I can't believe how much was getting missed

I had always used coconut fiber until I ran out and used newspaper as a substitute till I could get more. I'm still using the newspaper. I realized how unclean the other stuff must have been after seeing how big the transparent liquid mess was on the newspaper everytime my snake urinates. Sometime half the paper in the cage is wet. Blah.

That's EXACTLY the reason that made me switch from aspen/mulch to paper ... with paper, when it's clean, it's clean ... with many other bedding, it's not "clean" unless you dump EVERYTHING out. ROCK ON! :sweeet:

-adam

Always wondered if my using paper substrates was a good idea as compared to other forms. Now I realize why its better. Woot, thanks guyses.

I was a long time aspen hold out. Now we have all the BP's on newspaper and I'm the first to say...why did I wait this long LOL. Like Adam says when it's clean...it's clean! Also because our BP room is carpeted (nothing I can do it's a rental), no more darn aspen floating around and having to drag out the vac or somebody bumps somebody's elbow and a whole pile of aspen gets dumped. The more snakes we get the more I like efficiency and knowing that everybody is nice and clean and the room is clean when I shut the down behind me.

I've also noted with the warmer weather this summer that it seems easier to control the humidity with newspaper than it was with aspen. Is this right or just my imagination?

I remember switching to paper a while ago....felt like a bomb got dropped on me when I saw exactly how much liquid urine was present that I never knew even existed before.

Same here. I switched to Carefresh though, the urine was just as visible. I never had any idea there was liquid, I always thought it was just solid.

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Originally Posted by JenHarrison

Same here. I switched to Carefresh though, the urine was just as visible. I never had any idea there was liquid, I always thought it was just solid.

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From experience, I can tell ya that carefresh isn't as good as plain ole paper (I've tried it all) ... it still hides stuff ... you'd be amazed.

Paper rules!

-adam

What I love too is that I can pop into the BP room and have all the tubs stripped, wiped and new paper down in no time at all. I love that the not so fun part of snake keeping is now so quick and easy and not messy like it once was. More time to admire the snakes, less time to clean up after em! LOL No worries that some gross thing is growing under a bit of aspen I didn't notice in the corner...gotta love it!

I still need to look into the paper you use. Regular newspaper drives me crazy with the ink and oils. What was that website that sells the unused newsprint?

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Originally Posted by JenHarrison

I still need to look into the paper you use. Regular newspaper drives me crazy with the ink and oils. What was that website that sells the unused newsprint?

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What oils?

Newspapers use a vegetable based ink ... totally safe and non-toxic ... you're snakes crawl through their own feces, which is much worse than news print ink ... most people don't realize how nasty ball pythons get in an average week because they are black and brown ... wash off a few albinos after a couple of big doots and you won't mind newspaper ink in the least.

I use unprinted paper because I can get it by the palette and it keeps the morphs ink free ... but when my collection was smaller and I had fewer morphs, the local Sunday paper worked great! :sweeet:

-adam

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Originally Posted by JenHarrison

I still need to look into the paper you use. Regular newspaper drives me crazy with the ink and oils. What was that website that sells the unused newsprint?

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You can go to any printer's (ask at a newspaper office) and they will give you unused newsprint for cheap or free if you're polite :). Usually it's just the ends of the rolls, but they don't need them.

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Originally Posted by mousch

You can go to any printer's (ask at a newspaper office) and they will give you unused newsprint for cheap or free if you're polite :). Usually it's just the ends of the rolls, but they don't need them.

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Yup! ... That works too! :D

-adam

I prefer keeping my snake on my hometown newspaper. Little taste of home in the city, nothing but the best!
I don't know what you guys with aspen do. I mean maybe my snake is just a splasher but HOLY COW does he slosh the water around in this planter bottom bowl! All that water just goes to the bottom of your substrate?

Adam, the newspapers here are extremely oily...when you get done reading just the classifieds (because that's all I read), your fingers are slick and dark grey. I was originally using our daily papers for the snakes, but their bellies started getting covered in ink, and I noticed all of them were laying on top of their hides versus on top of the paper. It wasn't temps, I use a Ranco with a separate digital thermometer to double-check, and the warm end was where I set it - 90. That's why I switched to Carefresh, and they stopped doing that. Well, I also switched due to the fact that my 2 fatass males like to dump their waterbowls or squeeze into them and push the water out, no matter what type I give them. The newspaper wasn't absorbing it and they were sitting in a lake all night until I'd discover it in the morning. The Carefresh would absorb the water.


I'll give the KDH a call and see if they have any roll ends available.

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Originally Posted by JenHarrison

Adam, the newspapers here are extremely oily.

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It's not oil ... That's just ink ... it's harmless ... and your snakes have much more smeared doot and urine on them that you don't see than ink on their bellies from the paper.

I promise you that I know a little bit about what I'm talking about. :sweeet:

-adam

What you're feeling is ink. The ink is vegetable based, so it comes off easy. It's to make it biodegradable. I can promise you that ink is no more dangerous than a grass stain, but the smeared ink does ruin any aesthetic quality you may have been going for.

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Originally Posted by mousch

...the smeared ink does ruin any aesthetic quality you may have been going for.

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Exactly. I hate getting it on me when I read the paper, let alone picking up one of my snakes. Plus the whole water-dumping thing was a pain with newspaper. Carefresh has worked well for me and it gets completely changed every Sunday...but I am still curious about that unprinted stuff. KDH hasn't returned my call yet, so we'll see.

I have a quick question concerning when you guys switched to newspaper and noticing how much more liquid there was then when using other things.
When paper/newspaper gets wet the wet spot expands and covers a large area. Kinda like ever drop a small drop of water on newspaer and it absorbs it and the small drop/wet spot is now about the size of the bottom of a coffee cup?
Not saying that newspaper is not a good clean thing to keep your bp on because it is. Just saying do you think the absorption/expension of the paper just makes it look like a lot of liquid.

I was just wondering.

No, it is a lot of liquid. Carefresh doesn't have that same massive-expansion effect that newspaper does, but yet when my snake urinates I have to use a glove and clean out 2-3 handfuls of Carefresh that were damp with urine. They pee a lot more than people think. :)

Thanks!
I was just wondering, you know, wandering minds :)

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Originally Posted by JenHarrison

They pee a lot more than people think. :)

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Have a snake pee on you a couple of times - you'll know how much liquid urine they evacuate when they go. =P

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Originally Posted by jotay

I have a quick question concerning when you guys switched to newspaper and noticing how much more liquid there was then when using other things.
When paper/newspaper gets wet the wet spot expands and covers a large area. Kinda like ever drop a small drop of water on newspaer and it absorbs it and the small drop/wet spot is now about the size of the bottom of a coffee cup?
Not saying that newspaper is not a good clean thing to keep your bp on because it is. Just saying do you think the absorption/expension of the paper just makes it look like a lot of liquid.

I was just wondering.

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If the ball python expells 300 CC's of Urine, it's still 300 CC's if it's on aspen or it's on paper ... I think the point isn't that paper makes it look like it's more, it's that mulches (like aspen and cypress) hide how much there really is ... which is an important point for anyone that spot cleans.

Basically, the thing with newspaper is that the box/tank/tub is cleaned 100% every single time it get's dirty ... you just can't miss ANYTHING ... with mulches or other "beddings", unless they are being replaced completely and the enclosure cleaned each time it is soiled, there is always going to be "something" left behind ... even if it's a little urine that sneaks down to the bottom of the enclosure and leaves an ammonia residue ... the cage won't be "perfectly" clean every time it's soiled.

There could probably be a debate 300 posts long about clean vs. clean enough and in the end each keeper has got to do what works best for them and their snake(s) ... for me and mine(s), it's paper. ;)

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

There could probably be a debate 300 posts long about clean vs. clean enough and in the end each keeper has got to do what works best for them and their snake(s) ... for me and mine(s), it's paper. ;)

-adam

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Your mines have paper substrate too? What kind? Gold? Land? :O

I started with aspen, that was what my dad used touse when we had out Boa Alice. Last night I bought a newspaper type bedding because it was good for heat aborbsion and borrowing which my snakes like to do from time to time. I think i might just try to regular newspaper though since everyone is saying how nice it is. Though I do clean the tank's once a week and empty everything and wash it out ( and it is a hassle with a 45 gallon tank). But ty for this post it gave me some more info and what seems like an easier and less messy way to clean up.

i LOVE newspaper!!! :grouphug:

I love a regular sized number 2 font.

I love fried chicken!

-adam

and tater salad! (why is Ron White's voice echoing in my head! LOL)

I love pie what about you Wysocki

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

That's EXACTLY the reason that made me switch from aspen/mulch to paper ... with paper, when it's clean, it's clean ... with many other bedding, it's not "clean" unless you dump EVERYTHING out. ROCK ON! :sweeet:

-adam

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Ditto on that!

i love PIZZA !!!

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Originally Posted by rmune0750

i love PIZZA !!!

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Please stop "screaming" in posts. Your use of a larger font size is distracting and to be honest, it is getting annoying. Thanks.

I'm currently using versi-dry soakers - they are awesome! Same principle as paper but they are incredibly absorbent and have a backing that prevents them from sliding around in the tub.
http://ahsafety.com/product.asp?id=361

I'm only using them because I had a few lying around. I'll probably switch to paper when I run out since it's more cost effective.

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Originally Posted by cassandra

Please stop "screaming" in posts. Your use of a larger font size is distracting and to be honest, it is getting annoying. Thanks.

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y does it matter if i scream in my posts...its just exclamation marks...its words ...not like im screaming it in ur ears...and y would large font be distracting, it would get ur attention....u get annoyed at absolutely everything....jeez :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by rmune0750

and y would large font be distracting, it would get ur attention.

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so you're saying that you're trying to get attention? That's cool. I would have never guessed that was the reason behind that larger font that you post all over the site with ... I guess now the astericks make a little more sense ... learn something new every day I guess. ROCK ON Ryan! :partyon:

-adam

*HUH?*

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Originally Posted by rmune0750

y does it matter if i scream in my posts...its just exclamation marks...its words ...not like im screaming it in ur ears...and y would large font be distracting, it would get ur attention....u get annoyed at absolutely everything....jeez :rolleyes:

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Larger fonts sizes don't get my attention, get posts do. Reading text in a larger font is like READING TEXT IN CAPITALS, or in bold text all the time - it feels like you are being screamed at.

I want to help you with understand what is accepted forum, and email for that matter, etiquette and explain why many of us are frustrated when reading your posts. =)

its not at all for attention, its just i have tendencies on the keyboard...i always bold and make things big and capital, and i always put astericks, believe me, its not for attention...

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Originally Posted by rmune0750

its not at all for attention, its just i have tendencies on the keyboard...i always bold and make things big and capital, and i always put astericks, believe me, its not for attention...

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ahhhh ... gotcha ... don't know what I was thinking? :confuzd:

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

ahhhh ... gotcha ... don't know what I was thinking? :confuzd:

-adam

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:rolleyes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rmune0750

its not at all for attention, its just i have tendencies on the keyboard...i always bold and make things big and capital, and i always put astericks, believe me, its not for attention...

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I'll take you at your word. In future, you'll find people on line more receptive to what you have to say if you listen to what they are saying, especially about the style in which you present yourself, and try to make yourself appeal to others. :)

"They call me tatar salad" Heheheh I love Ron White :)

I guess it must be the tone of me type but I was just having a mind wonder concerning does the paper make it appear larger than it is, kinda like the side mirrors on your car " things appear closer" only sub it with larger.

I was just having a " I grew up in the 70's" mind wander

I understand 300cc is 300cc but depending on what you put it in makes it look larger/more or smaller/less
I was totally off topic of the clean /unclean thing, sorry, sometimes my mind just wonders :)
Sorry to stray.

I'm happy I came across this thread, I also use Aspen and was under the illusion that if the bedding looked clean, then it must be. Didn't realize how much waste I am probably not seeing because it is getting absorbed. Thanks to everyone for their input.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rmune0750

y does it matter if i scream in my posts...its just exclamation marks...its words ...not like im screaming it in ur ears...and y would large font be distracting, it would get ur attention....u get annoyed at absolutely everything....jeez :rolleyes:

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Why do you "need" to be heard so much? There is such a thing as netiquette - it's amazing what a well thought out, well written post will receive in responses - you should give it a try some time. ;)

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Your use of a larger font size is distracting and to be honest, it is getting annoying. Thanks.

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Agreed.

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Originally Posted by BD1

I'm happy I came across this thread, I also use Aspen and was under the illusion that if the bedding looked clean, then it must be. Didn't realize how much waste I am probably not seeing because it is getting absorbed. Thanks to everyone for their input.

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Yes the aspen really soaks it up. Until I saw a friends of mine newspaper after his bp ur'ed I was in awe at the amount. Newspaper or paper is the way to go to make sure it is always 100% up.
I have my bp in a AP cage and I have it all prettied up so I use the aspen for appearence sake. It just makes for about a half a cage cleaning every time he soils in the cage and then pretty regular cleanings of the whole cage.
Newspaper would be soo much easier.
Ahhh the price we pay sometimes :)

What's so bad about using cypress or aspen, and cleaning out the cage completely after a BM or urination? It takes me about three minutes to scoop out the mulch, quickly spray things down with a cleaner, wipe and resub.

Oh it's not so bad, it just seems my bp always soils the cage just as I am about to go to bed and am dog tired. I do the same as you. Scoop, spray, wipe, spray and re sub.

Just some nights newspaper just seems easier. But I like the look of my aspen.

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

What's so bad about using cypress or aspen

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I don't think anyone said that using cypress or aspen was "bad" ... just that their personal preference was to use paper. Cypress/aspen doesn't work well for me ... paper works GREAT! ... That's all. ;)

-adam

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

What's so bad about using cypress or aspen, and cleaning out the cage completely after a BM or urination? It takes me about three minutes to scoop out the mulch, quickly spray things down with a cleaner, wipe and resub.

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Nothing at all with the way you are doing it. Most people spot clean and don't replace all the bedding, which can leave some urates behind that are not seen.

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Originally Posted by Wild Bill

Nothing at all with the way you are doing it. Most people spot clean and don't replace all the bedding, which can leave some urates behind that are not seen.

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I found this with a search on 'cypress' ... I've been debating on buying those huge bags via a garden center instead of my expensive pet supply stores.

Just out of curiosity...I like a layer or two of newspaper under the substrate. When I spot clean, I actually end up taking out 1/2 the bedding since I take out anything on top of the wet paper. With a good wipe down and a half substrate replacement, do you think this would be sufficient in keeping the tank sanitary?

I do so love the look of aspen and cypress...but it IS a pain to keep up with.