I know against some peoples wishes my minds made up

Ok, I have come to the conclusion that unless I want to throw away money i'm going to have to get something from the store that sold me some sick animals. Someone had mentioned that I should use the money at the store for some supplies but i have everything I could need for a hatchling or sub adult so I couldn't do that. The only thing I could come up with is to purchase another animal and get him checked out by the vet. I have done my research and I believe im going to go with an asian water monitor. It was a monitor that I have had my eye on for a few weeks or so and now I have MORE than enough room. I have a few 10 gals , 20gal, 72 gal, and a 6 foot cage to start off with. Now the way I understand it is that a healthy water will grow up to 3 feet or more his first year so that will give me plenty of time to build or convert a bedroom for adequite living facilites. Unless something happens from now til tuesday im pretty sure this will be my choice and I hope ya'll will support me through this and help as you have before. Thanks, Trey

People here are only giving you advice on what would be best in their opinions.
Personally, I think you shouldn't get something that will be that big right off, especially not from a place that has shown to sell sick animals too.
But if you are going to do it anyway, then at least you have this place to advise you on how to best care for it.
I was advised to not get a peach-throat as they are not handleable, but others told me with work they could be, so I ended up with one.
I just don't htink that an Asian water monitor is a good choice for someone that hasn't had a lot of experiance with monitors. But its your money, and your choise.
Wolfy

Well thanks. I guess im still bitter about what happened and I expected to get a hard time about it. The only other monitor I might get is a baby black throat but i'll have to talk to them about it.

no offence trey but i have a question. if you dont want to answer that is perfectly ok with me. that said i was wondering how old are you. or if you dont want to answer could you at least tell us weather or not you are still at home with the folks or do you have your own place. because if you are still in school and at home with the folks it might not be the right time. but if you are on your own i say what the hell. if this is what you want go for it just read the care sheet on them at www.proexotics.com.
if you do decide to get one i am behind you all the way and you will have my full support. best of luck let us know what you decide. and if you do get one post a ton of pics.
matt fisher

lol, no problem buddy. Im 25 and I do stay with my grandmother but it's to help her out so she doesn't have to go into a nursing home. We live in a 5 bedroom house and only 2 rooms are taken. As far as me being in school, I am but I only take one class and that's my EMT so im not consumed with school.I hope this answers it. I also wear a 30x30 lol, j/k ;)

ok cool i just want to make sure that you werent some young 15 year old kid. who wasnt mature enaugh to know what they were getting in to. hell you are a year older than me. haha.
i love my water. he is verry hardy and has done quite well. i would also like to commend you for what you do for your gram, that is a great thing to do.
if you are like me. when you get a monitor you want the biggest one out there. waters are huge but also some of the tamest ones you can own. akies are cool but if i wanted something that size i will just stay with my bearded dragons. they are a hell of a lot tamer. you have just had a run of bad luck thus far. hopefully third time is the charm!

matt fisher

here are some pics of mine.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m...21/water42.jpg
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m...21/water22.jpg
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m...21/water32.jpg
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m...21/water12.jpg

Thanks for the commend. My aunt ( her daughter ) just ran out on her and doesn't have anything to do with her. The sad thing is she lives 10 minutes from our house and she hasn't been here to as much say hello in about 8 months but this isn't about that. Yeah, I was told that the waters tame down and really enjoy company from humans. I tell ya I really like the sulfer's but I don't have a few thousand for one right now.

sulfers are cool. but to me they aloways look a little on the sickley side. even though they are not there color just dosnt do it for me. do you have any pics of what exactly you are looking for.
how much are the ones at the store where you are looking.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fish21

ok cool i just want to make sure that you werent some young 15 year old kid. who wasnt mature enaugh to know what they were getting in to.

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hold on now, what was that? im 13 and doing fine, thank you.
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d1...s/100_0141.jpg
he's grown from this:
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d1...s/ackie008.jpg
to this, since may 23:
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d1...s/100_0051.jpg
thats from 7 inches to over a foot.

its not the age that counts when it comes to keeping reptiles, its responsibility and maturity. i hate it when people call teens irresponsible and immature. dont get me wrong, i know some real idiot teens but im certainly not one.

now, onto Trey. im with you if you know what you're getting into. waters are the second largest bodied varanid (komodos being the first) and they take a lot of money, space, and time.

to start him off put him in the 72 gallon. the 20's will be usless and he'll be done with either in a month or two. be sure to cover almost all of the screen, leaving very little to hold in heat and humidity.

after he's outgrown the 72 move him into the 6 and be building the home-made enclosure this whole time. keep in mind for cage it needs to be twice as long as the animals length and as wide as the animals length. it needs to have a large pool, atleast big enough for him to submerge himself into. you can even use waterland tubs for this once you've finished the permanent enclosure.

if you have any specific questions just ask.

no one said you were. dont take things so personally. try not to be so combative( like the threads i read on ks) i was just talking to trey and trying to help him along with his process.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mr~python

to start him off put him in the 72 gallon. the 20's will be usless and he'll be done with either in a month or two..

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robyn of pro exotics. one of the only experts in the country who has experience with waters. he has been published in numerious magazines for his care guide lines on takeing care of waters. this is off a ad he did for reptile magazine.

At Pro Exotics, we always suggest new customers start with a smaller cage for babies. Smaller cages are easier to control temperature wise. It is easier to monitor food intake and observe and react to your new animal’s progress. We like to start our baby Waters in a 10 or 20 gallon long glass tank.



Water monitors do not need a large pool of water to swim in, so that does not need to dominate your cage space. What you do need is a good moist substrate, some good hiding spots, a water bowl, and an appropriate temperature gradient that covers both ambient and basking temperatures.
here is a link to the entire artical
http://www.proexotics.com/water_monitor_article.html





by putting him in a 72 he will be verry stressed out and have a hard time finding food. and find it verry hard to thermoregulate. please know the breed spacific care needs before you post we dont want Trey to have another casuality on his hands.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fish21

no one said you were. dont take things so personally. try not to be so combative( like the threads i read on ks) i was just talking to trey and trying to help him along with his process.

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i apologize, maybe that was a little aggressive. i just dont like the bad reputation teens have when it comes to responsibility.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fish21

by putting him in a 72 he will be verry stressed out and have a hard time finding food. and find it verry hard to thermoregulate. please know the breed spacific care needs before you post we dont want Trey to have another casuality on his hands.

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my monitor can find food, he can thermoregulate fine, and that he's not stressed at all, infact the only time he ever tries to escape is if he's hungry before ive fed him. maybe i should tell him that he's stresed, cant thermoregulate, or find food?? he's one foot (the size of or a litte smaller then a hatchling water monitor) and he's in a 5 foot x 1.5 foot enclosure notice how small he is on the stack compared to the cage?
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d1...s/100_0113.jpg
fish, ive seen this question asked about a lot of monitors and water monitors for that matter and if a cage is set-up properly then it doesnt matter how big it is.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fish21

robyn of pro exotics. one of the only experts in the country who has experience with waters. he has been published in numerious magazines for his care guide lines on takeing care of waters. this is off a ad he did for reptile magazine.

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he is certainly not one of the only experts that has experience with waters. talk to Michael (mrcota). he lives with water monitors, studies them, cares for them, and is very experienced with them. he will tell you (along with many other) that a large cage will not stress the monitor out. infact, he starts all of his hatchling out in 4 x 2 x 2 enclosures.

have you posted the pics of your set up on ks and asked the monitor people there what they thought.

i am done argewing with a 13 year old about this. have fun at school!

trey best of luck. do your own reading get your own opinions.

No. why? i will if you'd like.

ive showed it on another forum (varanus.nl). they said it was great and didnt need to be changed at all (the specific question was if i would need to change the enclosure at all to introduce another red ackie.)

the real proof would be the monitor. my ackie eats like crazy, has grown over four inches in two months, doesnt try to escape, etc. so ofcourse the enclosure is fine. there is nothing wrong with it if he's doing great so why would i want to move him into a 20L??

Great looking setup Marshall! Wait til you see the one I have planned for the new house ;) What type of soil you using in there?

Keep'em Hot and Feed'em Alot! :D

....and a water monitor is NOT a good first monitor....not even a good fifth or sixth monitor. Call Pro-exotics to see what they have to say about that ;)

awesome daniel! what subspecies are you getting?

the dirt is sandy silt from a dry stream bed on our property. holds a burrow great. look around for any dry stream beds in your area.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by daniel1993

Keep'em Hot and Feed'em Alot!

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you got it buddy!

Ok thanks everybody for all the insight. Robyn at Pro Exotics is the one who told me to go with a water monitor

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mr~python

what subspecies are you getting?

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Maybe some ackies.....or something smaller than your ackie if I can find the right person to sell them to me ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by daniel1983

or something smaller than your ackie if I can find the right person to sell them to me ;)

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i see:partyon: :sweeet:

Good luck Trey!! I hope you are prepared and get your next one wormed. Maybe starting to breed rats and large non climbing roaches now and getting stocked up on food would be a good idea. I would love to see pics of what ever you get and We all will support you in your choice.

i hope no one minds me stepping into this thread for a moment and then i'll leave as i know NOTHING at all about these critters or whether or not your choice is "good, bad or ugly"

but i would like to comment on the "are you a teen" comment...

i have a teenage son. he wanted a couple of leopard geckos so we bought him two for his birthday. he wanted a crayfish (as i breed them) so we set up a tank in his room. he wanted a bearded dragon... so we picked him up one from a local breeder...

now... i have rehomed or taken on the responsibility of ALL these critters. his interests have changed and he no longer wants to be bothered caring for them. that's what happens sometimes with kids.

also... teenagers eventually move out. they leave home. moving into an apartment doesn't always work with all their 'pets. when my daughter moved out last fall i ended up with all her pets except one 10 gallon tank which she took with her. she didn't want to have to care for them. so now i have her cat, two firebelly toads and a 29 gallon tank - she took her crayfish and a few danios with her.

so ya... teens often get pets which they really want to commit to... but then things change and they can't.

i think it was a fair question... asking how old he is before making a decision about getting a pet which is going to get very large and by the sounds of it... need a very large enclosure.

i'd like to add... i know adults who get and get rid of pets like crazy too so this isn't just a 'kid' trait.

marshall, you are definitely a very unique and special young man... no one here would ever disagree with that statement i'm sure! :sweeet:

I also hate when people say teens aren't ready for a reptile. Some of us like Marshall are very commited to reptiles.

^^ To Recycling Goddess

That means more fun for you!!! Lol.

well i suppose we can look at it that way... personally i see it as now i have pets which i really didn't want for myself but now i get to care for them... supplying their food and mtce etc.

but, i love critters... since i live in a zoo... so i can't complain!

Yeah, but they would be better off with you then giving them away to someone you don't even know.

Now I'm done with :hijackd: hijacking this thread.

I hope you do good with your new monitor Trey. Get pics when you get him.

one last comment:

my daughter JUST called me and told me she doesn't want her crayfish anymore and wants me to take it home tomorrow night LOL - ah kids... gotta love them (now do i put an ! or a ? at the end of that statement LOL)

LMAO, I guess we spoke too soon.

well, she is being very supportive of my point LOL

First off to Trey - good luck with this - I've never had anything to do with water monitors so can't really comment - apart from they're BIG. Good that you're getting a vet check immediately too.

As for teens and their critters - well I've got a Sav because my 18 year old daughter wanted one then left college and got a job with really long hours so decided she needed to "get rid of it". Well with the mainly crap knowledge many people here in the UK have of monitors (like keep it in a 4x2 with newspaper or sand substrate) there was no way I could let our little boy go God knows where to be subjected to God knows what - so he stayed and he costs me a fortune.

That said - I would say that as far as being a responsible critter keeper is concerned - my 15 year old is by far the more caring and diligent than my 19 year old.

And again - best of luck with your decision, Trey - I hope it all works out for you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by recycling goddess

well, she is being very supportive of my point LOL

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exactly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fish21

have you posted the pics of your set up on ks and asked the monitor people there what they thought.

i am done argewing with a 13 year old about this. have fun at school!

trey best of luck. do your own reading get your own opinions.

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Just a comment here about being judgemental. Fish, it's about perspective, quite honestly to me at my age...you're a kid too. The school comment wasn't needed and Marshall was not arguing only stating that he doesn't enjoy those teen comments and that is after all his right to say and hardly argumentative. Why would you send a member in good standing here to another forum?

Wow, This topic took off! Well I really appriciate everyone's opinion and i'll be sure to post some pics of my lizard. As far as my age i'm 25 to whomever asked and thanks again. Trey

lol, I guess since this topic is about age now, I could throw mine into the mix too.
I'm 15. Many people have Judged me because of my age. It really pisses me off but you have to try not to let it make you mad. I don't see myself dumping off my animals anytime. I would do anything for my animals to prevent me from getting rid of them.

Oh guys - Jake and Marshall - I really hope I haven't upset either of you with my comments about my daughter - I've "known" both of you two for a while now here and on the other monitor forums and know you are both passionate about your critters.

im not mad at all. i know exactly what you're talking about, but fish's ridiculous comment of how he's "not gonna argue with a 13 year old" is what gets me mad. he's not going to debate with me because im 13? what is that? i take that comment as, "im not a big enough man to admit that an intelligent 13 year old has made a educated counterpoint for every point that ive made." then he resorts to if the people on kingsnake think my enclosure is good, which is kinda ridiculous. it doesnt matter what the enclosure looks like, its the monitor and how he reacts to the enclosure.

i think anyone who keeps reptiles will agree with me on this, and that is that if the animal is healthy and stress free then there is nothing wrong with the enclosure its being kept in, and the enclosure is working fine and serving its purpose. to keep a healthy animal. simple as that.

one thing i did not make a counterpoint too was about the water bowl thing. water monitors spend all of there time either in or near the water. they use it to thermoregulate, to hunt, for security, etc. so why would you deprive it of something that comes natural to it? i never said it has to be big enough to swim in, id like to point that out, but i did say it needs to be big enough for the monitor to submerge itself. ive never kept a water, but i think its pretty ridiculous that you would only give it a water bowl to drink out of. its kinda like depriving a tree monitor of climbing branches or foliage, or a burrowing monitor of burrowable dirt, IMO.

the only reason i mentioned http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=1138123,1138123
was because your knowledg of monitor cages was questioned. that is all i was saying.

the only reason i asked how old he was because you at 13 have no idea where you will be in 4-5 years. work/ college/ millitary. so you cant possiably know how you will take care of you 8 ft 150 lbs monitor. that is why i asked.

have a great day.
matt fisher

yes, it was, but i honestly think those kims dont like to be so close. my guess would be that they like that spot so much for a reason. if its not temperature then possibly its that that spot makes them feel more secure or is further away from something they would consider a predator. i know someone who's 3 ackies have 2 spots to bask but they only use one because its further from the glass and it has some fake grass thats covering it. now, i that was in the wild then i would say that was social but its not. it's in an enclosed space with 2 basking spots. one of which they may find more suitable then the other.

the subject of whether monitors are social or not is very highly debated. espescially on kingsnake. the biologists that study them in the wild and have been for years say they are not but Frank Retes says they are. Frank has spent some time studying them in the wild but not near as much as biologists (or "academics" thats what he calls them). i think when it comes to wild monitors Frank isnt reall the person to listen to, i think the biologists are. when it comes to captive monitors though, Frank is the one to listen to. he has bred more monitors then anybody else but that still doesnt mean he knows about them and their wild behaviours. the problem is a lot of people choose sides. i think if we listened to Franks point of views on captives and the biologists point of view on wild monitors is where we'd get the most useful information.

thats my 2 cents

i just took a resent pic of my water. you can see a big difference between his old pics and this. much plumper and gotten about 3inches bigger.
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m...h-21/water.jpg

he's lookin good :sweeet:

thanks. i havnt even tried to handle him yet am relly waiting till he is good and started. i will start handling in aout two months or so.
matt fisher

Nice fish!!! I don't think Fish was trying to piss anyone off

i relly just set out to help trey. i love you all. hahaha. i love all my critters. 51 is the number of little lives under my care. LOL. you ought to see my feed and eletric bill a month. over 4000 crickets a month about 15 mice and 20 rats a week. 500 meal worms. the hole age thing was just to be sure that he knew where he was going to end up. that all.
matt fisher

dont start off handling right away. you need to make sure he's comfortable around you. a good place to start, once you've let him settle in, is just sitting by his enclosure and reading a book, or anything else you can do. ake sure not to pay any attention to him and let him just observe you. once he's comfortable with that you can put your hand in his enclosure every day until your arm gets tired, waiting for him to come up to it and investigate. if he shows aggitation (curls up tail, puffs up throat, hisses, etc.) then take your hand out and try again tomorrow. once he doesn't see you as a threat at all he'll want to climb up your arm and explore. :sweeet:

he is toattaly cool with me. i feed him meat by hand. he loves tuerky.
matt fisher

is today the big day. wooooohoooooooo!!!!!

Yup, I think today is the day. Wish me luck because i'm heading up there right now. Also, sorry I wasn't around alot yesterday I had to help a friend move.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fish21

i relly just set out to help trey. i love you all. hahaha. i love all my critters. 51 is the number of little lives under my care. LOL. you ought to see my feed and eletric bill a month. over 4000 crickets a month about 15 mice and 20 rats a week. 500 meal worms. the hole age thing was just to be sure that he knew where he was going to end up. that all.
matt fisher

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Tell me about it! And that's A LOT of little lives! I thought I was hard done by when I adopted just the one sav ... make snakes seem like a piece of cake.

Not sure about feeding a monitor by hand though, TBH. I feed mine with tongs and he dashed out and tried to eat the tongs today. :O

pics pics pics!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!