Gotta Be One In Every Collection

Well here we are, the happy live rat feedin Franchino family...la-dee-da. So I get that little 06 female Muirne for Mike last month from the pet store. Probably fresh off the boat...no problem....heck I got tons of breeding stock to make pinks and fuzzies for her to snarf down live.

Well guess what! Little Miss Pet Store won't eat live! Oh and we don't like rats either! We will only eat if offered a nice warmed up f/t mousie on a set of hemostats. Even if "mommy" runs all the way to the darn pet store to buy us a live rat pink just to get the exact right size and then races home to make sure said rat pink doesn't croak...nope no way....she wants a darn mouse on a stick! Geesh!

How did I end up with a f/t mouse eating BP! Arrrgh LOL Hopefully when my next two rat litters are born (within the next few days) Miss Muirne might reconsider. If not I guess I'm buying a bag o mice for the freezer.

Move over frozen pizza!! LOL! They gotta keep ya on your toes. ;)

Bright side is she's eating. :sunny: Go Miss Muirne!!

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Well here we are, the happy live rat feedin Franchino family...la-dee-da. So I get that little 06 female Muirne for Mike last month from the pet store. Probably fresh off the boat...no problem....heck I got tons of breeding stock to make pinks and fuzzies for her to snarf down live.

Well guess what! Little Miss Pet Store won't eat live! Oh and we don't like rats either! We will only eat if offered a nice warmed up f/t mousie on a set of hemostats. Even if "mommy" runs all the way to the darn pet store to buy us a live rat pink just to get the exact right size and then races home to make sure said rat pink doesn't croak...nope no way....she wants a darn mouse on a stick! Geesh!

How did I end up with a f/t mouse eating BP! Arrrgh LOL Hopefully when my next two rat litters are born (within the next few days) Miss Muirne might reconsider. If not I guess I'm buying a bag o mice for the freezer.

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Ya gotta love them ball pythons lol.Now if you were not going to the pet store what else would you be doing? lol Now be a nice mommy lol :D

LOL oh I'm not complaining I just think it's hilarious that she's this stubborn about it. Does this mean she must have been captive born actually? They said she was but I didn't believe a word of that pet store sales pitch. I just assumed she'd eat live but no way, no how will she touch live but show her an f/t mouse and she hits faster than lightning and snatches it off the hemostats.

Oh well I have to buy f/t mice for Miss Emi the Milksnake so if Muirne insists I can just buy different sizes. :)

LOL!!! Tell me about, out of all my snakes I have one female that is a pain in the butt!! She will only take live mice and will only eat one per week. Take in mind that this is a 900 gram girl!!! So needless to say I don't think she will ever be a breeder. She will never have enough body weight to make it through a clutch. Oh well!! :confused:

Well who knows with Muirne. She takes her two f/t big mouse fuzzies off the hemostats like she's been doing it her own life so I'm not complaining. We'll see if she'll eventually eat like the rest of the BP's if not, oh well...as long as she eats. Sorry about that female of yours though Bill, that must be a bit frustrating.

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Originally Posted by Wild Bill

LOL!!! Tell me about, out of all my snakes I have one female that is a pain in the butt!! She will only take live mice and will only eat one per week. Take in mind that this is a 900 gram girl!!! So needless to say I don't think she will ever be a breeder. She will never have enough body weight to make it through a clutch. Oh well!! :confused:

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Bill i have a 05 female het albino that is soooo picky on the size of her rats.She makes me relize why some refuse to deal with hets.Abuddy of mine said its because she is a FEMALE and i want her to get up to size to breed lol.

Oh well, she is a little sweetheart. So what can you do?? Just feed her what she will take and hope it changes. Maybe she will be ready next year and will start eating more, who knows. :)

Just be gratefull they eat! ...LOL

as said it's eating don't jynx it.

(PS...I'm Bat-thumb!!!)

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Well guess what! Little Miss Pet Store won't eat live! Oh and we don't like rats either! We will only eat if offered a nice warmed up f/t mousie on a set of hemostats. Even if "mommy" runs all the way to the darn pet store to buy us a live rat pink just to get the exact right size and then races home to make sure said rat pink doesn't croak...nope no way....she wants a darn mouse on a stick! Geesh!

How did I end up with a f/t mouse eating BP! Arrrgh LOL Hopefully when my next two rat litters are born (within the next few days) Miss Muirne might reconsider. If not I guess I'm buying a bag o mice for the freezer.

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HAHAHAHA! I'm rolling now! That is just too funny! I can see you just scratching your head trying to figure out what to try next and the look of shock on your face when she goes "now THIS, THIS is what I want!!!!"

Hi there I am not trying to cause an argument more a debate if thats ok? I am from the UK and we only use live as a last resort, why is it a US "thing" for a better word to feed live?? Would it not be easier cheaper , less smelly to monthly or whatever buy enough food to last the month. I have 2 WC royals that came in as a u take em or they are put to sleep, I tried on defrost for 2 months no joy then fed em a live mouse each which they took, so they were obviously happy with their environment, i tried dead again the week after and both took dead, and have done every week since?

I am always open to peoples opinions so why do u prefer live to d/f?

Thanks a lot

Peter

Peter, I think one reason why Jo likes feeding live rats is because she breeds rats for feeders, so feedling live ratties is the easiest for her. Because she's got her rat colony going full steam, buying frozen mice would actually probably be more expensive...

But as with keeping here at BP.net, live, pk or f/t is the owners choice, as long as we are responsible enough to ensure that live feeding is done properly, that pk are pk'ed humanely and that f/t are clean and properly defrosted. =)

I can appreciate that, its just amazing how the mind sets are different between us in the UK and u lot over there in the US. My personal opinion is if I can help it I woul dnever use Live, there are plenty of people over here who breed their own and use a humane killing method and feed the prey item dead. Why is that not preferable?

I also liek to play devils advocate too as I am sure u will find out soon lol

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Originally Posted by goldenburm

I can appreciate that, its just amazing how the mind sets are different between us in the UK and u lot over there in the US. My personal opinion is if I can help it I woul dnever use Live, there are plenty of people over here who breed their own and use a humane killing method and feed the prey item dead. Why is that not preferable?

I also liek to play devils advocate too as I am sure u will find out soon lol

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I agree with ya mate, although our baby balls all start on live rat pinks or hopper mice if I have to do mice, if they won't eat rats. I also breed thousands of rats every year to feed our animals.

I dry ice them and freeze em. If I can get our animals to take FT instead of live then I will. Not always possible though!

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Originally Posted by goldenburm

I can appreciate that, its just amazing how the mind sets are different between us in the UK and u lot over there in the US. My personal opinion is if I can help it I woul dnever use Live, there are plenty of people over here who breed their own and use a humane killing method and feed the prey item dead. Why is that not preferable?

I also liek to play devils advocate too as I am sure u will find out soon lol

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In an ideal world this would be great. But with ball pythons you have to feed what they will eat. It is just a fact of life that some ball pythons will not take frozen thawed or prekilled food items. For those of us that breed, it is just not worth it to try to switch them. I have actually switched to feeding almost all my bps live. I have found a better feeding response and quick weight gain from those snakes. I do however have 2 that prefer prekilled, those will remain on them because they do really well on them.

It really comes down to what the snake wants. ;)

Ok, but what about those who have to feed 1000 rodents? What a major pain to thaw, individually check each rodent that it is fully thawed, then warm up a bit. With prekilled there is an added expense of humanely gassing the animal. Not all spouses are cool with frozen raticles in the freezer, and an extra freezer will offset the low cost of f/t quite a bit.

Now don't get me wrong I don't have a problem with any of these feeding methods. I believe it's up to individual owneres to look at the pros and cons of each and decide what works the best for them and their snakes. I do feed f/t as a rule, but I have one girl that just won't eat it right now unless it's live. Heck I wouldn't even mind feeding all of mine live, but my circumstances don't really warrant it. First off, I have one girl that WON'T eat live, (I'm feeling your pain JO!!) Plus I also have a young daughter who would be very upset if she noticed cutesy little mice ending up as dinner. So for me, I'll stick with feeding both live and f/t.

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Originally Posted by tigerlily

Ok, but what about those who have to feed 1000 rodents? What a major pain to thaw, individually check each rodent that it is fully thawed, then warm up a bit. With prekilled there is an added expense of humanely gassing the animal. Not all spouses are cool with frozen raticles in the freezer, and an extra freezer will offset the low cost of f/t quite a bit.

Now don't get me wrong I don't have a problem with any of these feeding methods. I believe it's up to individual owneres to look at the pros and cons of each and decide what works the best for them and their snakes. I do feed f/t as a rule, but I have one girl that just won't eat it right now unless it's live. Heck I wouldn't even mind feeding all of mine live, but my circumstances don't really warrant it. First off, I have one girl that WON'T eat live, (I'm feeling your pain JO!!) Plus I also have a young daughter who would be very upset if she noticed cutesy little mice ending up as dinner. So for me, I'll stick with feeding both live and f/t.

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People doing a 1000, that usually puts that type of person in "This is my business" not just a hobby type mold. They don't normaly do a 1000 at a time, it's broken down into different feeding days.

Having a freezer stocked with rodents is way less cheaper then the feeding costs that go with having them still being alive... rats eat a lot of food and create a lot of stench. The ones in the freezer don't do either.

Dry ice is cheap, $3 worth of it dry ices several hundred rats for me. Feeding live also has its risks, bites....

Having that one or two.... that only eat live isn't a hassle. I'm just glad they eat! LOL

i can put up a doodle of my mates way of putting his animals to sleep its a very humane way with bicarb and vinegar!

I have 2 friends that both have over 300 animals each and these are fed and cleaned every day and all are fed on defrost and all are in superb condition and breed every year. Barry my mate at the end of hatching season can have 1000 animals, he breeds 75% of his own food, and for his baby snakes he often starts them on a live pinky and then converts. Another friend has bought a second hand blast freezer that gets em down to -25 in 3 seconds or summat quick!

I only have 23 snakes and buying frozen is cheaper for me.

I am just curious whether its financial, mimicking their wild habitat or just the curiosity of watching one kill the other?? I do not class anyone here in the stupid category of the drunken eejits who feed live cos they get a kick from it!!!

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Originally Posted by goldenburm

i can put up a doodle of my mates way of putting his animals to sleep its a very humane way with bicarb and vinegar!

I have 2 friends that both have over 300 animals each and these are fed and cleaned every day and all are fed on defrost and all are in superb condition and breed every year. Barry my mate at the end of hatching season can have 1000 animals, he breeds 75% of his own food, and for his baby snakes he often starts them on a live pinky and then converts. Another friend has bought a second hand blast freezer that gets em down to -25 in 3 seconds or summat quick!

I only have 23 snakes and buying frozen is cheaper for me.

I am just curious whether its financial, mimicking their wild habitat or just the curiosity of watching one kill the other?? I do not class anyone here in the stupid category of the drunken eejits who feed live cos they get a kick from it!!!

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I breed my own because I save a fortune on feeders doing it. I feed live to almost all my snakes, the thrill of watching the "kill" wore off years ago. It comes down to doing what works for you and your snakes. Some snakes do well on F/T and others do not. For me to feed F/T it has additional costs such as CO2, freezer bags/vacuum sealer bags and the extra freezer I would have to run.

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Originally Posted by Wild Bill

I breed my own because I save a fortune on feeders doing it. I feed live to almost all my snakes, the thrill of watching the "kill" wore off years ago. It comes down to doing what works for you and your snakes. Some snakes do well on F/T and others do not. For me to feed F/T it has additional costs such as CO2, freezer bags/vacuum sealer bags and the extra freezer I would have to run.

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That's pretty much why I breed my own, saves you a ton!

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Originally Posted by goldenburm

I can appreciate that, its just amazing how the mind sets are different between us in the UK and u lot over there in the US.

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Actually, Peter, there are plenty of other US-based herp forums that are adamant pro-f/t or pro-live...BP.net is actually one of the only that doesn't have an "accepted, true one way" of doing things; the general consensus is do whatever works for you, as long as you do feed responsibly. =)

It's a blessing that BP.net is open minded.

Lol! But she LUVs Mr. Fuzzington! :wuv:

Also, I love the Batman and Robin thing you two have going icon wise! :giggle:

My Ozzy will only eat live mice, will only eat 3 at each feeding and get this, will only eat females. Now I know you must think I am a nut but I have gotten 3 males for his feed day and he will not touch them, I take them back and get 3 females and he gobbles them up. I have done this experiment twice and each time the same results.
It just baffles me.

i too do not understand why you would be UPSET that they wont take live.

i understand that you breed your own, and the easiest thing to do is to feed a live feeder. But if it eats, it eats.

I am glad BP.net is open minded and all...it is true other sites are PRO F/T while others are PRO LIVE (and force their opinion on you)...but it seems that most of you are pro live but accept the F/T crew.

my bp's are the skinniest balls I ever saw, but they took their first and second meals frozen/thawed NO PROBLEM. They are supposedly CB...and I have no reason to believe that the pet store was LYING, after all...balls do breed readily in captivity.

my boa wont even EAT live, she's too afraid of live rodents. I am super happy my balls eat F/T, I bought a pack of 12 small adult mice for 10 bucks, and I dont have to go to the store for weeks. No smelly rat farm in my house either.

lol about the extra freezer, only if you have a snake FARM. i keep food for 3 in my regular old freezer. just throw em in a brown paper bag...and tell your spouses to grow up! ;)

i never did like watching those rats die...struggling, scratching at my boa, convulsing.
out of sight out of mind :D

obviously i am one very happy camper on the F/T bandwagon!

But to each their own, and like someone already mentioned, we each analyze the pros and cons and make our own decisions and live by them.

As long as the snakes are eating i guess.

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Originally Posted by Slithers

i too do not understand why you would be UPSET that they wont take live.

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I think you're reading a bit too much into Jo's post. I seriously doubt she's upset that the snake wouldn't take live prey....maybe mildly frustrated...but mostly just wanting to share the amusing irony of a CH(?) bp that goes the opposite of all expectations. ;)

Boy Jude did you call that one right LOL. For heaven's sakes, folks did any of you seriously think I was "upset" :rolleyes: A snake that eats in our collection is a snake that eats. If I had to stand on my head and whistle Dixie to see that happen, so be it.

What I found funny and rather interesting is that most hatchling BP's in pet stores right now are likely fresh from Africa and most aren't always easy to start on f/t. That was the point of this thread was my amazement and laughing at the fact that I expected a baby BP that would only take live (and here I am with all these rats) and I got instead an f/t mouse eater. Not frustrated...funny...as in laugh at myself and the expectations of pet store BP's.

Peter as to why I feed live let's see if I can explain this w/o a book length post LOL. We feed live because I enjoy raising rats. I think that I produce a superior feeder that I know everything about so I know what is going into our snakes. I used to raise fowl for my kitchen table for the same reasons. I knew the chicken the kids ate was raised the way I want and providing the best possible result for the table. For me Peter there isn't an emotional issue as to whether live is more humane, safer, etc. I've settled those thoughts in my mind long ago and am content with the decisions Michael and I made to raise our own feeders and to feed live to our snakes.

Having said that let me repeat I'm quite content to feed whatever prey item and by what method that is required to see to a snake's wellbeing. It's always about what the snake will take consistently and with an aggressive feeding response. For most of our BP's that's live rats, for Muirne it's f/t mice. For the sake of consistency of feeding protocols I'd prefer if Muirne switched but again, not a big deal...the only big deal is she eats and thrives in our care.

Aw, I feel bad for ya; I hate dealing with mice. I really dislike the way they smell, etc. If any hatchling I wuold be getting were started on ratlings, that wold be the best selling point for me :)
That being said, I feed live anso and I am glad the stigma against live-feeding is dying. For me it is the fact that none of my snakes will take f/t; I have tried numerous times to leave well thawed and warmed rats in their cages overnite, and no dice any of the times. However, they all have awesome feeding responses with the live, and I am not complaining as everyone is on-feed at the moment :)
I think the real problemo is with people that overfeed. I think it is the cause of much of the food-refusal (barring seasonal refusals, etc.)

As long as they eat, who cares if the rodent is stone cold motherless dead or yippidy do dar bouncing all over the place... LOL ...

I haven't had my morning coffee yet, so I thought I did do real well with dressing that up! :)

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Originally Posted by Sputnik

As long as they eat, who cares if the rodent is stone cold motherless dead or yippidy do dar bouncing all over the place

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You should make that your new siggie quote. It's hilarious!