I am so enraged....

I saw on the news last night, that a pet store in the area has been raided (the owner said it was a disgruntled employee.) Well, turns out the store looked fine on the ground floor where people shopped, but according to the news, upstairs was clogged with reptiles, and other pets, that were in horrible shape (to them, anyways; I never trust the media without researching.) So.. my boyfriend called the SPCA of Erie County, who siezed the animals, and.. they told him that they intend to give some of the reptiles to a local rescue group, and euthanize the rest... I am so boiling mad about this right now that I can hardly type; I will give the link to the spca so you can see what I am talking about... can anything be done? I would LOVE to adopt some of those snakes; I am not just out to get the morphs they had and make a quick buck.. then again, the SPCA said that they need to wait a few weeks or even months before they7 do ANYthing w/ the herps.. my boyfriend asked them if it even counted feeding and they said yes...

Link.. http://www.spcaec.com/site/News2?pag...rticle&id=5797

Jeez...that just makes ya sick doesn't it, all those animals couped up and improperly cared for.

Is there any local herp societies maybe that could join forces with the Buffalo Zoo and SPCA to help rehome some of the animals, even those that need medical care? I would start with groups like that, power in numbers who want to help the authorities with the problem.

When he called the SPCA, they said they were giving many of them to a "local rescue" and euthanizing the illegals (for that state, it means the rattlers and the retic.. I want to cry thinking about this...) He didn't get the name, and the SPCA is closed now; I plan on calling tmrw. morning and finding. Ther eare a few rescues/one herp society I know of.

Gin, any idea who owned this pet store. This guy must have been moving these poor creatures via the internet and it would be interesting to know what name he worked under. How terribly sad for those poor creatures to live in that kind of environment.

I saw the owner on the news; he was claiming that he was innocent and it was a disgruntled former employee who turned him in. I looked over to the TV too late to get his name; I bet that they'll have it on tonight though.
I wonder if there's a connection between these people and Top Shelf Exotics...? Kinda odd that this many pet-related fiascos are going on in the western NY area..?

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

... he was claiming that he was innocent and it was a disgruntled former employee who turned him in.

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Who gives a flying flip who or why someone turned him in? If he got caught keeping animals under those conditions...then he's guilty! Sheesh. Does he even realize how dumb that sounds?

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

I saw the owner on the news; he was claiming that he was innocent and it was a disgruntled former employee who turned him in.

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Yeah, I think I'd be a little disgruntled if I saw those conditions as well.

Sad...

I called the local herp society and left a msg. Hopefully they call back; if they have any info.

Word over on Fauna is that it's some outfit called "The Kick Brothers" or something like that that was renting out the spaces up stairs???

:confuzd:

Gin, local animal control units won't just give animals to "anyone" to foster ... you have to get on their list ... typically they actually pay you to hold the confiscated animals until there is a trial to determine if the owner gets them back or not ... usually, you can't "pick and choose" what you'll foster, you get what you get ... if the courts decide not to award the animals back to the owner, the person or group fostering the animals has the option to buy them.

At least that's how it works around these parts.

You might want to see about getting on the SPCA's "foster list" so that next time you can take in animals when something like this happens.

-adam

I was about to say that rumor has it, that it's the Kick Brothers who run the space behind (or above) the store front.

video says it all...

http://www.wkbw.com/Story.aspx?type=ln&NStoryID=13330


vaughn

Wow!


Methinks they might be toast!

Reading the story was bad enough - seeing the video was far worse!

Unbelievable! :no:

sooooo sad :(

How pathetic. Why is the owner still living?

I just knew i didn't want to open this thread :( - how can people do such things? I wish someone would kick the owner where it hurts!

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Originally Posted by Grim91Z

Why is the owner still living?

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I'll take a stab at that one ... because murder is illegal?

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

I'll take a stab at that one ... because murder is illegal?

-adam

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It is? uh-oh.... :tombstone

Any updates Jen?

I say 300 animals = 1 human in weight let's hang him.

or even better the headline would read pet store owner found dead today strangled and eated by a 30' Reticulaed python named fluffy. http://www.reptilediscovery.com/Fluffy325.jpg

Chill folks. I don't care what's going on, physical threats against people are not acceptable around here.

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Originally Posted by JLC

Chill folks. I don't care what's going on, physical threats against people are not acceptable around here.

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Who made a physical threat? :confused:

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Originally Posted by JLC

Chill folks. I don't care what's going on, physical threats against people are not acceptable around here.

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I agree with Judy whole heartedly! ... While I do realize that the vast majority of people understand that those statements were made in jest, sadly not everyone sees things the same way.

I thank the staff (and Judy specifically) for the reminder and the "no physical threats, even if joking policy" ... in the end, it really helps to make this site the special place it is ... and I love it! :love:

Keep up the good work admin/mod dudes & dudettes!!! :sweeet:

-adam

I've got a lot of family that live in Lockport and I'm pretty sure they've been to that store. I'll ask them if they know anything else about whats going on.

I think what aggravates me the most about this situation is that the owner couldn't seem to take responsibility for his :cens0r: -up. The pet store didn't look too bad, but it seemed like he just got in way over his head with the upstairs reptiles. It might have been out of greed or just mis-management, but the least he could have done was to say "Yep, I screwed up and I'll try my best to make it better". Instead, he goes on to blame a disgruntled employee and claim that everything is copasetic. :mad:

http://www.wgrz.com/news/news_articl...?storyid=39518

Meh...sound on newer video crapped out on me halfway through =P

Fred Kick--- heres a real winner---just what an aspiring collector needs to see...Unbelievable that someone could be so greedy!!! Clearly just trying to make a buck, with no real concern for his "inventory" or it's well being...This really opens your eyes as to what people will do for money.. I bet ol Fred would house human babies in dirty tubs if he could profit from it!! Word of the day "KARMA" Fred Kick==reincarnated as a big juicy rat... mmmmm!!!!! It's dinner time Odin....

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Originally Posted by chefjeff

Fred Kick--- heres a real winner---just what an aspiring collector needs to see...Unbelievable that someone could be so greedy!!! Clearly just trying to make a buck, with no real concern for his "inventory" or it's well being...This really opens your eyes as to what people will do for money.. I bet ol Fred would house human babies in dirty tubs if he could profit from it!! Word of the day "KARMA" Fred Kick==reincarnated as a big juicy rat... mmmmm!!!!! It's dinner time Odin....

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Yeah but, how do you REALLY feel about the whole thing? ;) :P

ROCK ON! :sweeet:

-adam

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Originally Posted by xdeus

Yeah, I think I'd be a little disgruntled if I saw those conditions as well.

Sad...

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I agree, seeing those conditions is one thing, try to imagine the poor animals that had to live in them!

Kick brother's - sounds like a sleazy used car sales type thing.... what a pitty it wasn't!

the worse part is that the people saw nothing wrong with keeping them like that. Like it was business as normal. Thats what sucks

There was another blurb on Channel 4 News this morning. It showed roughly a hundred rubbermaids stacked up to the ceiling with various herps in them; they did a closeup of some of the BPs and they looked cmopletely healthy to me. Then some guy made a comment how "no living being should be forced to live in a plastic box like that." This was pretty lame in my eyes; just shows how ignorant the population is at large, of how herp keeping really is. I mean, I am not supporting the fact that they just had them STACKED; there is no way they could have UTHs in them they way they were positioned. But I had actually talked to a worker there (not sure his name) a few months back when me and Mark went there; he claimed they were feeding their BPs one mouse PER DAY.. no lie. The ones in the news shot looked almost overfat; then they panned over to a large lizard (maybe a monitor?) and made a big stink because he was missing a toe. Now, I am not saying at ALL that I'm defending this store; I do not know even close-to enough on the reality of the situation; and I also know that news reporters always pick out the most graphic and the worst things to film; but who here thinks keeping snakes in r-maids is wrong... I would bank, not a single one of us. I just hate the media on one hand, but on the other; maybe a few of the worse and smarmier pet stores (I could give you a nice list) in the area see this and wise-up and clean-up.
The store was said to be open for business as of today; no charges filed. My guess is, they took the illegals (rattlers, etc.) and let the guy keep anything that was not on death's doorstep. I really seriously wish someone else had seen this news broadcast; I am going to make a sincere effort to record the news blurb tonight; our computer is equipped with a TiVo-like thingie that lets you record TV. If it's on, I will get it and post it.

I agree with the man that said no living creature should be forced to live in a plastic box, now if that plastic box is huge and has the proper bedding and heating i dont see what's wrong, but the breeding racks that are not properly set up with the wrong bedding and no real heating sorce I do not agree with. those plastic containers i agree with only if the snake only has it eggs because they aren't doing much movement anyways.

another thing, rubbermaids you can not make a great habitat for them that you can actually see. I think rubbermaids are for cheap people that do not want to spend the time or money getting an actual cage and making a habitat for them.

rubbermaid containers also make it pretty pointless to have a heat lamp because they will melt under that heat

It's damaging to all of us that keep reptiles because the media will milk this dry. Unfortunately, as you have pointed out.... uneducated statements and pure stupid statements are going to fuel the fire on this story.... the sooner it dies the better!

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Originally Posted by Alecz

another thing, rubbermaids you can not make a great habitat for them that you can actually see. I think rubbermaids are for cheap people that do not want to spend the time or money getting an actual cage and making a habitat for them.

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I woudn't agree with that. Plastic is a great humidity provider and a great way to keep animals healthy.

Mr. McGuire: I want to say one word to you. Just one word.
Benjamin: Yes, sir.
Mr. McGuire: Are you listening?
Benjamin: Yes, I am.
Mr. McGuire: Plastics.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alecz

another thing, rubbermaids you can not make a great habitat for them that you can actually see. I think rubbermaids are for cheap people that do not want to spend the time or money getting an actual cage and making a habitat for them.

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You are really making an impact today...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alecz

another thing, rubbermaids you can not make a great habitat for them that you can actually see. I think rubbermaids are for cheap people that do not want to spend the time or money getting an actual cage and making a habitat for them.

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Alec,

While not the most ascetically pleasing, Rubbermaids can make some of the most herp friendly habitats out there. Talk to anybody who has tried to manage humidity in a screen top enclosure. As long as ample living space is provided (both vertically and horizontally), and all husbandry requirements are met for your specific species there is truly no harm nor foul.

There is the added benefit of making owning a herp more affordable. For those of us with multiple herps in our collection it also makes it more space efficient so no one is housed improperly or must share a habitat that can cause unnecessary stress on the animals.


Please research all the pros and cons of housing and it's requirements before slamming everyone as "cheap."

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Originally Posted by Alecz

I think rubbermaids are for cheap people that do not want to spend the time or money getting an actual cage and making a habitat for them.

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Well, you'd probably have a heart attack at my facility then ...

http://www.8ballpythons.com/uploads/...ing-092605.jpg

http://www.8ballpythons.com/uploads/hypo-breeding1.jpg

http://www.8ballpythons.com/uploads/pied-breeding2.jpg

http://www.8ballpythons.com/uploads/...-breeding1.jpg

http://www.8ballpythons.com/uploads/...-breeding1.jpg

All done in tubs ... well over 250 ball pythons at this point ... they all eat, they all poop, and they all produce amazing babies year after year ... After keeping ball pythons for 25 years I can tell you with 100% certainty that my ball pythons are happy. ;) :sweeet:

And as far as me being cheap?? ... My racks run between $2,500 and $3,500 each ... I'm not slapping together boxes with wood from The Depot and some plexi glass. :tongue2:

-adam

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alecz

another thing, rubbermaids you can not make a great habitat for them that you can actually see. I think rubbermaids are for cheap people that do not want to spend the time or money getting an actual cage and making a habitat for them.

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I use tubs, and I'm not cheap. Thermostats alone are not cheap. They are perfect environments for ball pythons. I believe it was Brad that made a good point - if you want a display snake - a ball python is the WRONG choice.

Be careful making blanket statements. Tubs may not be YOUR preference, but that doesn't make them wrong. If I didn't have to pay for it, and someone asked me to choose between glass or plastic, I'd still choose plastic. I've used glass, I hated it, it's not good for maintaining proper temps.

I'm cheap but I think its related to my religion...Wait, can I say that?

I have been to Adam's facility and I nearly have a heart attack every time! Plastic rocks!!

Adam......I think I'd have a heart attack at your facility anyway!!! Awesome balls you have!!!

cheap plastic tubs, and i'm loving them. snakes are doing great too!:snake: if i want to display my snakes, i just take them out:O


https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...9/DSCN0850.JPG


vaughn

I love the differences between the sexes!!! Men are so to the point and love to rebuke in 1 sentence or less while women like to write a small essay outlining their argument... With the exception of Adam I guess...wait, did I just call Adam a women??? :O Nah, must be the 8 month pregancy hormones!

(JUST KIDDING...I love you ADAM!!!)

BTW - His balls are awesome, I even took one home for myself!

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Originally Posted by wendyhoo9

I love the differences between the sexes!!! Men are so to the point and love to rebuke in 1 sentence or less while women like to write a small essay outlining their argument... With the exception of Adam I guess...wait, did I just call Adam a women??? :O Nah, must be the 8 month pregancy hormones!

(JUST KIDDING...I love you ADAM!!!)

BTW - His balls are awesome, I even took one home for myself!

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Where's my love?

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Originally Posted by wendyhoo9

With the exception of Adam I guess...wait, did I just call Adam a women???

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Everyone knows that I'm half a broad ... It's no d@mn mystery! :P

Love you to mama!!! ... Getting close now! ... We're thinking about you!!! :love:

-adam

LOL.... jglass!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

I wonder if there's a connection between these people and Top Shelf Exotics...? Kinda odd that this many pet-related fiascos are going on in the western NY area..?

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Sounds like Chris Johnson to me. Add that pet store owner to the list of people I would like to find in a dark alley somewhere.