sharing

why is it wrong to put two (or more ) snakes if they are the same size and type, provided they get along in one enclosure surley they need company of thier own kind sometimes besides breeding?

They may appear to get along if they are "snuggled up together", but really they are just competing for the best hiding spot or one is asserting dominance over the other. Also, one may get stressed out and not eat. If one gets sick, most likely the other will get sick. If one regugitates, unless you see it happen, you don't know who it was and do not know who to treat. If one escapes, the other will likely follow the first one's escape route.

Snakes are solitary creatures, and they'd rather be left alone.

then why when i have my corns out they always stay together even if i get one out and leave the tank open the other one comes out and goes on my lap with the other one ?why

This topic always seems to come up in one way or another. Along with the stated reasons above snakes do not have emotions or social needs like we humans due. Often humans get their own emotions intertwined with the snake and in the end do the snake more harm than good. Like I've said in other posts the emotional relationship with a snake is one way...we love them...they think we're gonna eat them, its that simple. Ball Pythons have in rare instinces shown to be canabalistic, if you think a mouse regurge is gross you should see a snake regurge...yuck!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ptunny

then why when i have my corns out they always stay together even if i get one out and leave the tank open the other one comes out and goes on my lap with the other one ?why

---

I don't own any corns but I would venture to say because you're the warmest thing around.

Snakes don't need or want any company.

How are you going to know who threw up? How are you going to know who has parasites?(Runny poop) Why would you stress them out by putting them together?

Snakes are solitary and do NOT cuddle up, they are both trying to get the same spot.

who amongt us handle thier snakes whatever the variety and if so why ?

Paul, think of it this way. How in the world would you begin to determine if the snakes "get along". One hasn't eaten the other...yet?

I can tell you that we often take our BP's out of their seperate enclosures in pairs...one for me...one for the hubby to handle. We've put them down near each other, watching to see how they interact without our interference. I can tell you without fail they either totally ignore each other, one freezes in what appears to me a fearful/defensive posture, or they simply slither over each other and go about their business. We've never seen indicators that would show that given the chance they really want to interact at all other than to satisfy the need to reproduce.

We normally just handle the snakes seperately and do not allow the above to happen, as human interaction is quite stressful enough without the added stress of another snake in close proximity.

Remember snakes are neither pack nor herd animals. They probably have never evolved a need to be together for either safety or to hunt down prey as a "team".

I rarely handle my snakes, partly because I don't have time too after I'm done taking care of their necessities and partly because I know it stresses them out. When I do handle them its usually to show someone the snake that otherwise might never see one or would usually be afraid of one. Then there are the times when I just want to hold them for a little while b/c lets face it they're beautiful to look at and amazing to hold. But for whatever reasons I handle I know its for my own satisfaction and not the snakes benefit, which is why I try to limit it. Usually I only handle once a week for maybe 5-10 minutes, if a snake is refusing meals i don't handle at all until they are eating regularly again. To each his own these are my own opinions and feelings on handling.

I too once had this argument. I bought a pair of snakes that were housed together since babies, and figured i'd keep it that way. I was involved in about a 20 page argument on why it's ok to keep them housed together.

Well I had to sell them about a year ago. the female went north east and the male went north west. one year later, I found out the female layed a huge clutch of eggs.

What i'm getting at is I made a mistake housing them together. I could have bred them and had new babies, but since i housed them together they didn't do anything.

The best thing to do is give each ball python its own enclosure. If you're thinking "I can't afford another tank"...don't use tanks. Rubbermaids do a better job.

as you say they are beautifull and lovey to hold but surely such as adders all go to the same place every year by the hundreds to hibernate together ( i think maybe wrong ?)

[QUOTE=Spaniard]Like I've said in other posts the emotional relationship with a snake is one way...we love them...they think we're gonna eat them, its that simple.


if i thought someone was going to eat me im sorry i would`nt sit on there knee pushing my head against thier hand I WOULD BITE THEM sorry personal views and all that

Once again Snakes are not social and do not like company, even from their owners. They have no feelings towards people except for being scared.

Keeping them together has more consequences than rewards. You want happy, healthy snakes, not sick, stressed snakes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ptunny

as you say they are beautifull and lovey to hold but surely such as adders all go to the same place every year by the hundreds to hibernate together ( i think maybe wrong ?)

---

Do you understand why this happens? It is not because the snakes 'want to'...it is because the environment forces them to. Some rattlesnakes do this also....very interesting stuff to read up on ;)

Snakes are not people...yet people like to place human emotions, fellings, and actions on snake behaviors ;)....snakes do not cuddle, hug, kiss, love, hate...that is why I love these creatures....it is nice to interact with something without emotion sometimes...you always know where you stand with snakes....

IMHO....A snake only 'thinks' of a few things....danger, food, water, temperature, sex, and sleep. If you think it is 'interested' in anything else...you are probably mistaken.

To the snake you are just a warm spot to 'cuddle' with in a cool room...nothing more ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by daniel1983

To the snake you are just a warm spot to 'cuddle' with in a cool room...nothing more ;)

---

I wouldn't say cuddle, more like hide in and warm up.

:D I know, I'm a smart alec...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bpkid

I wouldn't say cuddle, more like hide in and warm up.

:D I know, I'm a smart alec...

---

I guess you just didn't pick up on what I was 'quoting'....lol....;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by daniel1983

IMHO....A snake only 'thinks' of a few things....danger, food, water, temperature, sex, and sleep. If you think it is 'interested' in anything else...you are probably mistaken.

---

Did you mean "man" instead of snake? ;) :P I guess you'd have to add "beer" and "sports" to that list as well then...hmm...




jk! :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cassandra

Did you mean "man" instead of snake? ;) :P I guess you'd have to add "beer" and "sports" to that list as well then...hmm...

---

...nope...I like to cuddle ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by daniel1983

...nope...I like to cuddle ;)

---

Say it ain't so, man! :O

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jglass38

Say it ain't so, man! :O

---

....its all just part of my game.....thats how I roll :devilish:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by daniel1983

....its all just part of my game.....thats how I roll :devilish:

---

Good stuff!! :partyon:

[QUOTE=ptunny]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Spaniard

Like I've said in other posts the emotional relationship with a snake is one way...we love them...they think we're gonna eat them, its that simple.


if i thought someone was going to eat me im sorry i would`nt sit on there knee pushing my head against thier hand I WOULD BITE THEM sorry personal views and all that

---

The snake initially, like babies, probably thought you were going to eat it. depending on what experience it got with humans before you got it- it is now 'docile' meaning it does not recognize humans as food, persay, nor as a threat- just something to tolerate and warm up against. snakes are not dogs. my sweetie-pie ben, as 'gentle' and 'cuddly' as he is while holding is somewhat of a drama queen to get out. so is cybil they both LOVE to rattle their tails and even hiss. neither bites. jadis just curls up and lets you pick her up and crowley even arches his back like a cat if you run your finger down it! in point- those may seem like whatever human emotion you want, but they are just individual responses to a creature that lifts them from their house and pets and gushes over them. we dont smell like food, no need to eat us. we don't attack so no need to attack back. you're like a warm rock or tree they crawl over.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ptunny

as you say they are beautifull and lovey to hold but surely such as adders all go to the same place every year by the hundreds to hibernate together ( i think maybe wrong ?)

---

Some things no matter how complex and amazing may seem to us humans are just a simple act of instinct to animals. Our problem is that we try to rationalize such simple things like instincts b/c we naturally want a deeper signficance.

Quote:

---

if i thought someone was going to eat me im sorry i would`nt sit on there knee pushing my head against thier hand I WOULD BITE THEM sorry personal views and all that

---

Personal views are welcome here as long as you don't mind when I disagree;)

I explain them rubbing against your hands as them simply trying to find a source security on the open space that is your lap. If you're taking this as a sign of affection then you're implying that the snake "knows" and "recognizes" you.

If you unexpectedly startled a cat or a dog although scared they would pretty much immediately recognize you and know no longer to be afraid. Startle your snake and she'll either ball up until your gone or slither away as fast as she possibly can, no recognition what so ever. Of course if you keep on handling her while she's trying to slither away she will eventually "tolerate" it and calm down so to speak.

To each his own and rightly so, but these are my thoughts on the subject and although i would love for it to be the way you're explaining it to me I haven't heard anything yet in any of these debates that i've had over the subject that has made me feel that way.

[QUOTE=Spaniard]



Personal views are welcome here as long as you don't mind when I disagree;)



i`m under the belief that we all have our own views on things, unless we are brainwashed or convinced otherwiseby whatever means, sometimes even the best of us tend to believe things if we`re told them enough times :) . and as for Personal views and you disagreeing as long as you can handle others who dis agree with you :frustrate

With a girlfriend like mine if i didn't learn to "agree to disagree" Ida shot myself by now lol

know just wot you mean got one myself and three kids i should have shot her when we met i would have been out on parole by now (it`s 12 years now) as you say "you learn to agree to disagree" lol

Anyone who believes in houseing BPs together; how do you rationalize an accidental breeding of a too-young female if her cagemate is male? And how do you justify having two males together when it is knows that they can become combatitive in the breeding season? And how about, let's say one of your snakes develops an RI or other ailment; how do you say it is good to house them together so the other one cannot escape the germs from the other?
There is no good argument for housing BPs thgether, unless it is temporarily doing so for breeding of two appropriately aged snakes.

no one has actually said that they agree or think its right to house bp`s together all i asked was peoples personal views on the subject but it really seems to have opened up a bit of a raw nerv ha-ha . I must admit that my snakes are all housed seperatly but i do handle them quite frequently :rolleyes: but there ya go

i think that if we really look at things objectivly we begin to see that it is not out snakes that have no feelings it`s just our american freinds that have no feelings or emotions

I personally believe that snakes have feelings. I can't believe that anything that is alive and has a functioning brain doesn't have them. What they do not have are human feelings and reactions to stimuli. It always seems we humans think so darn much of ourselves that only our feelings are valid so we superimpose them on other creatures. Bit silly really...humans have human feelings...snakes have snake feelings....both are alien to the other of course just as it was meant to be.

This seems to fit better up here than in Off-topic. :colbert2:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by iceman25

This seems to fit better up here than in Off-topic. :colbert2:

---

i dont understand fits where ? has the topic been moved to another forum?

:confused: :confused: :confused:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ptunny

i dont understand fits where ? has the topic been moved to another forum?

:confused: :confused: :confused:

---

Yeah, it was moved to the General Herp forum.