you can buy a few feedings at a time. That way you can see how it goes and then decide what's best as far as feeding method.

Remember when you purchase your baby to get all info on feeding. What type of prey (mice or rats)....what method of feeding (live, pre-killed or frozen/thawed)...what size of prey (pinky, fuzzy, etc. *see our Feeder FAQ for info on sizes or check out www.rodentpro.com) The more you know, the better prepared you are to mimic what the baby snake is used to and be more successful for your first feedings. You can always work on changing something later but best to go with how the breeder has been feeding at first. If you don't wish to live feed, avoid buying a live feeding baby for instance. Never buy a baby snake that hasn't shed yet or hasn't successfully fed for the breeder (good breeders shouldn't be offering those for sale but best warned ahead I figure).

Find out now if you don't know, what to look for in a healthy baby BP. Be very picky about which one you want at the show. Better to come home empty handed than take on a sickly baby. We just lost a baby BP we bought at a show recently (a small local show) and looking back we realize we got caught up in her beauty and didn't ask enough of the clear questions from the breeder that we know we should have.

Just to answer some of your questions about dry ice....I've never worked with it myself, so I don't know how long it lasts or how to keep it from disappearing....but I can ease your fears about the gas it gives off. CO2 is just part of the air we breathe. You create CO2 every time you exhale. It's not dangerous in the least. Dry ice is just frozen CO2....and so if you put it in a small container, it floods the container with CO2 and pushes out all the oxygen. It's not the CO2 that kills the rodent, it's the sudden lack of oxygen.


That's my understanding of it. I may be a bit off on the mechanics, but I know for sure the gas thats released is harmless. :)

As you've surely found by now, everyone has their own way of doing things. I got my first snake three weeks ago and wish I hadn't waited so long. For what it's worth, here's my experience.

1. Picking one out. I adopted one that was advertised in the local classified. Before committing, I visited twice, once to check him out for the first time and see how he handled being handled and the second time to see him eat. It was also advantageous to see how he'd been living. The setup wasn't good: The previous owner had moved back in with his snake-hating parents two months earlier and he was being kept in a bare 10-gallon aquarium with another ball in a basement bathroom. No hides, no heaters, no thermometers, no nothing. I'm guessing the temperture was in the 70s. It was clear this was a temporary arrangement, but still. He didn't mind being handled by a stranger--I cuddled with him for about 20 minutes the first time--and he had no problems eating a F/T mouse. Any snake that seemed so healthy and well-mannered in that environment, I figured, must be a good one. I came and got him five days after his last meal. And I didn't worry about anyone else snapping him up. For better or for worse, snakes are hard sells. This guy had five--two balls, a blood, a sand boa and a red tail boa--and I was the first to adopt one three weeks after his ad appeared. I live in a city of about 112,000 people,and the baby balls didn't fly out the door of the local pet store when they were on sale for $30 (they normally sell for $80). So don't think you have to get one RIGHT
NOW before someone else snaps him up. In my experience, that wasn' a problem. I gave the guy $25, but he would've given him up for free (I know, because his dad told me).

2. His cage. At first, I was going to use a 55-gallon aquarium, but opted for a 20-gallon setup. I was also going to scrimp and get a cheap thermostat, but decided on the Herpstat unit because $100 isn't really that much money in the grand scheme of things, and temperatures are vital. I opted for UTH exclusively (we'll see how it goes when winter comes) and have had zero problems with heat or humidity. I'm using a screen top that I figure I'll have to partially cover when the air around here dries out come fall, then go for the occasional mist--works great for the hermit crabs I have, which require 80-plus degrees and 80-percent humidity. For substrate, I bought two Lizard Liners, green like Astroturf (which I rejected because the stuff for sale around here seemed too scratchy), and I couldn't be happier. When he relieves himself (happens about once a week), I just pull the liner out and rotate. The liners are super-easy to clean, I just blast them with the garden hose outside. They're dry in a few hours. He's got a rubber branch to crawl on (and he uses it regularly at night) and identical hides on either side of the tank (I got the ones that look like rocks). A CorningWare dish in the middle for his water, and an Acu-Rite thermometer/hygrometer from Lowes and that's it. Again, everyone has their own way, and I don't think there's any wrong way (so long as size and temp and humidity and other basics are followed), but I really like the tank. At night, he gets active and likes to crawl around. He's in a quiet part of the house, but doesn't mind if I watch, which is big fun. I wouldn't get that pleasure if he was in a plastic tub. So far, the cleaning hasn't been bad at all. Like I say, I swap out the lizard liner about once a week, which takes less than five minutes. I suppose I'll wash out the tank every month or so with a weak bleach solution and plenty of rinsing, but I haven't had him that long (and if anyone can tell me whether that's really necessary--he seems like a real clean animal and there's no dirt I can see on the tank itself--I'd really appreciate it). Cleaning, sterilizing and rinsing the tank (I got it secondhand) took about twenty minutes when I first got it. If it turns out I need to do it every month or so, I'll put him in his feeding tub (I've got a Rubbermaid job with airholes drilled in the top) with a F/T while I tidy up his house.

3. Vibration. Yes, they are VERY sensitive to vibration, so much so that I've ditched the nylon backpack-style straps I used initially to secure his cage top (I use clips now). When I undid the straps, the vibration from the nylon rubbing against the metal top and the plastic buckle drove him nuts.

4. I don't work there or have any stock in the company, but I would recommend Reptile Supply as a place to outfit your snake's home. Their prices are way, way better than at the local pet shop. I stumbled across them on the Internet. I received my order five days after placing it. One of the hides was broken, and they shipped out a replacement the next day. Total cost was $167 for the Herpstat thermometer, a Cobra heat mat, two lizard liners, two hides, a digital thermometer (which I have on the cool side of the cage as a back up--it only cost $5) and a fake branch made of rubber. I already had the aquarium and the top. I know it can be done for much cheaper (in my case, it would've been less than $100 with a cheaper themostat), but this didn't seem like too much to spend considering the low cost of keeping a snake. I get my F/T mice at Pet Smart (Petco, I believe, also has them). The cost something like $1.50 apiece, and he takes one a week. That's less than chicken feed--call it snake feed.

Hope this helps. Sorry for prattling on for so long, but I LOVE my snake--I could go on for hours. He's the ideal pet. Well-mannered, clean, doesn't smell (so long as you get the urate and poop out of the cage pronto--that stuff STINKS), doesn't mind being handled, fun to watch television with (he just slithers around on top of me and the couch) or work at the computer with him wrapped around the neck. Yeah, I probably handle him too much, but he seems happy. So far, so good.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JLC

Just to answer some of your questions about dry ice....I've never worked with it myself, so I don't know how long it lasts or how to keep it from disappearing....but I can ease your fears about the gas it gives off. CO2 is just part of the air we breathe. You create CO2 every time you exhale. It's not dangerous in the least. Dry ice is just frozen CO2....and so if you put it in a small container, it floods the container with CO2 and pushes out all the oxygen. It's not the CO2 that kills the rodent, it's the sudden lack of oxygen.


That's my understanding of it. I may be a bit off on the mechanics, but I know for sure the gas thats released is harmless. :)

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Ooooh..! You're right, I hadn't thought about it like that... You are very correct and that helps me out a lot. I'm just really, really loath to feeding live--not that I have hangups about how nice it is for the mouse, but because 1) I don't wanna get attatched to the little fuzzballs and 2) I'm not sure I can handle the idea of hearing a rat screaming it's death throes. The dry ice sounds easy, safe, and human for the rats, so I think that may just be the way I go--I'm still leery about the f/t exploding horror stories, and all..

Though I do have another question about feeding: In personal experiences, how long do snakes usually stay on one size of feeder? And do most pet stores have(or will sell, more accurately)the really little ones, like pinkies and hoppers? I've also read of people feeding their snakes two mice/rats at once...just how, exactly, do you know little Julius Squeezer is hungry for another? This is something I'm really thinking about because people talk about how their snakes go on hunger strikes--I mean, sure, if he doesn't eat, he doesn't eat...so what do you guys do, thaw out two, feed one, offer another? I guess I'm so used to fish(and my sproggie) that will eat regardless of whether or not their hungry--snakes will stop when they're full, right?

Oh! Jo(I think that's your name!), you posted pics of one of your slitherbaby's inclosures. What size is it? I don't want to get something too big that it's going to overwhelm the little guy, you know?

And another thing! Someone answered my question about applying the UTH directly to the bottom of the steralite/rubbermade/whathaveyou, but what is safe to set the UTH itself on--as I've mentioned before, I've got a rather large metal trunk that I'm thinking of using...but wouldn't putting the UTH there heat up the metal, and thus up the tempature? I'm sorely tempted to slid the enclosure into my desk--it has several nicely sized cubby holes and removable shelves; I could really easily set it up here, because I know it's not going anywhere anytime soon, and there is a plugin nearby for a power strip. The desk, itself, is your typical Wal-Mart special(though it's really big), made of that sortakinda wood stuff...would that be safe and insulated enough to put the UTH on? And if not, what's the verdict on the trunk?

And I think my biggest question is this---how manditory is a thermostat going to be for me? Can I safely and accurately keep a tempature constant inside of an enclosure without one? And if not, if I have to get a thermostat, how exactly do they work? I mean, I know the basics--heat goes too low or too high and the thermostat turns device on or off accordingly--but will I need two, one for cool and one for hot side? Do I plug the UTH into the thermostat? How does that work?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LSama

Though I do have another question about feeding: In personal experiences, how long do snakes usually stay on one size of feeder? And do most pet stores have(or will sell, more accurately)the really little ones, like pinkies and hoppers? I've also read of people feeding their snakes two mice/rats at once...just how, exactly, do you know little Julius Squeezer is hungry for another? This is something I'm really thinking about because people talk about how their snakes go on hunger strikes--I mean, sure, if he doesn't eat, he doesn't eat...so what do you guys do, thaw out two, feed one, offer another? I guess I'm so used to fish(and my sproggie) that will eat regardless of whether or not their hungry--snakes will stop when they're full, right?

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I wuld only feed one at a time. Make sure the prey is no bigger around than the fattest part around on your snake.

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Oh! Jo(I think that's your name!), you posted pics of one of your slitherbaby's inclosures. What size is it? I don't want to get something too big that it's going to overwhelm the little guy, you know?

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I'm not Jo, lol, but I put my two babies (seperate of course) in their own 12 qt. It works for me, but I'm going to have to buy a new one soon.

Quote:

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And another thing! Someone answered my question about applying the UTH directly to the bottom of the steralite/rubbermade/whathaveyou, but what is safe to set the UTH itself on--as I've mentioned before, I've got a rather large metal trunk that I'm thinking of using...but wouldn't putting the UTH there heat up the metal, and thus up the tempature? I'm sorely tempted to slid the enclosure into my desk--it has several nicely sized cubby holes and removable shelves; I could really easily set it up here, because I know it's not going anywhere anytime soon, and there is a plugin nearby for a power strip. The desk, itself, is your typical Wal-Mart special(though it's really big), made of that sortakinda wood stuff...would that be safe and insulated enough to put the UTH on? And if not, what's the verdict on the trunk?

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As long as you have a thermostat or dimmer, you should be ok.

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And I think my biggest question is this---how manditory is a thermostat going to be for me? Can I safely and accurately keep a tempature constant inside of an enclosure without one? And if not, if I have to get a thermostat, how exactly do they work? I mean, I know the basics--heat goes too low or too high and the thermostat turns device on or off accordingly--but will I need two, one for cool and one for hot side? Do I plug the UTH into the thermostat? How does that work?

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If the room temps are keeping the cool side to 80-84, only get one. You are still going to need one because heat pads can go ballistic and burn something down if too hot. A proportional thermostat, (correct me if I'm wrong) when set to a specific temperature, will crank up the heat pad to the specific temp. When it gets too high, the t-stat will crank it down to the specific temp. These are the best out of the two. On/Offs they turn off when it gets too high, turns on when it is low. Lol. Whatever kind of T-stat you get, you need to use the probe and put it in the tub/tank.

I just gotta say...Mikey is SUCH a little cutey!!!! :blowkiss:

The size of that specific tub is 22 x 14 x 6.5. I think it's a 21 qt Sterlite. Unfortunately I am the worst person for pulling off the tag that gives all this information from a tub w/o writing it down first LOL. It's plenty big enough for an 06 hatched BP, you can easily go even smaller. This size will house the snake that lives in it for many months to come.

As far as prey size you can expect that most BP's will start on pink or fuzzy sized rats or hopper or small adult mice pretty quickly. Prey shouldn't exceed the girth of the snake compared to the biggest girth of the rodent (usually it's butt/hips area). Until you are used to what your snake eats as far as sizes, etc. and since you are only feeding the one snake probably just buying f/t from PetCo or something like that would work best. You can expect to pay around a dollar or so per frozen prey item (call around to your local pet stores for pricing and availability of various sizes of mice and rats). If you pay say $1.25 for a fuzzy rat and it eats one per week then all you are looking at for monthly food costs is $5.00 plus your gas to run to the pet store once monthly. Pretty reasonable for any pet. Once you are used to what the snake eats then a bulk order from a rodent supplier might be worth it as you can order in a few sizes to make up a minimum order (you can order under 100 rodents usually but you pay less per item if you buy 100 or more at one time plus you safe on shipping).

As far as the T-stat you don't have to go for the top line Helix. There's lots of options for a nice t-stat plus some flexwatt to heat the tub for various prices. Here's a link. You can even have them pre-wire the flexwatt for no extra cost, so it's basically "plug and play". If you have any questions about what you need heating wise I'd say give them a quick call or email. Rich is a great guy.

http://www.reptilebasics.com/store/home.php?cat=250

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

The size of that specific tub is 22 x 14 x 6.5. I think it's a 21 qt Sterlite. Unfortunately I am the worst person for pulling off the tag that gives all this information from a tub w/o writing it down first LOL. It's plenty big enough for an 06 hatched BP, you can easily go even smaller. This size will house the snake that lives in it for many months to come.

As far as prey size you can expect that most BP's will start on pink or fuzzy sized rats or hopper or small adult mice pretty quickly. Prey shouldn't exceed the girth of the snake compared to the biggest girth of the rodent (usually it's butt/hips area). Until you are used to what your snake eats as far as sizes, etc. and since you are only feeding the one snake probably just buying f/t from PetCo or something like that would work best. You can expect to pay around a dollar or so per frozen prey item (call around to your local pet stores for pricing and availability of various sizes of mice and rats). If you pay say $1.25 for a fuzzy rat and it eats one per week then all you are looking at for monthly food costs is $5.00 plus your gas to run to the pet store once monthly. Pretty reasonable for any pet. Once you are used to what the snake eats then a bulk order from a rodent supplier might be worth it as you can order in a few sizes to make up a minimum order (you can order under 100 rodents usually but you pay less per item if you buy 100 or more at one time plus you safe on shipping).

As far as the T-stat you don't have to go for the top line Helix. There's lots of options for a nice t-stat plus some flexwatt to heat the tub for various prices. Here's a link. You can even have them pre-wire the flexwatt for no extra cost, so it's basically "plug and play". If you have any questions about what you need heating wise I'd say give them a quick call or email. Rich is a great guy.

http://www.reptilebasics.com/store/home.php?cat=250

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Great advice Jo! Rich is a super guy and I wouldn't hesitate to buy from him (as I have in the past and will in the future!)

I've only gotten a chance to skim this - I'm at work, you see - but you guys have been providing the greatest info! Thank you especially, Jo, not only for the very detailed answers, but the peek into how a snakes+kids household works. Mikey IS a cutie -- I hope at some point to be able to post Rhi+snake picks too!

Gonna read more in-depth after work, and probably have more questions. Thanks again, all of you, for putting up with two newbs like us!

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...just how, exactly, do you know little Julius Squeezer is hungry for another?

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Julius Squeezer... OY VEY. You see what I have to live with?!

Okay, again, and with feeling! I'm reading here and there on the forums and some people are saying that there should be 'breathing room' between the bottom of the enclosure and the UTH. Is this true, or is it safe to put the enclosure directly on top of the UTH? The enclosure in question is probably going to be sterilite.

And in that regards, as asked above, is it safe to set the UTH itself on metal? Or wannabe wood? Should I place a towel or something on the metal, then the UTH, then maybe another towel, and then the enclosure itself? I do not want to take the chance of starting a fire OR burning my snake!

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Originally Posted by LSama

Okay, again, and with feeling! I'm reading here and there on the forums and some people are saying that there should be 'breathing room' between the bottom of the enclosure and the UTH. Is this true, or is it safe to put the enclosure directly on top of the UTH? The enclosure in question is probably going to be sterilite.

And in that regards, as asked above, is it safe to set the UTH itself on metal? Or wannabe wood? Should I place a towel or something on the metal, then the UTH, then maybe another towel, and then the enclosure itself? I do not want to take the chance of starting a fire OR burning my snake!

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Once again, everything should be fine if used with a thermostat.

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Originally Posted by LSama

Okay, again, and with feeling! I'm reading here and there on the forums and some people are saying that there should be 'breathing room' between the bottom of the enclosure and the UTH. Is this true, or is it safe to put the enclosure directly on top of the UTH? The enclosure in question is probably going to be sterilite.

And in that regards, as asked above, is it safe to set the UTH itself on metal? Or wannabe wood? Should I place a towel or something on the metal, then the UTH, then maybe another towel, and then the enclosure itself? I do not want to take the chance of starting a fire OR burning my snake!

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The UTH should be attached directly to the bottom of the enclosure. And there should be a little bit of air between the UTH and the surface of whatever piece of furniture it is sitting on. It doesn't have to be much...but if you have the UTH sandwiched completely between the two, then it may cause a hazzard.

I have mine sitting on top of a lateral filing cabinet that has a really nice wood top. I have a cloth over the top of the wood to hopefully prevent any heat damage to the wood itself. I've also got some reflectix under my UTH to reflect the heat back up toward the enclosure, and further insulate the piece of furniture below it.

And it is controlled by a reliable thermostat...so should never get too hot to begin with. :)

I don't think I would put the uth directly on a metal surface. Not for fear of starting a fire, but because metal absorbs heat so readily. You'll be losing heat to the surface below rather than putting it in the enclosure. Like Judy said, put some reflectix down, then the heater, then the enclosure on top of that.

Next thing is, there's been a lot of discussion about fire danger. It would get hot enough to KILL your snake long before it got hot enough to start a fire! You really MUST use either a thermostat or rheostat to control your uth. The best way to handle it is to use a thermostat with the probe directly on the uth, and set to around 92 to 95 degrees fahrenheit. It can be adjusted from there to get the correct temps in the enclosure. This is the way most recommend setting up heat in a rack system, which consists of a wooden or plastic "bookshelf", and Sterlite (or other brand) tubs slid into the shelving. I currently have around 30 snakes housed exactly this way, with Sterlite tubs sitting on plastic or wooden shelves, and "Flexwatt heat tape" taped directly to the shelf, and the thermostat's probe taped directly to the heat tape.

Steve

More questions! Woo! I'm full of these!

In regards to heating: In personal experiences, do you guys usually get a UTH for the cool side, to bump it to 82 or just one to bump the hot side to 92, and let the residual heat 'warm' the cool side? I ask this because, as pointed out, the snake will be in the basement, and as it gets cool down here, I'm worried that one UTH is not going to do the trick.

And, if I DO have to get two, am I going to need a second thermostat to keep the UTH for the 'cool side' to that 82?

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Originally Posted by LSama

More questions! Woo! I'm full of these!

In regards to heating: In personal experiences, do you guys usually get a UTH for the cool side, to bump it to 82 or just one to bump the hot side to 92, and let the residual heat 'warm' the cool side? I ask this because, as pointed out, the snake will be in the basement, and as it gets cool down here, I'm worried that one UTH is not going to do the trick.

And, if I DO have to get two, am I going to need a second thermostat to keep the UTH for the 'cool side' to that 82?

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I only use one heat pad. Usually if the room temps are around 77 here, the temperature in the tank on the cool side will get to 83.

Thanks--I'll get one, and set the enclosure up(a great deal of this will be done tomorrow, in fact!), and if I don't have enough heat, I'll just buy another. Not that big of a deal. But I didn't want to buy two and find out I didn't need both of them.

For an enclosure that's 22 x 14 x 6.5, which of these would be a good size to get?

http://www.zoomed.com/html/under_tank_heaters.php

Because my 'hot' side should only be about 1/3 of the tank, yea?

Maybe you should get flexxwatt if you are using a tub???? I'm going to get it as soon as all my snakes get their fecals done and it's much cheaper and almost everyone here uses it.All you would need is one foot of 11" Flexwatt which should cost only 3.50. If you can't wire it, you can pay for it to be wired. It only costs about 8 bucks more. That one foot though, will last you for a very long time into adulthood. (Your snakes adulthood of course ) :P

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Originally Posted by bpkid

Once again, everything should be fine if used with a thermostat.

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Ummmmmmmmmm, not quite........


Because the UTHs generate heat (in order to heat your tub/tank ...duuuuh)
you need to provide air space underneath. Air space of at least 1/2" is good, but I found out the hard way that my cedar chest STILL got too hot (started to crack the wood from the heat)....so MY suggestion would be, that if you're going to put it on the metal trunk, that you either give it about 1.5" of air space (we have a couple of our tanks this way w/the plastic cane tips glued on as feet), or some sort of fireproof blanket/pad or covering over the lid of the trunk in addition to air space.

They (the UTHs) can get hot enough that if sitting on a combustible surface they could ignite something eventually.....Better to be safe and all that.

If the room is cold, your UTH isn't going to be able to compensate enough to keep the ambient temp of your snake housing warm enough.

Your UTH will boost the temp only about 10-15*. U can't expect it to be efficient to keep 1/2 the tank 95* when the room is only 50 or 60.....There are couple ways available...(when I got my first snake, MY roomie loooooooved the AC and it really buggered my snake, so I came up w/some workarounds.....) to get your temps right

1. Either keep your basement apt. /snake's "room" at least 70-80 (or so) so then the UTH is the "hot side" OR

2. a little more wattage UTH w/dimmer for cool side and then CHE/heatlamp or a 2nd UTH w/the thermostat for the hot side..


Hope this helps with some ideas!

Welcome to the site Ladies! :handshake


RuLyn


:oops: :oops: :oops: OOoooops, Sorry Judy...You all are more nimble of finger......*leaving to sit in the corner*

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Originally Posted by sweety314

Because the UTHs generate heat (in order to heat your tub/tank ...duuuuh)you need to provide air space underneath. Air space of at least 1/2" is good, but I found out the hard way that my cedar chest STILL got too hot (started to crack the wood from the heat)....so MY suggestion would be, that if you're going to put it on the metal trunk, that you either give it about 1.5" of air space (we have a couple of our tanks this way w/the plastic cane tips glued on as feet), or some sort of fireproof blanket/pad or covering over the lid of the trunk in addition to air space.

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The link I posted said that those pads come with rubber feet--do those usually prove to be enough 'air space'?

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If the room is cold, your UTH isn't going to be able to compensate enough to keep the ambient temp of your snake housing warm enough.

Your UTH will boost the temp only about 10-15*. U can't expect it to be efficient to keep 1/2 the tank 95* when the room is only 50 or 60.....There are couple ways available...(when I got my first snake, MY roomie loooooooved the AC and it really buggered my snake, so I came up w/some workarounds.....) to get your temps right

1. Either keep your basement apt. /snake's "room" at least 70-80 (or so) so then the UTH is the "hot side" OR

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I have a feeling that this part is going to have to be a simple case of trial and error. I'm not 100% sure of the temp down here in the basement; I can see that I'll have to be checking it when I get the thermometer today. Sometimes, it feels really cold to me, but being cold-nature(aenemic, in this case), I don't trust my own judgement on this matter. And with winter coming soon, I trust it even less..However, should one not be enough....

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2. a little more wattage UTH w/dimmer for cool side and then CHE/heatlamp or a 2nd UTH w/the thermostat for the hot side..

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Will the second, on just a dimmer, be okay to support the cool side without the thermostat? I guess I'm a little frazzled about the whole thermostat thing--I've been reading so many mixed messages about how and where they should be applied-not to mention they're expensive!

I've sent you an email. (Check your PMs too. )


RuLyn

:D erm...I had to change my EMail address(the one I had from before was the old one. Oops!) and I have NO clue how to find out where the PMs are because I am AWESOME that way..::Searchsearch::

Edit: :D I didn't even have PMs on! Way to go, Lauren. -_-!

Actually you don't have to pay for wiring depending on what supplier you choose.

http://www.reptilebasics.com/store/p...cat=248&page=1

I'd recommend you consider flexwatt as it's used by the mile by some of the top BP breeders so has been proven very safe, very reliable, cost effective, etc. when used with a proper t-stat. Check out their FAQ about it and personally I'd say email them or give Rich a call, describe your tub dimensions, your room ambients being a tad on the cool side, if you have a concern about the table the flexwatt would be in contact with, whatever...and I bet they'll fix you right up with something that's just perfect.

Oh! Another question!

As far as Thermostats go...what, exactly, does 'proportional' mean, in this case? I think Night Drop means exactly what it sounds like--that, set on a timer, at night, the Thermostat is programmed to drop temps--though, please, if I'm wrong, correct me.

Yep night drop is night drop and something you don't need if you aren't cycling for breeding purposes.

Proportional basically keeps adjusting the amount of power getting to the heating "element" so if it starts to reach optimal temps it cuts back the power rather than simply turning the heating source off then back on when it drops below what you want it to be. Best analogy I can make (I'm no electrical whiz...this stuff confuses me too lol) is like switching a light switch on and off versus having a dimmer switch on a light...it's either all or nothing with the switch or with the dimmer you can do slight adjustments to reach the amount of light you want at any given time. The difference being of course that a light dimmer can"t automatically control and adjust to a preset amount of light during the day/night (they probably have those though come to think of it lol).

So what do you do--just plug the UTH(pad or Flexwatt; I'm EMailing Rich now, BTW) into the thermostat, put the thermostat's sensor in the enclosure, set the thermostat to 92-94, and the thermostat does the rest?

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Originally Posted by LSama

So what do you do--just plug the UTH(pad or Flexwatt; I'm EMailing Rich now, BTW) into the thermostat, put the thermostat's sensor in the enclosure, set the thermostat to 92-94, and the thermostat does the rest?

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Hi, I'm a little late (Ok, a lot late) to this thread! I tape the probe of the thermostat to the bottom of the enclosure on the outside, between the tub and the flexwatt.

Then I put the probe of the thermometer on top of the substrate inside the warm side hide to measure the real temperature where the snake will lay.

The thermostat will be a few degrees higher than your desired temp, because it has to heat through the plastic, then whatever your substrate is. You'll just have to play with it until you get the temps where you want them (adjusting the thermostat up or down). It can take a few hours for your temps to stabilize after you first set it up.

Hope that helps! And welcome! We're glad you're here and thrilled with all the prep work and questions you are asking!

Whoo! More questions! Is it common practice among breeders to make records of things like feedings, sheddings, etc? And if so, I'm guessing that when I go to buy my slitherbaby, this is something I should obviously ask to see. If it's common practice, is it something that, if the breeder doesn't have, I should take that as a bit of a bad sign? Because..well, to me, logically, it just seems like something you'd want to keep up with, you know?

Breeders should have feed records. Not all record every shed, urate, defecate, but should have feed records for you.