Female Breeding Sizes

I know that you shouldn't breed a female until she's at least 1400 grams, but does anyone have stories of breeding smaller ones, say around 1100-1200 grams or smaller? Do they pop or something? Just curious, never tried nor will I.

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Originally Posted by bait4snake

I know that you shouldn't breed a female until she's at least 1400 grams, but does anyone have stories of breeding smaller ones, say around 1100-1200 grams or smaller? Do they pop or something? Just curious, never tried nor will I.

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It really depends on the girl ... I've had some smaller ones breed and lay good eggs, I've also had smaller girls slug out and then not lay again for 3 years ... The bottom line is that if a female is ready she will lay, if she's not she won't ... sometimes being "ready" to a female might mean 1 clutch every 4 years ... not good if you're looking for consistent and predictable reproduction.

-adam

Adam would you try your female out at 1200 or would you just wait? Also taking into consideration that she is is not three yet.One of my female's is a year old and weigh's 600 gram's I'm thinking she might be 1200 by Feb 07 give or take.She would be 2 year's old Aug 07 by that time she would probably weigh 1700g. Is that awesome growth or what?And I'm being a little conservative multiplying month's to only 65g of growth which she has shown me can be more.

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Originally Posted by emilio

Adam would you try your female out at 1200 or would you just wait?

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I would wait ... I like big clutches. ;)

-adam

I'm in the same predicament, my females have gained about 75-100g a month since moving up to weaned rats. Six of the ten are already close to 800g and I was considering pairing them around 2/07, if they came in above 1300g and depending on their overall appearance/thickness.

I currently have a 400g Pastel male that should be 750-900g by then and would even consider getting a nice 05 Spider male to pair up with 2-3 females of his own.

Or,
I could wait till next season and all my females should be 2000g+.

I'm stuck as well on this, I'm in no hurry to breed BP's, but it would be fun to have eggs next year. Get a head start on some bees and supers! I may just wait though, any suggestions?

Weight is not the only factor ... many times you end up wearing out males on females that just won't go ... 1200, 1300, 1400 grams is "possible" but not likely in the grand scheme of things ... I typically get 90% of everything that I breed (female wise) to go when over 1500 grams and in their 3rd winter or beyond ... for young girls, or girls under 1500 grams I've traditionally been about 10% until this year.

Breeding young/small girls in Febuary will most likely result in them takin 3 - 4 months off of food, not laying eggs, and having less size for the following season ... sure, you might get one to lay, but is the effect on the rest of them worth it for 2 or 3 eggs?

-adam

I don't know , I guess if I had 5 or 6 of them I would try out a couple of them see how it goes.But definitely worth waiting it out.

Guy's one more thing I'm fighting the urge to buy fullsize female's knowing most will be WC what would you guy's do?If I purchase 2 or 3 would it be enough to have them in another room?Also I heard from a good friend that if you take them to the vet and mess with the girlz to much they won't eat or breed for you.Pretty bad predicament.

Figure it this way. You might get a decently sized female but you need to figure in vet costs for treating them for parasites, difficulty in handling them as they aren't used to human contact and full, very strict quarantine procedures. You can do everything right and you might get a breeding size female but you are just as likely to get a non-eater that will drive you nuts. I call it a calculated risk so it just depends on your calculations of what you can or cannot handle.

The WC adult female we took in as a rescue is coming along but it's been a lot of work and a lot of worry and stress. We may do it again if a female WC was particularily good looking or just plain old needed a safe home but it's way less stressful to get a nice well started female from a breeder and wait out the time. Personally I think WC adults are best handled by people with a lot of experience, something Mike and I had to learn the hard way.

We are currently working with another female that is suspected to be a WC. She hasn't eaten in a long time and is thin. We are trying to help another forum member get her going as well as our WC Saoirse has come along. Like I said...it's a lot of worry and work with one of them...I don't know what I'd do with a lot of WC adult females to manage at one time.

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Originally Posted by emilio

Guy's one more thing I'm fighting the urge to buy fullsize female's knowing most will be WC what would you guy's do?If I purchase 2 or 3 would it be enough to have them in another room?Also I heard from a good friend that if you take them to the vet and mess with the girlz to much they won't eat or breed for you.Pretty bad predicament.

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i've read that also (that most WC females will not breed in captivity)

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Originally Posted by daaangconcepts

i've read that also (that most WC females will not breed in captivity)

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I don't believe this is true, if it was true we wouldn't have snakes in our collections today. ;)

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Originally Posted by Wild Bill

I don't believe this is true, if it was true we wouldn't have snakes in our collections today. ;)

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good point!!:gj:

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Originally Posted by daaangconcepts

i've read that also (that most WC females will not breed in captivity)

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I think that the reality is that MANY of the WC females on the "open market" are probably LTC that have not bred well or at all and are being "dumped" on the public by people that would rather replace them with more consistent breeders.

If you know where to get your adult WC's from and you know how to acclimate them, it's not "easy" to get them to breed (compared to a CB animal or a CH that has been raised in captivity), but it's not impossible either.

:sweeet:

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

I think that the reality is that MANY of the WC females on the "open market" are probably LTC that have not bred well or at all and are being "dumped" on the public by people that would rather replace them with more consistent breeders.

If you know where to get your adult WC's from and you know how to acclimate them, it's not "easy" to get them to breed (compared to a CB animal or a CH that has been raised in captivity), but it's not impossible either.

:sweeet:

-adam

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i'm quickly finding out your "the man"

lol

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Originally Posted by daaangconcepts

i'm quickly finding out your "the man"

lol

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Oh jeez...his head barely fits through the door now...

To balance this out, Adam, you suck. :P ;)

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Originally Posted by cassandra

Oh jeez...his head barely fits through the door now...

To balance this out, Adam, you suck. :P ;)

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LOL ... Cass is right ... I'm definitely not "the man" by any stretch ... just a ball python geek with a big mouth that's been around for a while ... I just like to talk about balls and have a good time. ;)

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

LOL ... Cass is right ... I'm definitely not "the man" by any stretch ... just a ball python geek with a big mouth that's been around for a while ... I just like to talk about balls and have a good time. ;)

-adam

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http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_11_18.gif



Sorry, I couldn't resist. The smilies I found ROCK!!!!!

LOL. Well I'm glad your here to help. Sometimes people can be a a$$ to others with less experience!

This is a great forum, alot of people are REALLY here to help! I'm glad I joined. :)

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Originally Posted by Wild Bill

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_11_18.gif

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You'll get no argument here. ;) :P :rofl:

-adam

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Originally Posted by daaangconcepts

LOL. Well I'm glad your here to help. Sometimes people can be a a$$ to others with less experience!

This is a great forum, alot of people are REALLY here to help! I'm glad I joined. :)

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Well, I can't say that I'm immune from being an a$$ at times, but I try. :floating:

This forum is AWESOME!

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Weight is not the only factor ... many times you end up wearing out males on females that just won't go ... 1200, 1300, 1400 grams is "possible" but not likely in the grand scheme of things ... I typically get 90% of everything that I breed (female wise) to go when over 1500 grams and in their 3rd winter or beyond ... for young girls, or girls under 1500 grams I've traditionally been about 10% until this year.
-adam

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Adam,

So do you normally "try" females that are under 1500 grams to see what they will do, or do you pick select ones that you think will be able to produce?

I can see the wisdom in waiting especially if you only have a couple of females, and throwing them off for another year would not be good.

Neil

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Originally Posted by aaajohnson

Adam,

So do you normally "try" females that are under 1500 grams to see what they will do, or do you pick select ones that you think will be able to produce?

I can see the wisdom in waiting especially if you only have a couple of females, and throwing them off for another year would not be good.

Neil

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It depends ... this year for the first time, I did a lot better than 10% for getting younger, smaller girls to go ... I think that I'm getting a better feel for who's going to work and who's not ... In the past it's been more of a roll of the dice ... Some projects you just have to try I think ... I've never produced caramels before, and I had some younger smaller het caramel girls this year that were right on the edge, so I tried them ... and it paid off ... but, I also had a second group of het girls that I saved for this up coming year, so it wasn't too hard of a call to make. If I only had a couple of het caramel girls "on the edge", as much as I would have wanted to try them, I probably would have been conservative and waited.

I'm really more on the conservative side when it comes to the snakes.

-adam

I'm pretty sure I'll have 5-6 of my girls within 1200-1400 by February, but I'll probably wait and see how it goes before I decide whether or not to breed them this season. Like Adam said, it may not be worth it in the full scope of things!

These girls have been great and I don't want to throw them off balance for next season just to get a few eggs next year.

I guess any which way you put it I'm better off raising CH babie's and waiting it out.It make's sense that they'd try to sell off stubborn breeder's.

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Originally Posted by emilio

It make's sense that they'd try to sell off stubborn breeder's.

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Absolutely nothing wrong with that as long a) they sell them as pets at pet prices, making sure prospective buyers know about the animals unsuccessful breeding history and b) they aren't also trying to push snakes that are stubborn feeders or overly aggressive. =)