Angolan Ball Python?

I just want to know what an Angolan Ball is. Ben Siegel told me my female was born in Angola but was not an Angolan Ball.

Is it a morph or highbrid?

Angolan pythons are another species. I think they are pretty closely related to balls but they get quite a bit bigger I think

there are angolan python x ball python hybrids. http://www.newenglandreptile.com/ball_angolan.html

Wow what a highbrid!! I love it.

Wow! wonder how much they cost

yeah I'm thinking the same thing. I have a printed out price list of lesser known(sp) BPs and the angolan Ball is listed at $2500-$4500 but it is some what old. saying that the pastel Jungles go for around $1000

Last time i saw them on Fauna they were 5k...I think that was for pairs...

yeah I bet they would be that price. something that beautiful would have to be alot of money.

but like I said that price list is OLD lol :P

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Originally Posted by Pork Chops N' Corn Bread

Angolan pythons are another species. I think they are pretty closely related to balls but they get quite a bit bigger I think

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I've heard everything from smaller than balls to signifigantly larger. Although, the majority say between 5' - 7' (5' being the "norm")... so somewhat larger than balls seems reasonable. They also seem to roll into defensive balls (like.. balls) when they feel threatened. Clutch size and temperament seem about on par with balls (although, I've heard they are somewhat less easily stressed than a ball).

The real hook with these guys is how rare they are, and they have a beautiful natural color. Outside of that my information is limited, but perhaps Kevin or Kara can enlighten us more.

I'll tell you this much, eventually I will have one :D

This cross needs a name Ballogan... Angall?

I was told they were called the Angolan Ball I found some awesome photos of one ... I love the eyes. I want a ball that I can actualy see the eyes. are there any normal BPs that have lighter colored eyes? or are they only black?

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Originally Posted by jessie_k_pythons

I was told they were called the Angolan Ball I found some awesome photos of one ... I love the eyes. I want a ball that I can actualy see the eyes. are there any normal BPs that have lighter colored eyes? or are they only black?

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Perhaps an abborant... don't know, a good question for one of the more experienced breeders around here. ahem. Adam. :)

yeah I know. my new female from africa has honey colored eyes but they are starting to turn darker. I think they will go to the tipical black when she grows up.

Buy you a pastel! :) They have pretty light colored eyes :D

pastels,spiders, and of course the bel's all have killer looking eyes...


vaughn

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I just want to know what an Angolan Ball is. Ben Siegel told me my female was born in Angola but was not an Angolan Ball.

Is it a morph or highbrid?

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Please tell me people aren't already buying hybrids without knowing what they are.

Once the first hybrid was made it was inevitable that this would happen eventually but hopefully this is some other confusion and not an actual unknown hybrid already.

The decision is already made for future breeders that at some point they will no longer be sure of having a pure ball python. Not necessarily that big of a thing as what does it really mater if 20 years down the road many cb ball pythons have some small amount of Angolan blood. But it is something to think about when considering making the first hybrid - the choice is then already made for those future breeders and some of them might care.

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

Please tell me people aren't already buying hybrids without knowing what they are.

Once the first hybrid was made it was inevitable that this would happen eventually but hopefully this is some other confusion and not an actual unknown hybrid already.

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Calm your jets Randy ... The OP does not have a hybrid.

-adam

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

Once the first hybrid was made it was inevitable that this would happen eventually but hopefully this is some other confusion and not an actual unknown hybrid already.

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What about hybrids that occur naturally? What if someone were to actually find a natural angolan/Ball hybrid and mix that in the population? Would you feel people would get upset because those genes got mixed into the "pure pool"?

I find the hybrid debate rather amusing. Some people would like nothing more but to make a rainbow of colored Balls, but if you blend it with another species or sub-species, they get upset. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by xdeus

What about hybrids that occur naturally? What if someone were to actually find a natural angolan/Ball hybrid and mix that in the population? Would you feel people would get upset because those genes got mixed into the "pure pool"?

I find the hybrid debate rather amusing. Some people would like nothing more but to make a rainbow of colored Balls, but if you blend it with another species or sub-species, they get upset. :rolleyes:

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from what i have been reading (I frankly like highbrids but that is only my oppion) The Angolan Ball is naturaly accurring in the wild.
sence i have posted this thread I desided to do a little world wide web hunting and found alot of stuff on this "Angolan Ball". So far I have found 3 maps that show the wild ranges of bot the ball python and the Angolan python. when both maps are placed on top of one another. the ranges overlap quit a bit at the top part of the angolan range and the bottom tip of the ball range. some of the sits also show photos of "possable wild highbrids" that look nothing like most wild cought ball pythons. I do not know if any of this is true. so dont take my word for it. I'm just letting you know what I have found thus far.
Hight brids in my book are the way animals evulve ( You wouldnt have white people today if there wasnt some type of highbridizing going on way back when,) humans highbridize every day. black with white, asian with mexican and so on and so forth. sorry ... that is just how I feel about it ... now back to the Angolan Ball...

thats interesting. i had no idea their ranges overlapped much less that there could be wild hybrids. i personally dont believe in evolution so i dont think hybridization has anything to do with creating new species but that's just my beliefs.

ive always wondered what hybrids require as far as husbandry. does anyone know what the "care requirements" are for hyrbrids like blood x balls or angolan x balls? its something ive been wondering about.

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Originally Posted by jessie_k_pythons

humans highbridize every day. black with white, asian with mexican and so on and so forth.

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WOW!

-adam

different races are not different species!



vaughn

Here is a refresher from wikipedia.org.

* Kingdom: Animalia (with eukaryotic cells having cell membrane but lacking cell wall, multicellular, heterotrophic)
* Phylum: Chordata (all animals with a notochord)
* Class: Mammalia (vertebrates with mammary glands that in females secrete milk to nourish young, hair, warm-blooded, bears live young)
* Order: Primates (collar bone, eyes face forward, grasping hands with fingers, two types of teeth: incisors and molars)
* Family: Hominidae (upright posture, large brain, stereoscopic vision, flat face, hands and feet have different specializations)
* Genus: Homo (s-curved spine, "man")
* Species: Homo sapiens (high forehead, well-developed chin, skull bones thin)

As you can see we are all in the same species :)

I think i put it into context that I didnt mean. Sub species is more or less what i ment. each accuring naturaly but in different places of the world. take Finches. there are so many of them in the world but the sub species breed with one another creating a Highbrid. the latest of this is in Arizona between the Lesser Gold Finch and the American Gold finch. both look simular have the same genus but are sub species. they made a larger finch with Olive green wings and the same golden apparance(sp?). like it's American Gold finch parent it has the dark cap on the head but it is not as defined. it eyes are more "cat eyed" unlike it's black eyed parents. This new sub species/highbrid is breeding and making it's self more known around bird feeders all over the US and mexico.

True highbridizing (if i'm wrong please correct me) is when to compleatly different genuses creat a brand new genus? That was what I was told, i want to know if this is true, but I have also heard of what I was told to be Lesser Highbrids. or sub species highbrids.
I could be totaly wrong.

shouldnt have used humans for the highbrid thing and I'm truly sorry. pease foregive me ... and I feel as if I have gotten off track as to what the subject of this thread was about.

If it can be done, it cannot be stopped. Personally, I hope that the hybrids remain at high prices, so that they do not fully contaminate the gene pool of BPs (then again, it is hard to imagine this happening.. but isn't there a problem with this in the boa-breeding world? I admit I am not that educated regarding that..) Personally, if hybrid breeding is done on a small scale, responsibly, I see no harm.
Humans have already made irremovable alterations to the life forms on this planet. To yell and holler regarding python hybrids in captivity seems useless to me; might as well tell people not to breed mules.

I would have to agree. I my self do not plan to haveHybrida (thanks for the spelling Gin) untill I under stand them more and I would only have them for my personal collection, not for sale.

*sigh* I hate this topic. Before anyone gets into "playing God" mode, hybrids occur naturally quite often, including, hybrids between animals of two different Genus.

I find it especially annoying when this argument comes up and it's designer morph breeders that are claiming that this is some "unnatural evil." Do you realize the majority of us have seen, appreciated, wanted or currently own ball python morphs that have NEVER occurred naturally? I can't stand it when people have this ambiguous line that is drawn somewhere (oh if they are of a different species it's not okay... because I'm sure we all own dogs of a pure bred lineage :p).

As for poluting the gene pool, I don't see that happening. Angolan Balls will have their place, just as burmese, boas, corn snakes and many other snakes manage to thrive in captivity without disappearing. If anything, it will open up a whole new market for AB morphs... and that's okay with me.

what hybrids are crossed betweens two different genuses that occur in the wild?

races aren't subspecies either jessie.;) i know what you mean though.

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Originally Posted by jhall1468

*sigh* I hate this topic. Before anyone gets into "playing God" mode, hybrids occur naturally quite often, including, hybrids between animals of two different Genus.

I find it especially annoying when this argument comes up and it's designer morph breeders that are claiming that this is some "unnatural evil." Do you realize the majority of us have seen, appreciated, wanted or currently own ball python morphs that have NEVER occurred naturally? I can't stand it when people have this ambiguous line that is drawn somewhere (oh if they are of a different species it's not okay... because I'm sure we all own dogs of a pure bred lineage :p).

As for poluting the gene pool, I don't see that happening. Angolan Balls will have their place, just as burmese, boas, corn snakes and many other snakes manage to thrive in captivity without disappearing. If anything, it will open up a whole new market for AB morphs... and that's okay with me.

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I find the AB to be the 2nd most beautiful Ball i have seen yet. so now that i have rubed you alls scales the wrong way (LOL) I think we should close this thread and start one on "how to disect a Barbie, (what you should know about your plastic friend)" LOL j/k.... Im in an odd mood tonight,,, bear with me here :rolleye2: :imslow:

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

WOW!

-adam

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wow what?

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Originally Posted by [u

jessie_k_pythons[/u]]True highbridizing (if i'm wrong please correct me) is when to compleatly different genuses creat a brand new genus? That was what I was told, i want to know if this is true, but I have also heard of what I was told to be Lesser Highbrids. or sub species highbrids.
I could be totaly wrong.

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There are three types of hybrids, interspecific (multi-species hybrid) and intraspecific (sub-species hybrid), The third, is called intergeneric (multi-genera hybrid).

A hybrid animal is nothing more than an animal created by 2 animals where only 1 taxonomic unit differs between the two. So, an interspecific hybrid is as much a hybrid as an intergeneric... and I've never heard the term "lesser hybrid" in my all those biology classes I took :).

that was what my bio teacher called it "lightly" but he was some what of a... well to put it mildy he was wacko!

BTW thank you thank you thank you!! (for the info)

I think the issue with Angolan pythons being crossed into other python species is that Angolan pythons are not as established in captivity as ball pythons and others. There are no new Angolan pythons being imported each year like most other snakes. So instead of breeding Angolan pythons together and raising their numbers in captivity....people cross them with a common animal like a ball python. I just can not understand that logic. For those of you who have never seen an Angolan python in person, these guys blow most other pythons out of the water....why not get their numbers up first....then have all your fun hybridizing?

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Originally Posted by jessie_k_pythons

So far I have found 3 maps that show the wild ranges of bot the ball python and the Angolan python. when both maps are placed on top of one another. the ranges overlap quit a bit at the top part of the angolan range and the bottom tip of the ball range. some of the sits also show photos of "possable wild highbrids" that look nothing like most wild cought ball pythons...

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Do you happen to remember what those sites are? I'd like to take a look at those maps and things myself... Thanks!

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Originally Posted by jessie_k_pythons

from what i have been reading (I frankly like highbrids but that is only my oppion) The Angolan Ball is naturaly accurring in the wild.
sence i have posted this thread I desided to do a little world wide web hunting and found alot of stuff on this "Angolan Ball". So far I have found 3 maps that show the wild ranges of bot the ball python and the Angolan python. when both maps are placed on top of one another. the ranges overlap quit a bit at the top part of the angolan range and the bottom tip of the ball range. some of the sits also show photos of "possable wild highbrids" that look nothing like most wild cought ball pythons.

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Yes, could you please post the URL's or point us to the references where you found these? I've searched for this information before but have never been able to find it.

A friend of mine has a couple of these... Though they are stunning. They are extremely aggressive. Even when just walking by their enclosure (freedom breeder w/ window) these guys started hissing loudly. When their drawer was opened, they coiled like a rattler and then lunged... No wonder they are nicknamed "Angry Balls"!

I will see if i can find them again.It mioght take a day or two. all i reaslly did was google "ball python ranges in the wild" and "Angolan Python ranges in the wild"
then I got brave and typed in to another google search for Angolan Ball Pythons in the wild. and went through several links to find the sites i got my info from. I will try it again.

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Originally Posted by daniel1983

I think the issue with Angolan pythons being crossed into other python species is that Angolan pythons are not as established in captivity as ball pythons and others. There are no new Angolan pythons being imported each year like most other snakes. So instead of breeding Angolan pythons together and raising their numbers in captivity....people cross them with a common animal like a ball python. I just can not understand that logic. For those of you who have never seen an Angolan python in person, these guys blow most other pythons out of the water....why not get their numbers up first....then have all your fun hybridizing?

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Wow, that is a great point.. I didn't even think of that actually but it is completely true and I completely agree.

I would have to agree as well and same here i didnt think of that. :D