my pregnant ratties

okay, i'm 80% sure my rattie girls did get pregnant as their tummys are changing shape. :)

the earliest they should give birth is the 12th of july. :fest2:

so... they live in a very large bird cage and sleep up in hammocks. what do i need to do to get ready for these babies?

i assume they need to be moved to a rubbermaid container so the babies don't escape out of the cage (but the cage is high up on a stand so if the babies climbed thru the bars... i can't imagine them jumping to the ground)

so could they stay in the cage?

what do they need on the bottom other than the usual carefresh i use (both mamas are sensitive to aspen shavings so i prefer to use carefresh for them). should i give them something to hide in? like a cardboard box?

i'd like to keep both mamas together since they get along so well and lived together pretty much their entire lives... but if there's a problem... i have plenty of rubbermaids ventilated on the top at the ready!

they are fed becky's wonderful mix. lots of extras (i spoil them so much) :wuv: i just can't resist their gorgeous faces when they look at me "hey, no snack for me? i'm a goooood girl! :rat: "

so... what can i provide for them?

(i noticed this was not discussed in the FAQ section at the top of this forum)

http://www.timelessspirit.com/images/ratcage.jpg

here's their bird cage home :) you can see becky in the bottom left corner.

(and yes that's a broken hula hoop on the wall behind the cage LOL)

Personally I like to put each of my expectant female rats in her own maternity enclosure. I have a bunch of old 10 gallon tanks that work perfectly for that. I tried to leave two females that got along well together and darn it all one did the majority of the nursing and mothering and the other lazy bones rat laid around much of the time. Seperated them and the lazy mother rat had to mind her babies LOL. Sometimes too the females will tug newborn pinks back and forth between their nest and injure their delicate skin. I like monitoring a female and her own litter seperately too so I can watch for genetic defects or her skill as a breeding/mothering rat.

Lots of folks do leave multiple females in with their litters though so don't just go by the way I do stuff Aleesha. You should get a lot of advice on the ways everyone handles this as we have a pretty good group of rat breeders here with tons of experience.

How many days since the last day the male had access to your females? Are they developing a more pear shaped appearance when standing up? Do their bellies feel kind of hard?

their bellies are feeling hard and yes... the pear shape has started as well. ricardo rodente' came (literally) and left on june 21 - 26.

i can totally seperate them jo... no problem there.

anything special they need in their new home and when should i move them?

I would house them in something else other than that cage after the babies are born...

mom rats love to pile bedding into corners, building them up... babies could spill over and out... and even when they get older, you dont want them finding thier way out through the bars, the drop may be enough to hurt or kill one at worst.

From my experience, babies dont seem to have a good depth perception early on, and may just jump.



Side Note: Ever try putting a rat on a bare glass table? If it has any wood they can get to in the edges or middle, they will walk on that rather than the glass.

i think i'll watch for any nesting behaviour and then move them... so i don't have to disturb them once they birth. ;)

good point jeanne... never thought of the "falling out" aspect!

Actually some won't nest Aleesha until almost the most of birth or less than 24 hours prior to it so you can watch for that or just move them now and let them eat and rest up for the big event. I have a female or two that don't nest build at all until they've given birth. Then they move the pinks to a new spot in the tank and build the nest around them. I have one that stuffs her pinks in the corner of the tank and then builds a retaining wall in front of them LOL. It's so high it usually takes all her bedding to accomplish her engineering feat but let me tell you her babies do NOT leave the nest early!

Just provide a bit extra bedding, extra food and water for the preggie female and they will normally give birth will little muss or fuss and almost no mess at all. I don't know if you've seen this picture before but this is one of my younger females in the middle of actually giving birth to her first litter. Amazing how they can pop all those babies out and leave almost no trace behind that they've just given birth!

Female about 1 week to delivery (litter ended up being 11)...
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...todelivery.jpg

Same female the day before she dropped her litter...
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...ytodeliver.jpg

In the act of giving birth to her first litter....
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...irstlitter.jpg

Pinks about 1 hour old...this is the area she birthed them in...note the amazing cleanup job the mother rats do...11 pinks and barely a spot of blood left on the aspen....(note she later moved them to a nest she constructed across the tank)....
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...than1hrold.jpg

I dont personally dont do rats but,.. I have a question...I started breeding my own mice for convenince(excuse my spelling), and just one question...Should i add some hides or toys? or will they do find with jsut their water bottle and food dish? Should i put one of those tubes so they can chew on or maybe hide in? What do you guys think about those iglos they sell for small animals? are they any good?

Bernie, mice and rats are both sociable, busy, always knawing creatures (like all rodents their teeth grow constantly through their lives) so adding in stuff they can climb and scurry around, through and over or knaw on is never a bad idea. Keeping them busy and occupied gives them other things to do then fuss amongst themselves or plan where to chew and try to destroy their home. If you give them anything, they will chew on it so make sure it's either safe for rodents or hard as all get out (little pieces of plastic not being so good for rodent digestion). We give ours toilet/paper towel tubes and believe it or a not a hugely favored toy is just thin strips from old telephone books. Apparently hours of fun can be had for a rat dragging that thin paper around, shredding it up and stealing it from another rat LOL.

i agree with jo. mice love to have stuff to make a nest under (to sleep in) - i always gave ours igloo type containers, tp rolls, and a wheel. wheels are sooo important for mice... they just love them!

so don't forget a wheel :)

thanks jo. i think i'll move them in a couple of days then... give them time to get used to their new surroundings before they birth.

i'll put in lots of carefresh as well in case they want to build a wall LOL

I have all those thing you guys mentioned. I have one of them chube tubes i got at petsmart as well as an "iglo" hide and a wheel. I only have 6 mice though5females to one male so its not as bad as buying all those toys if i had hundreds of mce like some profesional breeders. So im assuming providing a wheel to all those enclosers is really expensive so it might be out of the question for them. Most the picture i seen from people who breed in large quantaties usually dont have any toys, so i was wondering if that was ok as well?Whne my mice decide to get pregnant should i remove any of these toys/hides? (wheel,tube,igloo hide)?

you can leave all the toys, wheels etc in even with babies. IME the mice are happier with all those things in with them.

:D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by recycling goddess

you can leave all the toys, wheels etc in even with babies. IME the mice are happier with all those things in with them.

:D

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Cool. Thank You

My daughter Beth bought a big wheel figuring the rats would enjoy it. HoneyChild my oldest and best breeding female is a beige hooded. She could never figure out that dang wheel! The other rats would run in it (this was back when they were all too young to start breeding). Poor HC would stand upright behind the wheel and spin it with her front paws. Then she'd balance on one hind foot and spin it with the other foot too. She'd then of course topple over. Occasionally she'd spin the wheel madly and then try to hop in. The wheel would then stop from her sudden weight. Then Honey would simply sit there wondering I guess what the heck happened. So back to spinning the wheel and pondering her rattie life I guess. We just called them HoneyChild's "blonde moments" and tried to not laugh at her too much (I think the other rats who conquered the wheel were though! LOL)

While providing hides can be beneficial Ive found them to actually be a detriment. Rats that I have put in enclosures with hides will often run off and hide when you approach. Where as with no hides they just lounge around wondering what you are doing.


Heres a few that are about 5 days from delivering. This line averages 14 a litter

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ts/pregfem.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...s/pregfem2.jpg

Bryan

Aleesha,


While I'm not in the business like Bryan is, I started breeding our pets when I didn't have the money to buy f/t. The pets started out as snake food but got too big for the snake. We eventually ended up w/3.2, but Petunia ended up frozen, and then we raised a female from Peek's first litter, and we have two 1/2 sisters not quite large enough to breed for the first time.

Peekaboo is nursing her 3rd litter right now. They're in communal cages similar to yours, until about a week before birthing. I move mine BEFORE they start to do the serious nesting so that I'm less likely to upset them, even tho' they're pets and handled every day. I have a 20g tank as one nursery and one of the bigger "First Pet" cages w/a snap on lid as the 2nd. The only difference I've done w/Peek and Peachy, is giving them more ckn pieces or Iams kitten food (free choice) once they've brought forth issue.

Peek has had 11, 7, 11. Peachy's first litter was 13 and I'm waiting to see if she's bred again.

I wouldn't do anything different w/the bedding or care. Just move them to separate nursery cages. That helped me when I had to graft some of Peachy's on to Peek. Peachy was having trouble with so many, so I grafted the skinniest 4 on to Peek. The advice from here for that worked like a dream. :D

Good luck and may you have many baby ratties :rat:


RuLyn

thanks so much! i'll definitely move the girls to their 'birthing chambers' tomorrow... so they have a minimum of 5 days (if they bred the first night) and possibly 10 days in their new homes before birthing.

i'll keep you all posted! with pics of course :wuv:

Great information in the thread, I will just add my experiences:

I always separate the mothers out when they are fat, or if they give birth, to an individual tub. I had several friends insist that keeping 1.3 or 1.5 in a large tub and leaving them in there was the best way to go, but after a little trial, and much error, Ive found moving them out works best for me.

If you have established females that all get along and give birth at ~ the same time, then it can work, but everytime 2 females give birth in a tub for me, I can sit there and watch one hoard all of the babies up, or have them take turns stealing babies, or watch as the rats trample the mother and babies when I open the cage, just not cool.

As for hides, I used to do that when I had just a few rats, but they would tear anything I put in there to shreds within days. Plus I agree with Bryan, hides encourage them to "hide" :)

okay so we did the separation last night and it did not go well.

the ratties were so stressed out and upset. they would not relax and calm down :( at first i wondered if it's because the tank is clear but in a cage they are open to the world so that can't be it.

i put one in a cage with very close bars and the other in a 10 gallon tank... i'm very worried about ventilation and heat as it is summer and it has been very hot here lately (of course not today but up until now LOL)

so last night i moved them back to their normal housing as after about 6 hours they were still very stressed out. (running back and forth and refusing to relax... pushing on the lid and doors to try to get out)

i wonder... should i perhaps try a rubbermaid container? i'm again concerned about the ventilation... but i just don't know what to do. i won't have them stressed like they were yesterday :(

help...

They are first time mothers ... they dont relax as long as any babies are around. This is why I usually take all pinkies from a first time female. By their second litter they are experienced pros.

The first litter is also stressful on the keeper. This is when most problems occur ... baby stealing, attacking cagemates, attacking the keeper, and cannibalism. With 30 new colonies giving birth over the last week and this week I'm fairly stressed. Ive already had one female go ape and kill all the babies in the tub and severly injure 2 of my "good" females.

Best advice I could give is try to cull each litter down to 6-8 and then leave them alone for a few days ... maybe put a dark sheet over most of their enclosure to help them feel more secure.

Bryan

they haven't given birth yet... so that may be a bit tought to do! LOL

Sorry ... I missed that part (blames it on his meds). Since they are going to drop at the same time Id try to leave them together. Put in a few boxes and some paper towels and tissues. Try to make the boxes the same size (one less thing to fight over).


My favorite boxes were the USPS flat rate boxes ... I would fill it full of long shredded paper, tissues, some treats, and paper towels, then close both the top and bottom (folding the flaps works alot better than tape ... they tend to fixate on the tape and it can be harmful). Get out your favorite knife and cut a hole in the side of the box ... you dont want it too big or they dont feel secure ... If its too small they will normally enlarge the hole themselves.

Pregnancy takes alot out of the females ... Once I know they are about to drop I start to give pasta every other day (carbs) or stale bread (more carbs), and chicken/turkey bones and/or boiled egss about once a week.

You should exercise a bit more caution as they get near and within a few days after dropping ... startled moms tend to get a bit crazy ... This is when I receive my worst bites.

Bryan

Sorry I missed your questions Aleesha. Well you have a couple of options. You can leave them together in a large enclosure to give birth together. It may or may not be a good thing. You won't know till they give birth and either do well together or start stealing each others babies and so forth. You can at that point seperate them and simply dole out half the babies to each female (they don't normally care whose babies are whose). Your other option is to seperate them again now.

As far as them running about trying to get out and so forth. It's not really anything to worry about. Don't think like a human, think like a rat. They are checking out a new enclosure, they are going to run about checking it out, kicking up bedding, snooping away madly at every nook and cranny. The more you check on them, the more you will excite them. They will settle in within a day or so. You can leave a few special treats for them in their new enclosure if you like but it's really not harming them to be seperated close to giving birth. They don't like to be alone all that much but if they are ready to deliver soon they will be busy enough with their new litters to not really care in a very short time.

Most of my females, when seperated into their maternity tanks mess about for the first day or so then settle in quite nicely alone. I figure the stress of moving them and leaving them alone is worth the benefit of them getting access to all the food, all the water, all the bedding and no other female rat around to mess with their litters. Plus I like knowing which pups came from which rats in case I see any genetic issues (good or bad).

You can really do it either way though Aleesha. Rats are very hardy creatures that adapt to almost any situation.

I always like to give my expectant ratties each their own 10g tank. I juts think it's less stressful; rats are "nosy neighbors" and if their cagemate is doing anything (including giving birth) they just Have to be all over the place, and I know the birthing is bad enough without another rat nosing in; this is just how I do it. I left 2 moms together once and like Jo saod, one ended up nursing and doing all the work; she got really thin and i ended up splitting them up.!

okay, i'll be tougher this time LOL i'll separate them again today and see how they do. IF they were bred the first night... they should birth tomorrow. becky is huge whereas rosie is smaller in her belly (but rosie was the first to start 'showing') - so this way i can also tell exactly how many babies they each have.

thanks so much everyone... i appreciate your support. this isn't nearly as simple as i thought it would be.

LOL it is simple hon, rats have been breeding and dropping litters long before we existed and will do so long after we are gone and doing in under trying circumstances and thriving the whole time! You're just worrying and overthinking it a bit but that's normal the first time you breed any creature and just shows you care.

Pop your females in their maternity enclosures and give them a little treat of bread and olive oil (just a bit though) then let them settle in. You'll usually see nest building activities just prior to birthing (within 24 hours) but some don't do that. They just birth then build the nest and relocate the pups. Each to their own, they usually know instinctively what to do.

While they are birthing you can quietly observe (heck I've quietly snapped photo's of one birthing). Just don't hover or fuss near them, they rarely have birthing issues. Experienced female breeders don't care much whose around LOL. If a pup or two is lost, that's normal and the female will likely eat it and you'll never even know it happened. They clean up all afterbirth and are one of the cleanest birthing animals I've ever seen. If any don't make it sometimes the females will just kick them away, so once the birthing is over just very quietly remove the dead pink then...not during the actual birthing of the litter.

We of course wants pics of your litters (that's just a given around this place LOL)

okay they are in their birthing chambers LOL and i'm about to make them up their weekly olive oil and bread... and i've closed the door (that way i won't be fretting about them LOL)

and i'm leaving them alone!!!

thanks so much everyone hopefully there will be some nice sized litters to take pics of sooooon :wuv:

Rats are very social, and I try to leave my females in with their general "gang" until they are very fat. Sometimes I will put two "fatties" in a maternity tub together to hang out with each other until one gives birth, and then switch them, but I also have all the maternity tubs near each other too..


Ive found that most of my females dont mind being separated the last few days before they give birth. They build a nest without having to worry about big Bubba stomping through and wrecking it, or sleeping in it, and once they have their babies I think that becomes the overwhelming focus for them.

so they were NOT preggers... so ricardo rodente has returned... for a nice long visit! he's staying for three weeks this time... guaranteed to make some babies... if they don't, then i know he's a dud LOL

Well dang Ricardo didn't do his jobbie! You know it took us a three males to get a decent stud. First male seemed to be infertile (or else bad at it and the females just kicked him away), the next male did the job but was awfully rough on our females, almost biting them enough to require stitches (he got to meet the big BCI real fast). Casanova was our third male and he's done extremely well and with the purchase of Frankie the American Blue, Nova is now Stud Emeritus. lol

Your females should cycle every 5 or 6 days so make sure he's there for a few cycles just to make sure he's done the trick this time.

well i sure hope ricardo doesn't turn out to be a dud... that would suck. i really don't want to have to care full time for a male... as the two females are enough for us... (which is why we have sleep overs with my friends male rattie) - so here's hoping! *fingers crossed*

well no more breeding for us. ricardo got beaten up pretty bad today... lots of blood in the cage ;(

so i've moved him to a different cage so he's safe and we are just going to buy our feeders.

thanks everyone for all the info i've learned on this... but i won't be using it!

poor ricardo!

Oh dear! I've never had my females go after a male like that. A bit of scuffling, squeeking and boxing but nothing horribly serious. Poor Ricardo! Maybe because he's not part of their colony they see him as an intruder that smells different or something. Will he be okay?

Hehe, Ricardo tried to get fresh apparently :)


How bad was it? Just a bite mark here or there? Sometimes guys just can't take a hint, hope he is ok.

I wonder if you put a pile of the females used bedding in with a strange male so he sort of smelled familar if that would cut down on aggression or put each female alone with him in a cage he'd been in for a few days (his territory) if that would avoid the females ganging up on him. I always rotate my females into my breeder males home cage in pairs and it's never been a problem but then they must know his smell somewhat...he lives downstairs from them in the rat colony rack. (poor guy has the "basement apartment" lol).

I've had problems in the past with a breeder male being overly aggressive but never with my females hurting my males. Course with the size of Casanova not many of the females would dare LOL but Frankie is a much smaller male and his first breeding seems to have gone well. Frankie did his thing, Stubby the female continued to eat her dinner (apparently less than impressed with the whole deal LOL....poor Frankie).

it's his foot... turns out once we got him cleaned up his toes was bleeding like crazy.

i'm not sure what i'll do at this point... i'll discuss it with his owner before i do anything more.