New owner, kinda long....

Hello everyone- I like this site here so I thought I would introduce myself. Just became and owner of a little ball python 3 days ago. My dauther (who is 7) and I have been interested in pythons and have been doing some research decided to get a ball a couple of days ago (IE wife finally caved in!) Anyway I have done some research on this but I'm sure not nearly enough. So her is the set up I have so far if you'll bare with me, I want to be sure I am doing this right.
I am using a 44 gallon tall tank with dimensions approx 2'x2'x3.5'. For substrate I am using zoo med compressed coconut stuff. I have a 1/2 log for a hide, large rock looking water bowl, rock with fake plants and a platform I built out of pine with moss attached to shelf and legs in the corner. Since this pet and tank are for all of us it sits in a quiet corner of our living room so I wanted it to look nice and natural. for heat I a using a medium zoo med UTH on one side of the tank where her hide sits. above the tank I am using a basking light (150w) and so far able to keep the temps 90-93 degrees. Night time I am using a 75w night light with temps in mid 80's. I feel I will need to up the heat at night. Humidity has been easy to controll and sits right around 65%. Due to being new we havent tried to feed her yet and I am only handling her for short periods of time during once a day.
So from the sounds of it am I on the right track here? I am thinking about adding more UTH for night time but not sure quite what to do about this. Its kinda funny i read alot about this prior to getting her, but that all seems to have gone out the window once i got here home. So any suggestions would be very welocme, I want to make sure I have a very healthy happy pet for many years.
thanks

Welcome to BP.net!

Be sure to read our caresheets on Ball pythons, which is here: http://ball-pythons.net/modules.php?...warticle&id=52

There a couple things about your setup which may cause problems:
1. The tank is pretty darn big for a baby.
BPs, especially babies, may feel uncomfortable is large spaces, may lead to stress. Here is a recent thread on this: http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=32515

2. The ambient temperature is too high.
You want the ambient temperature, measured near the substrate where the snake will spend most of her time, to be 82-83 degrees. How you are measuring the temperature and humidity? Most folks here will recommend you use a digital thermometer/hygrometer, usually readily available from Wal-Mart or your local big chain pet store (Flukers, for example, has a decent dual digital thermometer/hygrometer).

You can just have the temperature stay pretty much constant, day or night. From what I understand, breeders may have a yearly temperature shift to help get the snakes in season to breed, but general pet owners don't need to worry about it.

3. The humidity is a bit too high.
You want the humidity to be about 50-60% generally and then bump it up a bit (70-80%) when the snake is in shed. Too high a humidity, especially with paired with low temperatures (60-70's) can lead to health problems, such as respitory infection.

4. Heat light bulbs are generally frowned on.
Heat light bulbs generally are not recommended because they dry out the air, reducing the humidity (although that doesn't sound like a problem for you currently). For my glass tank, I use ceramic heat emitters (or CHE), placed directly over my snake's water dish. The CHE emits heat, but no light, slightly reducing the amount of moisture dried out of the air, while warming the surface of the snake's water bowl, which serves as a dual purpose of providing water for my snake to drink, as well as cause evoporation for the ambient humidity.

5. Are you using thermostats to regulate the UTH and/or the heat bulb?
Most folks here will also recommend providing two identical hides and regulate the belly temperatures for both, one a "warm" spot set to 92-ish and one a "cool" spot, set to 82-ish. Ball pythons will thermoregulate or move to the temperature area they need (warm up or cool down), but if the two spots are different, i.e., they have different hides, your snake will most likely choose security over the right temperature. By having 2 hides the same, your snake won't have to make that choice and will go for the temperature she needs.

Gah, gotta run...

it sounds to me like your day time temp is in the 90's and night time is in the 80's. What u need is one side of the cage to be 92 - 94 and the other side 82 - 84. and there shouldnt be a night time drop in temp. u also should have 2 hides. one on the hot side and one on the cool side. U may have trouble heating a 40 g tall tank. I tried to get the right temp gradient in a tall 30 g tank and gave up after a couple days of trial runs. If i were u, ditch the aquarium even though it looks nice, and get a rubbermaid. Welcome to the site, there is loads of info on here. injoy.:)

sounds like you off to a good start, i would provide more hides for the snake. make sure no part of the cage goes under 80deg. when using heating sources always use a thermostat to control temps and keep things in check. there is a good caresheet on this site and alot of posts on cage setups. oh and :welcome:



vaughn

Sorry, hehe...

Anywho, here's a picture of how I have my cages setup. Feel free to have a look at the description of how they are setup in the Viv Guide my fiance wrote (link in my sig):

http://www.onlinethingy.com/files/gr...opic13_big.jpg

Thanks for the replys, looks like I have alot of work to do-
1. Ok i understand the tank is to big, unfortunatly that is what I will be stuck with for a while. To help maintain temps I can insulate 2 sides of the tank which should help.

2. As far as air temp I bought a dial temp and humididty guage at pet store (I will upgrade to digital soon), I have them place about 4" above the substrate under the heat side of the tank. I dont plan on breeding so I will work on having a constant temp.

3. As far as humidity goes I can adjust that pretty easily, I live ina pretty wet/humid enviorment to begin with and can also make slight adjustments

4. Heating/lighting- Well here is where I get really confused, I have read that basking lights are the way to go, then read only UTH should be used..... So here is where I will really have to figure out what I need to do. So I could go with a ceramic light and leave on 24 hours a day, what about lighting? Use a flouresant UV bulb? Or would it be easier to add more UTH put both on some type of thermostat and do all my heat adjustment there? Kinda confused about this one.

Oh yes will add in a 2nd hide as well. Also great looking tank cassandra!
Well tomorrow I am off of work so I will start playing with temps and see what I come up with.

One option you could go with, that is not too expensive, would be to buy a smaller Rubbermaid and use that for awhile. If you're dead set on using the tank, you cuold put it into storage until your snake grows into it; the smaller r-maid will make it a more secure and less huge environment for your little guy. I am not syaing tanks can't work; I use them, but it takes awhile to get temps right in them (the larger they are, thr tougher.) You could go out and get a r-maid cheaply; if you're interested in this, I can offer a little more advice (lid closure, etc.) I have (hopefully) a BP hatchling on the way and though I "tank" my other BPs, he will be going into an r-maid.

Welcome to BPNet, glad you've joined us and it's wonderful you and your daughter (and hopefully soon your wife) are entering the wonderful world of snake keeping. Ball Pythons make a great first snake with, as you've seen, some tweeking of their environment.


My only addition to the great advice you've gotten so far is to not spend a fortune on a fancy digital device. Just head over to WalMart (or Lowe's or Home Depot) and grab an Acu-Rite. They are in the outdoor thermometer area and retail for around $11.00 plus 1 AAA battery. Lowe's and Home Depot sell a similar product but under a different brand name. Just pop the actual unit in the cooler end of the enclosure (velcro it if you want but NO tape please near snakes)....then run the probe on it's long thing cord over to the warmer end and just tuck it into a hide over there (you can bury the cord or run it out and then back into the enclosure).

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...8/Acu-Rite.jpg

Also when you are adding addition hides think barely bigger than your baby snake curled up, dark, easy to clean...doesn't have to be anything fancy or expensive...here's one of our bigger females in her hide. It's just a big heavy rubber dog dish flipped over and an entrance hole cut in but the snakes love them!

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...irseinHide.jpg

Please feel free to ask tons of questions. Everyone was new to this hobby at some time or other so don't feel shy about asking for help or direction for your own research into the care of those wonderful creatures. :)

Thank you all for the great information.

Ginevive- I will consider using the r-maid box, might be the way to go. I measured Sally and she is about 24" long, About the length of one side of my tank. I'm not quite ready give up on my tank yet but if you have the time Iwould liketo hear some more info on you r-maid ideas, email or PM me if you like.

Franky- That is what I will get tomorrow. So I think what I am getting confused is that I need my ground temp to be 90-92 in the hot and 85 or so in the cool area, not the ambient air temp, is this right? Also I will ditch the 1/2 log due to its size and get 2 smaller terra cotta pots and put in different heat zones.

Will this cause increase stress in my snake chainging things around like this so soon in her new tank?

She may get stressed at first, but once everything is at the right temps and she has places to hide, she'll be fine.

One thing nobody mentioned is the pine platform...pine is toxic to snakes, it emits vapors that give them nasty respiratory infections.

I used to have my guys in tanks before switching to a rack system. I used the same substrate you do (I love it, it holds humidity great...just make sure it isn't too damp). I also used a UTH on one side with a 75w red bulb over it...this kept the warm spot at 90 degress and the ambient/cool side automatically at 80-82. They were plugged into a ReptiTemp 500R thermostat to keep them at the desired temp. I used an ESU digital thermometer to measure the warm side -- the probe was placed directly over the heat pad and under the lamp. I also used a Fluker's digital thermometer/hygrometer combo stuck to the wall in the back about 3-4 inches up from the substrate to measure humidity and ambient temp. The best thing about the red light bulb was that it kept the heat where it should be without disturbing the snake's day/night cycle and still allowed me to see everything at night. To keep heat and humidity in, I covered 3/4 of the screen top with 3 layers of tinfoil and 2 layers of duct tape. Worked like a charm.

I used the same setup for my boa and I made a thread about it here:

http://www.forgottenfriend.org/forum...opic.php?t=642

It describes everything better and has pics if that would help you. Congrats on the new baby!

If you decide you want to give plastic a try - give a holler! Many of us use plastic and have tons of pictures. I've got pictures for my baby set ups and my yearling and adult set ups that I'm happy to share!

I started in a glass viv with my first - it now houses mice and all the scale babies are in plastic tubs or a rack. Even if I scaled back (no pun intended - well, maybe it is) to just one ball python - I'd still choose my plastic tub over the glass viv any day! LOL

Congrats on your new baby and welcome! It looks like everyone's got you well covered!

Out with the shelf, did not know that about pine. Would cedar work? Looks like I am off to do some shopping today. Plan spending the day getting temps set just right. Let you all know how it goes.

Cedar is just as toxic, I wouldn't use it. That's why the only wood substrate you can use is aspen and cypress. Your best bet for a shelf or any cage decorations is hard plastic like the rock bowl. It's much easier to clean too. :)

gotcha, thank you.

So went and got the shopping done and got everything set up in the tank, so here is what I did. Bought 2 digital thermometers and placed probes on the cool side and warm side of tank in the substrate. Then added a 2nd larger UTH with the zoo med thermostat on the warm side with the probe in the substrate near the thermometer. Added a dimmer slide to the smaller UTH to controll that heat. Dumped the 1/2 log and added 2 6" terra cotta pots, one over each heat pad. Kinda messed up the openings and may have made them to big though. SO as of right now I have temps of 91.5 in the warm side, 85.5 on cool side with ambient air temp of 75-80 degrees depending on where I put the thermometer. Humidity is 70% so will have to adjust that.

So got all that done and went to get Sally and she was not happy being in her feed box while I was working on her tank, hissed at me while trying to pick her up. Must be pretty stressed. SO put her back in her tank and will keep things quiet around her for the next couple of days. Hopefully after that will try to get her to eat.

Sounds great! And yes, she's probably just a little stressed...give her a few days to relax before handling or trying to feed her. =)

Good stuff. Since it's a large tank, I would also advice adding more fake plants to try and fill up the space. More clean up work for you, but will defenitely make the baby feel safer. :)

Sounds good. Give her a good week of no fussing at all other than a quick water change and a peek for feces or urates but no handling or such. She needs time to get to know her new home and feel safe in it before she'll likely want to eat. Remember when a snake eats they are terribly vulnerable to being preyed on themselves so if they don't feel safe they are just likely to refuse to take prey.

Good info everybody, yes I will definatly leave her be for the next week and try feeding then. I have added a couple plants and will later add some drift wood for climbing, I know they dont climb a whole lot but need to add something to that space. If I can figure it out will try to get some pics of my setup tomorrow.

Zrock, IMO, you don't have to ditch the tank. Just pur multiple appriopriate-sized hides in there (like three or four) to make her feel more secure. I'm sure everyone else has already given you great advice regarding everything else.:) And Cass, LOVE the numbered diagram!!!! but.....does Cleo really need that hydrometer??? I didn't think BPs liked ocean water....:P