Off topic rant

Had to go to the Er last month for food poisioning. No big deal. Then I find out the ER charged 3500.00 for the visit and the insurance only covered 1100.00 of it.

NEVER AGAIN! will I go to the doctors.

Ever had anything of the like happen

After a car accident I was in, I got taken to the hospital in an ambulance. I don't remember how much the ER charged for the visit and x-rays, but I do remember being shocked at the cost. The ambulance alone was $850! :O And it's not like they had to treat me for anything...that was just for the ride to the hospital and some air blown up my nose. :rolleyes: Hubby came and picked me up and took me home....and after all that "expensive treatment" I still had glass embedded in my shoulder. :confuzd:


But if I or my kids need a trip to the ER....money is not something that even enters my mind. I'd much rather make sure everyone is going to be OK than worry about a few bucks.

It just amazes me how much medical care costs

health care is free in Canada.....:cens0r:

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Originally Posted by nathanledet

health care is free in Canada.....:cens0r:

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No it isn't, it's socialized. Two different animals entirely.

I know exactly what you feel right now. Just 2 years ago my son was in a terrible accident that he is lucky to have survived, we have insurance, so I thought it would not be all that bad....

total: over 528,000.00

left for ME to pay after insurance: 278,874.58

Wow. How'd you work that out? Bankruptcy? (sp?)

Our health system really is broken in this country. Between the malpractice lawsuits and the fact that the insured have to pay for the uninsured, it's common for the average Joe (or Jeanne) to get stuck with a huge bill. Every year we renegotiate our health insurance plan at work, and every year I have to pay more out of pocket for fewer benefits. Pretty frustrating... :irkd:

I cut my finger really bad about two weeks ago now at about 11PM, went into the ER bleeding profusely...I didn't get into a room until 6AM, and out at 6:30AM. I got only a few stitches, and a rude ER nurse when I asked why people that came 2 hours after me got to go into a room before I did.

Emergency room my @**.

-Jason

http://www.sustainabilityinstitute.o...ges/logosm.gif The Donella Meadows Archive

Voice of a Global Citizen


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The Most Expensive Health Care System in the World

America has the best health care system in the world, said Bob Dole and the other executioners of health care reform. Once upon a time that claim was true. Now what America has is the most expensive health care system in the world, in spite of the fact that it leaves one-third of its citizens un- or under-insured and ranks 17th of the 24 industrialized nations in life expectancy.

The major reason for the high expense and poor performance is that we are moving rapidly toward an unholy combination of government and corporate health care management. That trend is well documented by Robert Sherrill in the January 9/16 issue of The Nation. Sherrill draws together 11 recent books and articles on drug companies, insurers, hospitals, and doctors. He shows a system that views patients as consumers to be manipulated, health workers as costs to be minimized, and taxpayer support as gold to be mined.

Here are just a few of Sherrill's startling statistics:

- The top executives of the the nation's four largest hospital chains earned a combined one-year total of $14 million, while they were firing housekeepers and nurses and working the remaining nurses 80 hours a week, so as to pay only one set of benefits for the equivalent of two workers. These hospitals rent "temp" nurses, when patient loads rise. The temps may be unqualified, but they don't get benefits and can be laid off quickly.

- Four corporations own seven out of ten of the nation's for-profit psychiatric beds. They treat only insured patients. The treatments take, with remarkable regularity, 28 days -- the cut-off for most employee insurance policies. Some of the major investors in these psychiatric hospitals are insurance companies.

- Private hospitals close emergency rooms to keep out uninsured patients. Meanwhile at public emergency rooms like that of the Los Angeles County Hospital, the average wait is three hours, and 40 percent of the patients are uninsured.

- In the 1980s 550 community hospitals failed. Meanwhile the Columbia/HCA Healthcare Corporation grew from 30 to 311 hospitals in just 14 months. Columbia/HCA's goal is to own a fifth of the nation's hospitals by the year 2000.

- There were 7,000 deaths because of poor hospital care in one year in New York State alone. About four percent of all hospital patients are injured in some way by the hospital. The medical staff in one hospital made mistakes in drug dosage one out of every three times.

- Medicare and Medicaid fraud by hospitals, doctors, and drug companies costs taxpayers $100-$130 billion a year.

- Hospitals routinely bill Medicare, insurance companies, and patients $8 per aspirin or $20 per box of tissues. More serious overbilling occurs at for-profit hospitals than at public hospitals. One private hospital in Georgia charges on average $14,582 to treat a stroke victim; a nearby public hospital charges $6,735 for the same service and same length of stay.

- In Florida 40 percent of the doctors own their own testing facilities. Patients of lab-owning doctors are subjected to almost twice as many tests as patients of other doctors, and the charge per test is more than twice as high. Doctors who own MRI imaging equipment order four times more MRI scans than doctors who don't.

- American doctors are six times more likely to perform cardiac bypass operations than doctors in Europe; two to three times more likely to perform hysterectomies, twice as likely to do cesarean sections. American doctors take more X-rays per patient and give higher doses of drugs. This medical aggressiveness does not produce higher survival rates, only higher costs.

- Only one in eight of the patients who experience medical malpractice actually sues; only half of those who sue receive settlements. Malpractice suits account for less than one percent of the soaring cost of U.S. health care.

- The average wholesale price of drugs in the U.S. is 32 percent higher than it is in Canada. Almost 40 percent of medicines are sold to people over the age of 60, and 40-50 percent of those medications are unnecessary or even harmful. Each year more than 650,000 elderly Americans are hospitalized because of reactions to prescribed medications.

- Two drugs are used to counter blood clots in coronary arteries: streptokinase at $200 a dose and t-PA at $2,200 a dose. The larger seller is t-PA, not because it is more effective, but because it is better marketed.

- Of every dollar in health insurance premiums Americans pay, 37 cents goes to insurance company overhead.

- Canada's national health care system covers 25 million people using fewer administrators than Massachusetts Blue Cross, which covers 2.7 million. The average American doctor hires twice as many people to handle paperwork as the average Canadian doctor.

- The answer to soaring costs is supposed to be health maintenance organizations, or HMOs. But premiums in American HMOs are rising twice as fast as costs, patients' choice of doctors and treatments is limited, waiting times are increasing, and services are cut to the bone. HMOs are not "managed competition;" they are anti-competitive monopolies.

Our health care system is wildly profitable for its owners, at enormous cost to patients, workers, and taxpayers. If it is the best health care system in the world, it is so only because the more one knows about it, the more one resolves to take very good care of oneself, in order never to have to go near it.

(Donella H. Meadows is an adjunct professor of environmental studies at Dartmouth College.)

Copyright Sustainability Institute
This article from The Donella Meadows Archive is available for use in research, teaching, and private study. For other uses, please contact Diana Wright, Sustainability Institute, 3 Linden Road, Hartland, VT 05048, (802) 436-1277.



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Originally Posted by elevatethis

Wow. How'd you work that out? Bankruptcy? (sp?)

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Well, the only way to fix that, is to wait for all the bills to finish rolling in, then file bankruptcy.

my wife had some real bad stomach pains, went to the ER, about 5-6 hrs and a few tests later she was released. a week later a bill a little over 6k!!! insurance covered most of it, i'm glad of that. i've been to a few doctor's homes doing work and hmm they live very, very, very nice. it is truly a shame what some companies/businesses can get away with charging the average person...



vaughn

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Originally Posted by jglass38

Only one in eight of the patients who experience medical malpractice actually sues; only half of those who sue receive settlements. Malpractice suits account for less than one percent of the soaring cost of U.S. health care.

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I learn something new every day. :cool: I found a little more info regarding malpractice, although it is written by an Insurance Jockey. Interesting to see how much of the costs are attributed to administration and corporate policy.

Well let's see. Our 5 year old was born in the hospital, delivered by a mid-wife which we paid seperately. I arrived at the hospital at 5:30 a.m., he was delivered without meds, stitches or even the use of oxygen for either of us at 12:30 p.m. (that's just 7 hours). I left the next day at 2:30 p.m. so a total of 33 hours of in-hospital care. My son was nursed and roomed in. Neither of us required any special care nor received any. It was likely the most by the book, easiest, non-medical delivery outside of a home delivery or squatting in the forest. The hospital bill alone (remember the midwife and the pediatrician were paid seperately).....almost four grand! Mikey is of course worth every penny but that's ridiculous for a midwife assisted, totally natural delivery. Oh and the food wasn't bad but I hate to think what those pancakes cost me!

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Originally Posted by jglass38

http://www.sustainabilityinstitute.o...ges/logosm.gif The Donella Meadows Archive

Voice of a Global Citizen

_Canada's national health care system covers 25 million people using fewer administrators than Massachusetts Blue Cross, which covers 2.7 million. The average American doctor hires twice as many people to handle paperwork as the average Canadian doctor.



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I'd like to know the reasons that contribute to all this extra paperwork? Is it that the [monopolized] system is that just that inefficient? Or is it that doctors/hospitals need this perceive that this necessary to avoid ligation? Or is it some combination?

How are these hospitial monopolies being maitained? Were are the lawyers that work as our state and federal attroney generals with all this overbilling?

This is quite an interesting write-up comparing the American and Canadian health care systems both pro's and con's.

http://home.ca.inter.net/~grantsky/medicine.html

Well I would think at a very basic level that Canadian physicians since they are in effect paid by the government are in a single payer/biller, standard rate situation. Not one doctor's office with gawd knows how many different insurance companies to deal with and who will pay what and who won't.

I grew up in Canada and as much as I love living in the States, I miss the medical system back home. It's not perfect, it may even someday disappear and become more like the American system as Canada loses so many good physicians to the States were they make so much more money. It is a system that can be abused easily unfortunately. It is a system though were all Canadian receive medical care and don't have to pray they have that $10.00 or $50.00 co-pay if they are even lucky enough to have decent insurance like it is here.

kind of on this topic, i find it funny, that to run a hospital

(director/administrator) you don't need any medical knowledge or certification or degree.:confused: i know it mainly office work and numbers, but to me some medical knowledge or training would be nice. also it is more up to the insurance companies how long you stay and what treatment you get?:bolt:


vaughn

While I agree that socialized health care works (for the most part) for Canada, I don't think it would be an improvement in America.
For one thing, America has roughly nine times the population of Canada. That's a massive difference.
But my biggest contention with those who wish for socialized health care in America is the fact that the same gov't that is in charge of our public education system would be in charge of our health care. To me, that is a horrific thought.
Add to that the fact that said gov't in currently in the hands of the religious right, and you have a certain recipe for disaster, in my opinion. The recent closing of hundreds of family planning clinics across the nation only solidifies in my mind that we are quickly becoming a nation in crisis due to the religious ideals of fanatics.
So there. I'm sure I've managed to offend 3/4 of the forum tonight :O

no offense taken here, everyone has the right to think and feel what they want. life would be boring if everyone was the same!



vaughn

Eh, just quit your job, move to my wonderful state, and go on welfare; your health needs are taken care of by the taxpayers then; whoopee...!

I have a sick amount deducted from my paycheck every two weeks for insurance; it gobbles up a lot of my earnings; then there's the tax to pay for the... wonderful people who don't want to work and keep squirting out kids year after year; it is honestly a wonder I bring anything home!
I don't wanna get started on this topic; I work in a department that works on payment plans for debtors' defaulted credit cards; people seem to think they can go out and get $10000 in things on their Providian card and then magically they don't have to pay anything for it... ::boils::: I miss working with student loans, where you could just garnish peoples' wages!
I'm sorry, but as a full time worker, I am enraged by those who take advantage of the system. I sincerely feel for those who are truly disabled, or really fell on hard times and need help; but I only hope those predators who play the system are one day brought to justice!

Oh what are these Providian cards you speak of and might I have one please. I need some new stuff too LOL. Sarah you didn't offend or if you did, big deal. Everyone's entitled to an opinion and yours are well said and presented in a reasonable manner....don't worry we don't flame here lol.

Thanks, Vaughn and Jo :)

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Originally Posted by xdeus

Our health system really is broken in this country. Between the malpractice lawsuits and the fact that the insured have to pay for the uninsured, it's common for the average Joe (or Jeanne) to get stuck with a huge bill. Every year we renegotiate our health insurance plan at work, and every year I have to pay more out of pocket for fewer benefits. Pretty frustrating... :irkd:

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Hear, Hear!!!!!!!! *$%*%&%&%&$*$* It's the same with the company here..or better yet, we're FORCED to sign up in Nov. My child is "now" too old for one of the benefits. Did I GET that age limit in my pamphlet???!?? Noooooooooooooo and now that it's past the 30 days of her birthday, they're going to KEEP taking the $$ out of my pay, and I have NO way of getting reimbursed. $600 that I can't afford, with no recourse.

It STINKS! but I have to keep telling myself it's better than nothing at all. (Been there, done that).

I am more upset that the bill is taking half of my money that I was going to use to buy a new Het from Adam. :P

We're lucky, I think, that we have 24 hour (I think anyway) emergency clinic at med center covered under our PPO , so it's just our copay of $15. You might be there several hours before you see a doctor or even a triage nurse, but it's cost effective.

My emergency surgery last summer, well that was ER, hospital, the whole deal. Occurred now 13 months ago and I *just* received another bill from it, "Due Upon Receipt"....riiight...

whenever we have a huge hospital stay... we are thanking our lucky stars we live in canada!