Genetics of normals...

I've always wondered about the genetics of normals and if certain traits can be passed on to offspring...like color or pattern. If 2 normal parents have a lot of blushing or reduced patterning, what are the odds that the offspring will have blushing/reduced patterning as well? Or if 2 normal parents have primarily chocolate or really light green colors, what are the odds that the babies will inherit those colors?

I know stripes are almost always non-genetic...but I'm curious if when I breed Spoon or Misty, if their normal babies will inherit their pretty coloration.

There's an element of selective breeding that has shown certain traits pass down. But Adam's responding as I type so I'm sure he'll deliver something with more meat.

Sometimes blushing shows up in babies, sometimes it doesn't ... sometimes high-gold parents make high gold babies, sometimes they don't ... with normals, it is EXTREMELY variable ... each year I might hit on 1 in 5 with selective breeding attempts ... if I'm lucky ... you just have to roll the dice and take the shot ... some "looks" inherit better with specific "traits" ... for example, a blushing normal female bred to a normal male might make generally unremarkable looking babies ... but breed that same blushing normal female to a pastel and you could get some VERY nice pastel babies.

There is no "rule book" for selective breeding ... make like a sneaker and "just do it".

-adam

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

But Adam's responding as I type so I'm sure he'll deliver something with more meat.

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If you want meat, I'm your guy. ;)

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

If you want meat, I'm your guy. ;)

-adam

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What? I thought you were the Pie Guy...

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Originally Posted by xdeus

What? I thought you were the Pie Guy...

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mmmmmmm .... pie :love:

-adam

Sheppard's pie?

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Sometimes blushing shows up in babies, sometimes it doesn't ... sometimes high-gold parents make high gold babies, sometimes they don't ... with normals, it is EXTREMELY variable ... each year I might hit on 1 in 5 with selective breeding attempts ... if I'm lucky ... you just have to roll the dice and take the shot ... some "looks" inherit better with specific "traits" ... for example, a blushing normal female bred to a normal male might make generally unremarkable looking babies ... but breed that same blushing normal female to a pastel and you could get some VERY nice pastel babies.

There is no "rule book" for selective breeding ... make like a sneaker and "just do it".

-adam

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Gotcha. Its worth a shot, I'll give it a go and see what happens. :)

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

Sheppard's pie?

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Silly youngin ... Cherry pie ... you'll learn. ;)

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

If you want meat, I'm your guy. ;)

-adam

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Except its rancid and its been in the back of the refrigerator for months :P

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Originally Posted by jglass38

Except its rancid and its been in the back of the refrigerator for months :P

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Oh SMACKDOWN!! :zerb:

:popcorn:!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by jglass38

Except its rancid and its been in the back of the refrigerator for months :P

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And yet you couldn't keep your hands off of it ... sicko. :pinkele:

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

And yet you couldn't keep your hands off of it ... sicko. :pinkele:

-adam

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That's how I roll!

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Originally Posted by jglass38

That's how I roll!

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Roll? More like 'Skip'... :groinkick And you had him against the ropes, too.

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Originally Posted by xdeus

Roll? More like 'Skip'... :groinkick And you had him against the ropes, too.

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I like to let him think he has won every once in a while. Otherwise he takes his balls and goes home...

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

make like a sneaker and "just do it".

-adam

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Words to live by from the master :bow:

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Originally Posted by JenHarrison

I've always wondered about the genetics of normals and if certain traits can be passed on to offspring...like color or pattern. If 2 normal parents have a lot of blushing or reduced patterning, what are the odds that the offspring will have blushing/reduced patterning as well? Or if 2 normal parents have primarily chocolate or really light green colors, what are the odds that the babies will inherit those colors?
.

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I think the reason why the genetics of normals are so hard to follow is probably because the genetics of the wild-type ball python pattern are so complex!

Even a single desirable trait of a normal pattern like blushing probably involves multiple genes interacting with each other and their environment during the course of development.

On the other hand, the traits of genetic morphs like spiders and albino involve only one gene and we can easily track their inheritance and plan to obtain them through simple Mendelian genetic crosses rather than make your best guess selective breeding which requires a trained, experienced eye.

Another difference is the traits of genetic morphs can be classified on an either or basis...your either spider or your not.....but a lot of the traits of "normals" full along a wide continuum--i.e. there is a tremendous amount of variation in the degree of blushing

It difficult to follow the inheritance of traits like that.....they are called polygenic traits (many, many genes and environmental factors involved) and require a different kind of genetics than the simple Mendelian Genetics of one, two, or three gene traits....they require analysis using what is called quantitative genetics.

Quantitative genetics basically uses statistical distributions (think bell curves) to make predictions...its a lot more complicated and requires very advanced training in statistics and genetics.

Dude, did they name "Mendelian crosses" after you? Thats so cool! :tongue2:

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Originally Posted by jglass38

Except its rancid and its been in the back of the refrigerator for months :P

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Jamie on the grounds of me being such a nice guy i will not ask how you know this :P .

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Originally Posted by joepythons

Jamie on the grounds of me being such a nice guy i will not ask how you know this :P .

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Jamie was down here in Maryland raiding my "fridge" on Saturday ... When he got here he asked if he could see the pieds ... I told him to help himself ... I explained that he was welcome to just walk up to any rack and just go through the drawers ... I think he got confused. :confuzd:

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Jamie was down here in Maryland raiding my "fridge" on Saturday ... When he got here he asked if he could see the pieds ... I told him to help himself ... I explained that he was welcome to just walk up to any rack and just go through the drawers ... I think he got confused. :confuzd:

-adam

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Was that too R rated for the forums?

EDIT by JLC -- To answer your question: Yes.

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Originally Posted by jglass38

Was that too R rated for the forums?

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We'll just have to wait and see if this thread gets locked, too. *ahem* :halohorn:

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Originally Posted by xdeus

We'll just have to wait and see if this thread gets locked, too. *ahem* :halohorn:

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http://secure-antares5.com/acb/store...ft/bswwjbd.jpg

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Originally Posted by jglass38

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Was that too R rated for the forums?

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I'm disgusted and embarrassed for you ... please stop.

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

I'm disgusted and embarrassed for you ... please stop.

-adam

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I'm hurt...

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

I'm disgusted and embarrassed for you ... please stop.

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Wow, that's harsh. Perhaps it's time you step back and ask yourself What Would Jimmy Do? I don't think he'd hurty little Jamie's feelings.

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Originally Posted by xdeus

What Would Jimmy Do?

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Jimmy would jump on Glass, run up his pant leg, scratch his eyes out and pee on his paisley cardigan :halohorn:

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Originally Posted by cueball

Jimmy would jump on Glass, run up his pant leg, scratch his eyes out and pee on his paisley cardigan :halohorn:

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I thought I had found all the hidden cameras in my bedroom. I guess not!

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Originally Posted by jglass38

I thought I had found all the hidden cameras in my bedroom. I guess not!

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If by "all" you mean 3 out of 8 then you're right on the money :bolt:

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Originally Posted by cueball

If by "all" you mean 3 out of 8 then you're right on the money :bolt:

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You didn't catch my spontaneous Macarena performance the other night, did you?

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Originally Posted by jglass38

You didn't catch my spontaneous Macarena performance the other night, did you?

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Maybe :oops:

Oh yeah Jen...btw...some of my recent hatchling ball pythons exhibited traits from the mother. Pretty subtle but pretty neat!!

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Originally Posted by Mendel's Balls

Another difference is the traits of genetic morphs can be classified on an either or basis...your either spider or your not.....but a lot of the traits of "normals" full along a wide continuum--i.e. there is a tremendous amount of variation in the degree of blushing

It difficult to follow the inheritance of traits like that.....they are called polygenic traits (many, many genes and environmental factors involved) and require a different kind of genetics than the simple Mendelian Genetics of one, two, or three gene traits....they require analysis using what is called quantitative genetics.

Quantitative genetics basically uses statistical distributions (think bell curves) to make predictions...its a lot more complicated and requires very advanced training in statistics and genetics.

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Another thing I forgot to mention is that quantitative genetics works best on things that are easily and objectively measurable. The degree of blushing might be difficult to measure objectively. You'd have to develop some kind of objective test for it. Not an easy task I think.

The length of a ball python through the generations would be much easier to analyze using quantitative genetics.

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Originally Posted by Mendel's Balls

Another thing I forgot to mention is that quantitative genetics works best on things that are easily and objectively measurable. The degree of blushing might be difficult to measure objectively. You have to develop some kind of objective test for it.

The length of a ball python through the generations would be much easier to track using quantitative genetics.

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Apparently I should've paid more attention in school. :taz: