Man

I am getting pretty depressed about poor Trey. It seems like he's gaining weight one minute, and then he urinates and has diarrhea, and he's back to where he started. I would expect a gain by this point! I think it's been over a month that I've been tube feeding him, now.
To me, this shows the classic symptoms of a worm infestation. Does anyone think I'm wrong? I want to take him back to the vet, but the one I went to said no worms, and I'm just starting to doubt that he checked very well.

What do you all think? Should I maybe try a different vet? Should I try deworming him on my own?

Even knowing that he is just a normal old BP, more likely than not a WC one, man...I just can't tell you how attached I've become to him. He is the sweetest little thing...not a bit headshy, loves crawling all over people, only hisses when badly startled. He's just genuinely a sweet little guy, and I really love him a lot, already!

Seeing my CB little girl, how fat and sassy she is, it just breaks my heart to see Trey in this condition. I really want him to survive and florish.

He did perk up a bit tonight. He's starting to shed in earnest now, but he doesn't have the energy to rub up against stuff, so I soaked him for a bit. He *really* wanted out of that water! I loved seeing him be so active again. I just want him to get better.

i'm so sorry it's not getting any better... sending hugs to you both.

i'm not much help otherwise.... just hugs.

He needs to be dewormed regardless of what the vet or vet tech saw on the fecal, as some things like Giardia, coccidia and tapeworms aren't usually caught on a fecal float. Flagyl or Albon works well for protozoan/flagellates and some pyrantel pamoate(Strongid) or fenbendazole(Panacur) works well to get rid of pretty much anything else. I would also get the vet to give him some subcutaneous fluids, with some lactated ringer's solution(for electrolytes) or just place warmed saline.

What type of enclosure is he set up in? I have a small male that weighs about 50g, was dehydrated when I got him, had mites(gone now thanks to Provent-A-Mite) and was just overall a skinny little dude. He's in a 12qt tub with his heat 94 on warm side and 84 on cool side, a small water bowl, two plastic saucers, newspaper for bedding and is due to eat tomorrow. We'll see. He's been settling in for about 2 weeks now, handled once for tub cleaning.

I would try to increase his heat a bit and get him deparasitized. That is probably his main concern right now. Maybe try to get some acidophilus into him too as his gut flora may not be working as it should. Handle him as infrequently as possible and keep him in a dark, quiet place. Maybe do the newspaper balls(lightly balled) in his tub to see if that will destress him enough to want to eat. You could always try a live fuzzy mouse overnight in his tub to see if that sparks an interest. He just may not have enough energy right now to digest that.

I hope this helps and I hope he does well for you. I can tell you have a great affection for this little strong-willed being.

If you aren't feeling confident in your vet Sarah or just want a second opinion then by all means phone around and find another good herp vet to see the snake and do another fecal float. It never hurts especially in a case like this to seek all the professional help you can find. I know we are all pulling for you, your family and little Trey. You've certainly had a time of it with him and I know it must be disheartening to not see much improvement at this point. Think of it this way though dear, he isn't getting worse is he and if not for your hard work he probably wouldn't have made it this far.

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Originally Posted by recycling goddess

i'm so sorry it's not getting any better... sending hugs to you both.

i'm not much help otherwise.... just hugs.

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Believe me, I can use all the empathy I can get, just as much as advice. No one I know has any interest in snakes, so this is about the only place I can come for understanding. I seriously want to meet other people who have snakes!
So thank you so much for letting me vent, and 'getting it' :)

Becky,

He's in a 10 gal aquarium, with newspapers and paper towels as substrate, 80 degree cool side, 92 degree warm side, identical hides on each side. His screen top is mostly covered, to keep humidity levels in. Usually it's at 50%, I have it between 60-70% since he went blue. He also has a little tree to climb on, but hasn't been in it lately.

I have some fenbendazole on hand, should I give him some? I think I will try to find a different vet on Monday...And I saw PAM at my pet store tonight. Should I just go ahead and get it?

I did try leaving him with a fuzzy, both in his enclosure and in a paper sack for a while. I really don't think he has the energy for that at this point. I really think I have tried every trick in the book with this snake, I have been so intent on saving him!

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

If you aren't feeling confident in your vet Sarah or just want a second opinion then by all means phone around and find another good herp vet to see the snake and do another fecal float. It never hurts especially in a case like this to seek all the professional help you can find. I know we are all pulling for you, your family and little Trey. You've certainly had a time of it with him and I know it must be disheartening to not see much improvement at this point. Think of it this way though dear, he isn't getting worse is he and if not for your hard work he probably wouldn't have made it this far.

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Thank you so much, Joanna.
I think I will call around Monday and get a second opinion on him. I can't imagine he can get any worse, so I will do whatever it takes.

Sarah, bear in mind that his diarrhea is probably due to the fact that he is not eating solid meals. I have noticed that most of my ball babies that are on pink rats, also have a runnier stool than other snakes that are eating food with hair. I think that the hair is a big contributer to firmer stools.

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Originally Posted by muddoc

Sarah, bear in mind that his diarrhea is probably due to the fact that he is not eating solid meals. I have noticed that most of my ball babies that are on pink rats, also have a runnier stool than other snakes that are eating food with hair. I think that the hair is a big contributer to firmer stools.

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Oh, hmmm, I hadn't thought about that. I still worry about his lack of weight gain, though. And this last week, he's just gotten more and more lethargic. I'm not sure how much of that has to do with the fact that he's shedding, though.

His weight gain could still be an issue, and thelethargy may or may not be an issue. Most ball pythons are lethargic by nature. As far as the weight gain, it is not usually large gains that are made by hatchling ball pythons. As long as there is a gain, however small it may be, I would say he will be alright in due time. I was mostly talking about the loose stool in my last post.

:hug: I don't really have anything useful to add that hasn't already been said....just hugs and sympathy. The care and compassion you have for your animals is so bright and apparent in every post. I really, really hope this little guy pulls through for you! :hug:

I still would consider moving him to a very small tub 12-15qt that is very simplistic. He may just be stressed in that 10 gallon with the open sides. Not to mention it is much easier to maintain heat and humidity in a tub enclosure. Since he is so tiny, he may feel overexposed in such a large cage, even if it is only 10 gallons.

What concentration is the fenbendazole and how much does Trey weigh? You would need to get the dosage from the vet and calculate the dosage out to determine how much Trey would get. He also needs some Flagyl or Albon from the vet to get rid of any protozoans/flagellates, as the fecal float doesn't find those on a regular basis. Get his weight and let the vet calculate dosages for both medications. You can either tube him or can get a curved tip syringe from the vet and medicate him yourself if you feel you can.

I feel he just needs destressed and dewormed. Try and get him moved to that tub enclosure after you deworm him, fill the tub with newspaper balls, and up the temps to 94/84. I feel that 80 is just too cool, but that's just me. I keep my girls and guy at 94 and 83-84, and they spend equal amounts of time on both sides.

About the Provent-A-Mite, does he have mites? I don't know if I would expose him to that since he is in such a weakened state.

I would just get him moved to a small tub, deworm him, and let him settle in for a week.

Thanks, Becky, you are so wonderful to help me out like this. I'm going to write all that down and try to find a different vet to take him to on Monday.

I forgot to mention that I had put black foam board all around his tank, but changing him over to a bin won't be a problem for me. I'll hit Target here in a bit to pick one up.

Agh Sarah; that really suckjs. I wish I could offer more advice; how did he end up like that? I really applaud you for taking the time with him and wish you luck.

Thanks, Jen. I can use all the luck I can get with this snake!

He just ended up like this from not eating. I knew *nothing* when I bought him, I had just done the most basic research. But, I figured my daughter would know more, since she had one before at her dad's house. Turns out, no one over there really knew what they were doing, either.
Anyway, I bought him at a pet store, and now I know that this pet store doesn't have healthy snakes. I had no clue, before. I didn't know BP's were fat snakes, so I bought a cute little skinny snake. Out of a tank full of baby snakes, of course. When I think back to how little I knew then...haha.
He has refused to eat since I bought him. The people at the pet store said they had been feeding hoppers to the baby balls, but I can clearly tell now that he has never eaten at all. He does everything he can to get away from the mice I've offered, live or thawed. I took him to the vet, who said he didn't like the color of his belly and gave me some antibiotics to give Trey a shot every day for 2 weeks. He also told me to tube feed him Ensure twice a week. I've upped that to every other day on my own, because the snake is showing no signs of improvement whatsoever.

Does anyone know what the color of his belly would have to do with anything? It hasn't changed after the antibiotics, so I wish I had known enough to ask what the hell that vet was talking about. I kinda felt like I was being rushed out at that point, the office was very busy and we were a walk-in.

Perhaps the vet was concerned about the possibility of belly rot starting from poor husbandry at the pet store? It's really silly of me to guess though, just that's all I can think of at the moment as far as a belly issue. I know you are searching for another herp vet for a second opinion and further help with Trey. I'd suggest when you find one, let them know ahead that you will need an extended visit time as you have a lot of concerns and then write down any questions you have and the answers you get.

Oh yes, I will have a list of questions on hand, believe me! ;)

I just really can't imagine what he was looking for on the belly. I know it wasn't pink like it had been burned, and had no signs of any rot. I would say it's a bit yellow. I don't see anything at all remarkable about it, though.

Sarah, sorry to hear things arent getting better!! The others have provided some great advice and I hope things get better for Trey.

Well I really hope the little guy turns around for you.. I really hate pet stores sometimes.

I would try very hard to get some Hill's Prescription Diet a/d from the vet. It is a very highly concentrated, high calorie soft food that can easily be tube fed. Just add a small amount of water to make the food soupy and that will do the trick. It has animal protein in it and everything Trey needs, while Ensure doesn't. It also has good things in it that will help him build back his good gut flora and his appetite.

Glad you decided to get him into a tub, he will appreciate it very much. Small hides like 4" plastic saucers work excellent for babies, even if they do slide them around(little turtles). I'll take pictures of my babies' tubs and you can have an example of what one looks like.

One thing to think on, like Tim mentioned...if he's on nothing but a liquid diet (the Ensure) then (not discounting worms at all!) that's part of the issue too!


Good luck w/him!! :hug:

Ok, I have added Hill's to my list. I was seriously wondering about that Ensure, I'm glad to have something else to ask about.
And I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to see pics of your baby's enclosures. I'm one who takes learning to heart, so I will definitely pay attention to what you show me! I did pick up a plastic tub for Trey today, and will be getting everything set up for him tomorrow. I have some flexwatt that I ordered earlier this week, so I think I'm good to go!

We aren't too far apart, I really hope that we can meet for lunch or something soon. I would love to pick your brain, and just meet someone who isn't terrified of snakes. Every single one of my friends has expressed their discomfort and fear in my new interest, so I'm feeling a little....lonely? That's a whole new experience for me! I'm usually the most social creature in the group! haha

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Originally Posted by sweety314

One thing to think on, like Tim mentioned...if he's on nothing but a liquid diet (the Ensure) then (not discounting worms at all!) that's part of the issue too!


Good luck w/him!! :hug:

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Thanks :)

I completely see the sense in that, now! haha
I still think he has some kind of internal parasite, with the lack of weight gain, but I'm willing to listen to anything that might help this sweet little snake

Sarah, just another thought on the belly color. Sometimes the big importers will put a large quantity of snakes in a bin while they are setting them up in individual cages, or waiting to look over each snake for special looks. While they are in there, the ones on the bottom, may be laying in urine. As a result of that, it can stain the belly yellow. That stain will stay like that until their next shed. I have one like that at home right now, and have been waiting for her to shed it off, because I want to see her true colors. Just some info regarding why his belly may look the way it does.

Wow, that's so sad to think of :(
Hopefully he'll get his shed off soon and we'll find out!

Okie doke, here are some pictures of my baby tubs. I have 3 but only 2 are pictured.

Inside view:
http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/4...00106lt.th.jpg

View of 2 tubs on a rack(lids are secured using 4 binder clips):
http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/6...00144ln.th.jpg

Hope that helps a bit with visualizing what his new home should look like. I have even been toying with the idea of keeping my 2 corns in tubs because the tanks are just so big and clunky and are very hard to get in and out of the storage rack I have them on(but that may just be me and how my room is set up).

And meeting up sounds great! I love talking with others who understand my obsession for Ball Pythons :) I wuv them! Are you going to the Constrictors Expo in August? It is going to be huge and maybe we can get together and go have lunch, talk Balls, and other whatnot.